35 replies to this topic

[RavenSol]

tripple the health on all mechs if not even more  doing this will make combat longer and thus more fun atm you die so fast  it feels like your standard fps.  You have to set it apart  from the crowd  making it take more then a few seconds to kill  a mech  will give a better illusion of  future mech combat. The mech should feel tough right now they feel squishy.  Think of it this way if your the comander of a army and a guy says hey i got these  giant combat mechs  wana try them  of course you say heck ya  lets see them.  Then you see them die after only a few seconds  would you really want to buy them and put your troops in them __

[Rooslin]

mech wise the current way it is, is separate from the crowd considering most other mech games are slow paced and long fights

i like it the way it currently is and that is the reason I'm here and not playing mech warrior online

Edited by Rooslin, November 09 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Elix]

The life expectancy of a Hawken mech can be quite high (okay, perhaps not in free-for-all deathmatch against evenly-matched-or-better-equipped mechs) if you play strategically. Especially in team game modes, situational awareness is very important, and so is being able to dodge and run away.

If you play like a kamikaze berserker because that's what works in Counter-Strike or Modern Warfare 3, you're going to spend a lot of time waiting to respawn.

[RavenSol]

i'm not saying to change anything else  just the health of the mechs  to make combat longer  that's it  atm  it's just your typical fps. I don't want to slow down the combat  i want to play a mech game that is fast n furious.  I have played mwo alot  and no i dont want this to turn into that at all. mwo gives you a really good feel of  "giant" mech  warfare  this game isn't about giant mechs it's about  very small very nimble mech suits.  The problem i am seeing is you don't get that feeling of being in a fast nimble mech you feel more  like big personal sorta armored squishy suit and in my mind it is ruining the emursion of the game and doesn't make it stand out from the tons of other fps games already out. My idea of increasing the health of the mech to give you a longer enounter would set it apart without changing anything  that makes this game fun.

[Elix]

Despite getting 5fps frequently during the most intense parts of the fight, I managed to land a couple double kills in deathmatch on Sahara at the beginning of CBT2 without having to run away and repair. (I didn't get the chance!)

How_ I made sure that I was as agile and nimble as my bunnyfuzz of a computer would let me be, with side-boosts to dodge left and right and generally be unpredictable. The opponents I got kill streaks (of 2, 3 at the best--I'm not bragging) on were players who did not move around fast enough and let me keep a bead on them. This was plenty fast, and I came out on top. Badly wounded, but that's when I grabbed the heal orbs and fled to a hiding spot to repair the damage.

Hawken is a slightly different kind of FPS. The mechs really are quite nimble for their size if you know how to pilot them. That is the key. Hawken has a learning curve.

[Immie]

Triple is a bit much, but I have always found time to kill slightly too fast. I have no problems surviving, I'd just like for fights to be slightly longer (and thus more skillful/tactical). According to my math and powers of making things up as I go along, I deduced somewhere around a 15-20% HP increase across the board to be a good starting point.

[Beemann]

Immie, on November 09 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Triple is a bit much, but I have always found time to kill slightly too fast. I have no problems surviving, I'd just like for fights to be slightly longer (and thus more skillful/tactical). According to my math and powers of making things up as I go along, I deduced somewhere around a 15-20% HP increase across the board to be a good starting point.

I ran out of likes, so I'd like to just say that I completely agree with this

[RavenSol]

Immie, on November 09 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Triple is a bit much, but I have always found time to kill slightly too fast. I have no problems surviving, I'd just like for fights to be slightly longer (and thus more skillful/tactical). According to my math and powers of making things up as I go along, I deduced somewhere around a 15-20% HP increase across the board to be a good starting point.

This is exactly the point i was atempting to make. A little longer  engaugment  is all i am wanting.  Atm i just get that  old quake feel i'm not saying that is a bad thing but it's really not a mech thing.

[Beemann]

TBH Quake has a longer TTK in many cases, what with health stacking and RA and the like
Granted, that's also not generally pub match stuff. Most people in any shooter are just going to run and gun until they get their face melted off and then do it all over again

[gunhe4d]

Seems to be as it should be in a game like this, life expectancy increases with skill.  Simply adding more health means more time for the loser to run away and repair and puts less emphasis on dodging attacks and being generally agile. Lower health pools means that players with better aim and a better sense of when to dodge an attack are rewarded for their skill.  Larger health pools make it more difficult to punish lower skilled players for their mistakes which takes the competition out of the game. I'd hate for this game to devolve to a simple slug fest where mechs have so much health they just stand there beating on each other.

[Rooslin]

gunhe4d, on November 09 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Seems to be as it should be in a game like this, life expectancy increases with skill.  Simply adding more health means more time for the loser to run away and repair and puts less emphasis on dodging attacks and being generally agile. Lower health pools means that players with better aim and a better sense of when to dodge an attack are rewarded for their skill.  Larger health pools make it more difficult to punish lower skilled players for their mistakes which takes the competition out of the game. I'd hate for this game to devolve to a simple slug fest where mechs have so much health they just stand there beating on each other.

there is no way to say it better then he just did.

[Immie]

That is exactly the opposite of the truth. More HP on a player who is not able to dodge will not significantly increase their survivability, as skilled players will tear into them all the same. Someone who uses cover and dodges will enjoy a greater benefit, since they are squeezing the longest amount of time alive out of every hitpoint they get.

More HP = a longer fight
A longer fight = more decisions, more opportunity to make mistakes
The better player will make less mistakes
A longer fight = the better player will win more often

Edited by Immie, November 09 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[Rooslin]

you change health then you need to change heat rates enless we are gonna take some breaks during our battles for tea

the fights are fine as is

[DarkPulse]

RavenSol, on November 09 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

tripple the health on all mechs if not even more  doing this will make combat longer and thus more fun atm you die so fast  it feels like your standard fps.  You have to set it apart  from the crowd  making it take more then a few seconds to kill  a mech  will give a better illusion of  future mech combat. The mech should feel tough right now they feel squishy.  Think of it this way if your the comander of a army and a guy says hey i got these  giant combat mechs  wana try them  of course you say heck ya  lets see them.  Then you see them die after only a few seconds  would you really want to buy them and put your troops in them __

Put it this way: If I have triple the health, I'm almost never dying. I'm hard enough to kill for most people within the current armor limits.

Lastly, keep in mind there was an event that I like to call the "Big Oops" that turned the world into the smoking ball it is now. These are mechs basically "hacked together" from a bunch of old stuff, not purpose-built death machines.

[Nitris]

I like the idea of a slightly larger health pool, not by a huge amount. Perhaps as much as a 25% increase to what all mechs currently have as a base standard. It will certainly make these mechs feel less flimsy- something I feel needs addressing. These heavily armoured mechs (especially C class) die just a little too fast in my opinion.

Saying "ooh but that will just lead to people ramming into each other and holding down the triggers until one of them dies" is a flawed argument, in so many ways. What is stopping people doing that right now_ Nothing. Do they do it right now_ Maybe the first few times they get behind the controls of a mech, but just like any pvp shooter, people soon learn that running headfirst into a fight is a pretty bad idea under most circumstances. Also, overheating anyone_

I think that there does not need to be an increase in heat capacity on weapons. It should stay exactly how it is. "Waaaah!! I can't just hold down left click and spam right click as soon as it is up waaaaah waaaah waaaah!! GOOD.
Enough with the spray and pray. Having this as an extremely uneffective means to kill someone only encourages people to play smarter.
It will force people to manage their heat, and decide if it is worth taking a shot or letting their guns cool off a tiny bit more so they don't overheat. This is not a bad thing.

Also, I completely agree with Immie.

[hitabowl]

I wouldn't mind maybe 10-15% more health on a mech but if this occurs I believe the heat limit should be raised and so should the repair rate. In more than a few instances I will be trying to kill a mech and overheat as I'm sure we all have. Fuzzy bunny annoying when an enemy mech has less 50 health left and you overheat . The extra repair rate would just be so that it takes the same amount of time to heal repair as it does now.

EDIT: I just read the post above me and I completely disagree. You want this to become an elitist only game_ Sure sounds like it. I have a 2.41 KD (going up ) and I overheat as it is now (not regularly, but sometimes). It'll become a game of "Shoot until you overheat, run away and attempt a quick repair and repeat"

EDIT2: After reading Immie's edited post, I agree that the better player will win in a battle of more mistakes but at this point in the CBE2 better players are few and far between. Maybe these changes would work well once Matchmaking is sorted out and the game enters Open Beta, but for now I think it is far too soon.

Edited by hitabowl, November 09 2012 - 05:07 PM.

[BeefC4ke]

I feel like the health is fine the way it is.

[gunhe4d]

Immie, on November 09 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

That is exactly the opposite of the truth. More HP on a player who is not able to dodge will not significantly increase their survivability, as skilled players will tear into them all the same. Someone who uses cover and dodges will enjoy a greater benefit, since they are squeezing the longest amount of time alive out of every hitpoint they get.

More HP = a longer fight
A longer fight = more decisions, more opportunity to make mistakes
The better player will make less mistakes
A longer fight = the better player will win more often

Nope, larger health pool allows poor players to make more mistakes and live, it doesn't help skilled players at all.  Essentially it lowers the skill cap of the game.  It's already pretty damn easy to recognize when you are losing a fight and disengage to find a safe place to heal.  You wan't longer battles_ fight smarter.

Also realize that if you want more health, there are internals and upgrades you can buy that will give you that should you want to play that way.

Edited by gunhe4d, November 09 2012 - 05:39 PM.

[Immie]

States opinion without fact [check]
Rebuttals stated logic []

[Nitris]

hitabowl, on November 09 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

...I just read the post above me and I completely disagree. You want this to become an elitist only game_ Sure sounds like it. I have a 2.41 KD (going up ) and I overheat as it is now (not regularly, but sometimes). It'll become a game of "Shoot until you overheat, run away and attempt a quick repair and repeat"...

I'm not sure how you equate "less spray and pray" to "elitist only game".
It makes the game less simple yes, but not to the point of it being mandatory that you train for 8 hours a day before you play a ranked match. I mean really, you have blown this out of proportion a bit here.

It is quite simple, and I do it already ingame. I keep an eye on my heat gauge and will hold fire while concentrating purely on dodging for a few seconds until my gauge goes from red to yellow again, and then fire another burst, cool off for a few seconds while dodging and so on.
Overheating is supposed to be a really bad thing, and something you should be actively avoiding at all costs. It is like EMPing yourself-- You really shouldn't be doing that.
I really can't see how anyone with a brain would play like you said: "Shoot until you overheat, run away and attempt a quick repair and repeat". That is a death sentance against even half decent players.
All you'd have to do is chase them and, assuming you were managing your heat, you can shoot them for free while all they can do is attempt to dodge.