51 replies to this topic

[NotKjell]

So at least on US west team-based game type servers, there seems to be a trend I noticed towards the end of CBE 1 too. It seems like every good player I recognize, and the only players able to put up a fight are people also running infiltrators with the HEAT cannon. At this rate I'm going to guess any e-sport scene would be 6 infiltrators vs. 6 infiltrator (or whatever team size is).

I don't have anything against the A-class, grenade launcher or HEAT cannon individually. I just don't believe all 3 belong together, particularly HEAT on an A-class. Here is a long-ass post I made on the CBE1 discussion board on my thoughts.

http://community.pla...__40#entry81593

The TL;DR version though is HEAT+GL have DPS comparable to any other high-DPS combination. However they front-load all there damage, leading to unmatched short-term DPS. This also means they only need line-of-sight every 2-3 seconds to land 100% of their DPS and the A-class mech speed is beyond fantastic for breaking line-of-sight. The combination is also the most versatile in the game honestly, being able to deal damage or deny space in ways a bullet could only dream of.

HEAT is fun and I love playing the Infiltrator with it, but I can admit it's a tier above everything else. The fix is fortunately simple, don't give the HEAT in particular to an A-class. A non-sucky version of the mini-flak might be a nice choice.

[Toryne]

Due to NDA i cant talk about Alpha 1 and Alpha 2 Changes from Infiltrator. However I can tell you this is something the Devs do know about and the Infiltrator Class has been discussed at length with them on Balancing. I really do wish i could discuss the changes.

[NotKjell]

Alright, that's at least good to hear. I do remember you from alpha, but I guessed I missed anything the devs said on the balance of the infiltrator.

[Silk_Sk]

I'm one of those infiltrators. But the main strength, I think, comes from speed. I put almost all of my buffs into making my infiltrator as fast as possible. As long as I have that, it doesn't matter if I have a heat cannon, flak cannon, an assault rifle or whatever else they decide to equip it with. Just try and catch me. Still, I do tend to prefer the heat cannon, even if it is difficult to aim properly when I'm zipping back and forth. I like it because it doesn't overheat very easily, which can't really be said for most of the weapons.

[England]

Toryne, on November 08 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Due to NDA i cant talk about Alpha 1 and Alpha 2 Changes from Infiltrator. However I can tell you this is something the Devs do know about and the Infiltrator Class has been discussed at length with them on Balancing. I really do wish i could discuss the changes.

Sorry, but I was under the impression that there was no NDA on this Beta_ At least that's what I read when I got into it.

[NotKjell]

England, on November 08 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Toryne, on November 08 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Due to NDA i cant talk about Alpha 1 and Alpha 2 Changes from Infiltrator. However I can tell you this is something the Devs do know about and the Infiltrator Class has been discussed at length with them on Balancing. I really do wish i could discuss the changes.

Sorry, but I was under the impression that there was no NDA on this Beta_ At least that's what I read when I got into it.

There is no NDA on the closed BETA 1 or 2. However anyone who played during the ALPHA stages of this game is still under an NDA for anything from that period of time.

[FenixStryk]

The Infiltrator is a powerful chassis, and Heat/GL is strong in general for the reasons you described (high front-loaded damage), but it's not unrivaled. Vulcan Assaults are on their level (I'd argue higher) and Flak Brawlers are not to be underestimated either. The main reason you see most MVPs piloting Infiltrators is because it's really the only choice if you want to play an A class. The Berserker, while strong, lacks the versatility and burst potential that the Infiltrator provides.

The only change I'd recommend to the Infiltrator is that its base weapon selection be switched to Mini-Flak/GL with AR and EOC as alternates. Like the Flak Cannon and Vulcan, the Heat Cannon does not belong on an A class.

Edited by FenixStryk, November 08 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[Toryne]

NotKjell, on November 08 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

Alright, that's at least good to hear. I do remember you from alpha, but I guessed I missed anything the devs said on the balance of the infiltrator.

All I can say there's been a reason behind the Infiltrator changes from alpha Something I've had a few conversations with dev's with it was mentioned. But again NDA

[Immie]

The only thing I really think is busted is how infiltrator has the potential to benefit much more from optimizations/internals than any other mech. By this I mean: The + 75 HP optimization is a significantly larger percentage of extra HP than if you were to take it on any other class... also, the internal that gives a 0.5 second faster secondary cooldown is much more effective when paired with the grenade launcher's lower cooldown. Basically, internals need reworking.

That said, I have no problem defeating infiltrators with assault/brawler, also I know a guy who swears by his berserker and will clobber most infiltrators running around right now.

[Saunders]

Immie, on November 08 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

The only thing I really think is busted is how infiltrator has the potential to benefit much more from optimizations/internals than any other mech. By this I mean: The + 75 HP optimization is a significantly larger percentage of extra HP than if you were to take it on any other class... also, the internal that gives a 0.5 second faster secondary cooldown is much more effective when paired with the grenade launcher's lower cooldown. Basically, internals need reworking.

That said, I have no problem defeating infiltrators with assault/brawler, also I know a guy who swears by his berserker and will clobber most infiltrators running around right now.

You'll see a lot of changes to how we approach optimizations between now and open beta and in the month or two after

[D20Face]

Saunders, on November 08 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

You'll see a lot of changes to how we approach optimizations between now and open beta and in the month or two after

News I am thrilled to hear.

[Deu]

I hate the infiltrator and refuse to use it ever.

[killyg]

Immie, on November 08 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

The only thing I really think is busted is how infiltrator has the potential to benefit much more from optimizations/internals than any other mech. By this I mean: The + 75 HP optimization is a significantly larger percentage of extra HP than if you were to take it on any other class... also, the internal that gives a 0.5 second faster secondary cooldown is much more effective when paired with the grenade launcher's lower cooldown. Basically, internals need reworking.

That said, I have no problem defeating infiltrators with assault/brawler, also I know a guy who swears by his berserker and will clobber most infiltrators running around right now.

I'm actually quite curious on people's strategies against infiltrator as an assault.

Thus far I haven't been able to come up with a good plan to 1v1 competent infiltrators other than run away.  Not saying assault is bad by any means, but just that I personally haven't had much luck against infiltrators unless I catch him in the open.  If I chase I lose for sure, if I don't chase then I lose the peek-a-boo game.

EDIT: Urvanis I see you lurking this thread, I'm specifically talking about 1v1'ing you =P

Edited by killyg, November 08 2012 - 08:50 PM.

[Cyclonus]

Nah, I think the heat cannon belongs on the infiltrator. You have to know how to use it to use it effectively and it's a not impossible to defeat a heat cannon, specially when it's priming. Maybe I'm just biased though.

[NotKjell]

Yes, a HEAT infiltrator is beatable. Overpowered doesn't mean invincible though. There are many other powerful mechs, Vulcan assault and flak brawlers in particular. Sharpshooters are good at what they do, berserkers are useful etc. The issue is versatility and really lack of a counter. It's like old Street Fighter 4 Sagat



This is a fighting game tier list. For those not familiar, they are generally compiled from tournament results. The numbers mean out of ten matches, the character on the left generally beats the character the top that may times. You may notice that Sagat is regarded as having no less than a '5' in any matchup. In the hawken sense, you can replace the characters with various loadouts/engagement locations/ranges etc.

And I feel infiltrator doesn't really have less than a '5' anywhere. Sure other 'top tier' loadouts could fight even with a HEAT infiltrator in various situations, but in return they have weaknesses. Infiltrator at worst generally fights even, while so often fighting with a noticeable advantage.

[killyg]

TIGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH

DESTRUKSHUN!!!

[nonsiccus]

As an infiltrator, I agree whole-heartedly with NotKjell.

As an infiltrator, you don't die to your counter because you have more than enough mobility to simply run. I think that sums up everything since skill and balancing doesn't matter a whole lot when your adversary can just flee.

[MVRS]

I hope balancing will be better come december.

Still loads of fun for a beta thou~ ^^

[JustJake]

nonsiccus, on November 08 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

As an infiltrator, I agree whole-heartedly with NotKjell.

As an infiltrator, you don't die to your counter because you have more than enough mobility to simply run. I think that sums up everything since skill and balancing doesn't matter a whole lot when your adversary can just flee.

This is frustrating for me as a melee-range sharpshooter player. I get a couple good bursts on a infiltrator and dodge their nades and HEAT rounds, then they just jet off with like 100 health left and are half-healed by the time I catch up with them. I'm always disapointed in myself when I rambo after them and get killed by their team.

Wait, maybe this is an issue with checks and balances or something.

[Thygon]

Have to say after couple of hours gaming today, that I've seen some nice wolfpack hunt againts infiltrators.

And at aftermath they are equal to others or so.