26 replies to this topic

[D20Face]

I just went 29/5 on a map I've never played. I am not that good.

I have a level 14 infiltrator and I am being pitted against level 0s-6s.

Levels and internals don't matter_ Bull fuzzy bunny fuzzy bunny.

620 health, double health regen, insane radar and a full set of consumables. It's not fun for me, it's not fun for them. What's more, if I choose to do the right thing and disable all that fuzzy bunny some other guy will walk in and trounce almost as hard as I was.

Hawken is fun when everybody is chugging around being awesome. It's not fun when there are SEVERE differences is mech potential. This isn't even a balancing issue, it's a flaw in the model. If everybody had internals, consumables, and the optimizations from the getgo I wouldn't be stuck in servers where none of the little nooblets stood a chance. I could probably kill them without the help, but it's easier than shooting fish in a barrel FILLED TO THE BRIM with fish right now.

"Oh, it'll even out eventually and it doesn't take that long to level"

Who would stick around for the 10+ hours it takes to get the equipment when they do nothing but join servers full of people who have hit the cap_ Who will want to buy new mechs knowing they have to spend 10 hours in a piece of fuzzy bunny because you can't buy levels no matter what_

When the game is released everybody is going to be trounced by the tryhards that get to level 20 off the bat. Everybody will feel what it's like to be crushed under the insurmountable foot of a level 20 infiltrator(or anything else for that matter, A classes just get the biggest boost from health and repair upgrades).

Some guy even complimented me today and I felt really, really, bad about it. That isn't good because it honestly feels like I'm cheating.

[Gestankfaust]

Quote

Who would stick around for the 10+ hours it takes to get the equipment

I would...but I'm a glutton for punishment....

Edited by Gestankfaust, November 08 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[Rooslin]

with such a limited pool of players your going to get large skill differences in servers and matchmaking wont be able to balance games well

[TheAriDee]

Finally! Someone else gets it. And i thought it was just me being KSed non stop by light mechs.

I mean i know how to play. I am very competitive and very intuitive when it comes to new FPS so i know it couldn't just me being a horrible noob.

[z121231211]

I think they got even more new people in for CB2. Not many people are that experienced with the game, if at all, so there's going to be some obvious balance issues at this low level of play. Wait a few days before feeling bad about anything.

Also, good job on creating a rage topic and actually including capitalization!

Edited by z121231211, November 08 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[FenixStryk]

I would spend the time grinding it out, but I agree that a stock Mech is gimped compared to one that's fully equipped. IMO, a base chassis should come pre-equipped with basic internals (Magnetic Rail, Armor, Fuel Canisters) that can be swapped out for better, more specific ones (Repair Kit, Thrusters, etc.) once they get the Hawken Points.

Optimizations in general need to be reworked since a few of them are way, way overbudget and don't scale as well for B and C chassis (looking at you, Increase Armor +75).

[Saunders]

If you want more balanced games don't use the server browser.  The matchmaker should put you in something a little closer to your skill level, but that's something we're continuously working on.  You'll see it get a lot better in the next few months also   Generally, we never want noobs to get owned.



You'll see a TON of changes to balance between closed beta 2 and closed beta 3.  And when I say a ton I mean a WHOLE TON.  Like, everything.

Right now we're not happy with the way leveling works either.  Getting pwned by a level 20 mech isn't fun, and there's currently a pretty large difference in pure number boosts between a level 1 and a level 20 mech.  Over the next few months we'll be rolling out changes to make that feel better, with the goal of changing up the way internals, weapon levels, and optimizations work very shortly after our open beta.

Overall this community has had awesome suggestions, many of which we've taken to heart  ;D  Expect to see some awesomenss soon all generally less fuzzy bunny fuzz.

~Saunders

[Cinj]

As a new player, even I noticed this trend. Early on while I was still trying to get my barings, I didn't purchase any equipment or optimizations, but once I came to grips with the game I started decking my mech out and the difference was night and day. I went from being the one being trounced to the one doing the trouncing.

MP seemed to save the day, but the large number of HP needed combined with the relative slowness at acquiring said points means that the average player will be busy fighting an uphill battle once the game is released. As similarly stated by the OP, the only way non-paying people are gonna stand a chance is tryhard like hell to stay ahead of the kids with mommy and daddy's credit card.

This is exactly what people talk about when they discuss games being pay2win. You can stand inside your bubble of ignorance and flame me all you want but the fact remains that if people with better stuff have the upper hand and people who pay can get it quick and easy while everyone else has to spend hours grinding, then those are hours where the player is at a disadvantage and most likely not having much fun. Hence, pay2win.

I stopped playing Blacklight Retribution for similar reasons. I'm loving the game so far, but I can only hope pay2win doesn't creep in and leave a sour taste in my mouth.

I know the topic was more about levels than equipment, but I think it's every bit as important.

Edited by Cinj, November 08 2012 - 06:59 PM.

[Saunders]

One of the biggest things we're testing during these closed beta tests is the rate at which players progress.  

We also agree that getting HP is still too slow.  For closed beta 2 we just did a straight 2x increase over CB1, but you'll see some other adjustments and new systems for closed beta 3 and beyond

[Gestankfaust]

I am VERY new(. I hafta agree with Saunders about the browser. Maybe after launch and much more experience I can use that. Now...well I just have fun and know I'm being outmatched. The matchmaker is better though.

My only gripe so far is how ppl group up on Deathmatch. I watched three mechs position themselves for anyone who dared come close....multiple times. But that's just a morality issue.

[D20Face]

Saunders, on November 08 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Awesome post

~Saunders

I love you in the absolute creepiest way possible.

I may or may not be collecting your used chewing gum and creating a shrine in my closet as we speak.

[Saer]

Completely agree with all points touched upon, I just played my third game and must say its no fun playing against

Saunders, on November 08 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

If you want more balanced games don't use the server browser.  The matchmaker should put you in something a little closer to your skill level, but that's something we're continuously working on.  You'll see it get a lot better in the next few months also   Generally, we never want noobs to get owned.



You'll see a TON of changes to balance between closed beta 2 and closed beta 3.  And when I say a ton I mean a WHOLE TON.  Like, everything.

Right now we're not happy with the way leveling works either.  Getting pwned by a level 20 mech isn't fun, and there's currently a pretty large difference in pure number boosts between a level 1 and a level 20 mech.  Over the next few months we'll be rolling out changes to make that feel better, with the goal of changing up the way internals, weapon levels, and optimizations work very shortly after our open beta.

Overall this community has had awesome suggestions, many of which we've taken to heart  ;D  Expect to see some awesomenss soon all generally less fuzzy bunny fuzz.

~Saunders

EXTREMELY happy to hear this as I've just finished my third game and well, although I wrecked face, I didn't really have fun playing against less experienced pilots. I'll definitely try the match maker, in hopes of finding a more level playing field!

[Cinj]

Saunders, on November 08 2012 - 07:03 PM, said:

One of the biggest things we're testing during these closed beta tests is the rate at which players progress.  

We also agree that getting HP is still too slow.  For closed beta 2 we just did a straight 2x increase over CB1, but you'll see some other adjustments and new systems for closed beta 3 and beyond

I didn't mean to come off hostile or anything, but yes, I am looking forward to improvements in that regard. As I said, I really love the game so far, and nothing turns off a new player faster than a game not being fun because other people have a decisive advantage in ways that are not based on the player's skill. I've been burned by other free to play games in the past, but I have high hopes for Hawken.

[vince]

D20Face, on November 08 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

Bull fuzzy bunny fuzzy bunny.

Lol.

But seriously, when I started I got trounced maybe one game, and then fully loaded out my mech. I don't think the disparity is as large as you are claiming, but I do believe that being lvl 20 does provide a noticeable advantage. That is overcome with tactics and precision, however.

[Gestankfaust]

vince, on November 08 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

D20Face, on November 08 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

Bull fuzzy bunny fuzzy bunny.

Lol.

But seriously, when I started I got trounced maybe one game, and then fully loaded out my mech. I don't think the disparity is as large as you are claiming, but I do believe that being lvl 20 does provide a noticeable advantage. That is overcome with tactics and precision, however.

"loaded out my mech"

Huh_

[Elix]

If you don't go into the shop and kit out your mech with the Meteor Points you got as a head-start for the closed beta test, you're at a significant disadvantage against people who have.

Edit: "meck" -- can't believe I made that typo

Edited by Elix, November 08 2012 - 10:06 PM.

[Gestankfaust]

Elix, on November 08 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

If you don't go into the shop and kit out your meck with the Meteor Points you got as a head-start for the closed beta test, you're at a significant disadvantage against people who have.

I think I missed this. All I was able to do was make the different parts "look different". Or buy a new mech styel. That's how I got it...but....

Maybe this is one way that needs improvement for greens like me_

[Elix]

The body shop just changes the visual style. However, on the Equipped screen, you can purchase internals that give you HP boosts, or increase your damage resistance, or your speed, or your boost recharge, etc. You can also purchase alternate utility items (EMP, radar scrambler, HE grenades, etc.) to use instead of the stock setup.

[h00n]

Well, this topic explains everything.

I've played FPS in the competative for a few years now. I've not been in the real fight for a long time, but the skills don't fade.

I shoot first, I don't miss, I lose anyway. Left me scratching my head, I didn't quite understand it, but now I do.

[AsianJoyKiller]

I dunno.

I started off today as a Lvl. 2 Infiltrator, and Deu was the only 20 giving me trouble on a regular basis. I've was holding my own in most cases even though my mech wasn't optimized beyond internals and 3 points.

On the other hand, now I'm around 12 or so and my survivability is getting a bit ridiculous (I'm specced for mobility and health).