29 replies to this topic

[Antares]

Well, I just want to give my feedback with this one.


The "special power" of the heavy mechs it's kinda neat when playing in teamwork, but leave the mech itself with a few disadvantages.

The lack of mobility it's understandable, but we can't use items also. In comparision, the fortified turret it's the less powerfull of all mech's powers. All of them do not have a throwback, except the fortified turret.


Now, i not pretend to say that we need to be flying fortress or whatever, but in one vs one with any mech, it's far more convenient to stay in our normal form from the get go, the amount of armour just isn't enough when the enemy mech is dodging ALL of our shots while he (or she) is hitting us with all of them.

What is my suggestion_ Or either  make the mech "innmunne" to certain effects (EMP, for example), or add some heavy resistance to the mech, or add the option to use items while we are in that mode.

As always, sorry for my bad grammar, and thanks for reading!

[R4yleonard]

I agree with you, those fortified turret feels to weak. Can't use item, can't repair. Even camping using is hard. The armor aren't enough

[DDwarrior]

I'm find the turret mode to great for corridor and terrain control.  As you mentioned alonside a team the turret has a lot of potential for locking down certain routes and areas.  I play as an assault and on Sahara I ordered a C to take point and simply hold a long hill with me and a sniper as back-up.  The terrain allowed him to poke in and out while I ordered the other 3 teammates to walk around the back under the radar to ambush the enemy in cross fair since they had hunkered down in a corner.  Worked great.

I'm hoping to see more examples of how it can be utilized for as you mentioned it seems to only shines when used as a teams tool.  Ever seen 3 side by side_ Just a little daunting, while I agree they should use a mix of rapid fire/accurate weapons and heavy explosives for heavy damage and aoe.

[D20Face]

I still think they're the best abilities in the game.

[Juodvarnis]

Honestly they're completely rubbish. Even though i really like the idea, the implementation is simply retarded. I'm pretty sure it only decreases the damage taken by 20% which is completely useless, i mean seriously!
In my honest opinion, all shots that hit the barricades should deal 0 damage, and explosion should deal decreased damage. But they should still leave the mech vulnerable from behind and from accurate shots through the crack between the barricades. Like the riot shields in other games.

[Kai_Kitamura]

At least in this patch, turret mode grants repair. It's not as fast as regular repair, and it won't save you in a firefight, but it greatly confers to the usefulness.

Still, the turret could use some more buffs.

[Aelieth]

D20Face, on November 10 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

I still think they're the best abilities in the game.

And I'm still of the opposite opinion...

[IceTonic]

Agreed, there needs to be a boost in damage reduction for the front/shields, a separate armor pool for the ability, or something along the lines to make it worth using. There really isn't a huge point in killing your mobility (which you already lack) as a Brawler when you tote a Flak Cannon, since every other mech just stays away from you and take pot shots from a safe distance while they strafe your TOW.

Has there been any official word to changes/buffs to Turret mode from Meteor/Adhesive recently_ There aren't many redeeming aspects of a Class-C right now, and I'd honestly wait until they strap on Hellfire Missiles on a Class-B, than stick to playing Rocketeer due to how terribly gimped you are compared to other classes. Being a slow high-profile target, with an ability to make you even slower for two.

D20Face, on November 10 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

I still think they're the best abilities in the game.

When you have abilities that drastically reduce heat and boost damage, I can't really agree that they're the best. What makes you think that way_ I'm curious since Fortified/Mobile Turret may increase a Class-C's defense, but at the cost of slowing you down to a crawl to essentially be a big punching bag.

At least they have no sort of cooldown, just a long animation that will leave you either exposed to anyone that comes by, or to leave you crawling up to a choke point. I personally think they would be great if it actually felt more like a shield and complimented the weapon set-ups the Class-C mechs have.

[Juodvarnis]

I had made a thread about different and more interesting abilities, but i forgot how i called it. However i had drawn a MS paint picture, showing how the abilities would work, so i think i'll just leave it here and I'll go blow up some TV mechs in my Fat and furious Brawler.
The picture also has some illustrations for abilities that could replace the boring (and somewhat retarded) default abilities which are magical stat boosts, anyway here:
 x).png   255.46K   8 downloads
The charge ability would benefit the Brawler and the fortress - Rocketeer, anyway.

Edited by Juodvarnis, November 10 2012 - 09:22 AM.

[DM30]

Kai_Kitamura, on November 10 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

At least in this patch, turret mode grants repair. It's not as fast as regular repair, and it won't save you in a firefight, but it greatly confers to the usefulness.

Still, the turret could use some more buffs.

Are you sure that was the result of a patch_ Granted, I haven't checked into the game today for any changes, but in CBE1 the Brawler's (I think it was the brawler, at least) ability stated right up front that it granted slow health repair while in use, in contrast to the Rocketeer's higher mobility with the shield.

Unless they added health regen to the Rocketeer's ability too, this is nothing new.

[Juodvarnis]

Brawler already had the health regen when in turret mode, when Rocketeer had faster movement but no regen, i think

[Antares]

Thanks all for the replies!

I agree with most of you, the turret need a buff. Mostly because is an complex special power.


I like the idea of making a full armored turret, leaving vulnerable places like the tail of the mech, or the spaces between the shield.

[BuDeKai]

Antares, on November 10 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

What is my suggestion_ Or either  make the mech "innmunne" to certain effects (EMP, for example), or add some heavy resistance to the mech, or add the option to use items while we are in that mode.

i agree with that. as much as i dont play heavys emping the ones who are deployed is too easy

[D20Face]

IceTonic, on November 10 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

D20Face, on November 10 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

I still think they're the best abilities in the game.

When you have abilities that drastically reduce heat and boost damage, I can't really agree that they're the best. What makes you think that way_ I'm curious since Fortified/Mobile Turret may increase a Class-C's defense, but at the cost of slowing you down to a crawl to essentially be a big punching bag.

At least they have no sort of cooldown, just a long animation that will leave you either exposed to anyone that comes by, or to leave you crawling up to a choke point. I personally think they would be great if it actually felt more like a shield and complimented the weapon set-ups the Class-C mechs have.

Numbers.

First and foremost, the heat ability is rubbish. You shouldn't be overheating.

Second, [Ommited]

Third. Damage boost is not worth fuzzy bunny. Ever. It will never push burst into a category that reduced the number of hit volleys to down an opponent since it's the secondary damage spikes that land kills.

Fourth. You can try to dodge good opponents. It won't work, but you can try. Against people who play fast paced shooters(Quake, Tribes) you can't avoid them. The Hawken dodge speeds are what they're used to when it comes to normal play speeds and you're locked into those animations like a giant glaring target. Winning dps fights is how you determine battles against good players.

The only downside that I will admit to from the ability is a lack of pressure and vulnerability window from turreting. You cannot force the opponent into a position where they will die. Thus it shines in team based modes where locking down positions is important and you can rely on your lights to clean up the kill.

As far as damage ratios go though, it has the highest impact on a fight of any ability in a raw numbers sense. It's essentially god mode in the right hands, it just makes it harder to follow up on kills(if a person is in your sights they'll die)

[IceTonic]

D20Face, on November 10 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

Numbers.

First and foremost, the heat ability is rubbish. You shouldn't be overheating.

Second, [Ommited]

Third. Damage boost is not worth fuzzy bunny. Ever. It will never push burst into a category that reduced the number of hit volleys to down an opponent since it's the secondary damage spikes that land kills.

Fourth. You can try to dodge good opponents. It won't work, but you can try. Against people who play fast paced shooters(Quake, Tribes) you can't avoid them. The Hawken dodge speeds are what they're used to when it comes to normal play speeds and you're locked into those animations like a giant glaring target. Winning dps fights is how you determine battles against good players.

The only downside that I will admit to from the ability is a lack of pressure and vulnerability window from turreting. You cannot force the opponent into a position where they will die. Thus it shines in team based modes where locking down positions is important and you can rely on your lights to clean up the kill.

As far as damage ratios go though, it has the highest impact on a fight of any ability in a raw numbers sense. It's essentially god mode in the right hands, it just makes it harder to follow up on kills(if a person is in your sights they'll die)

The first statement, for Weapon Coolant isn't really that bad. It allows you to sustain fire for a longer period of time, it has no use at all when you've already overheated but it isn't the point of the ability. If you find yourself around 50% heat build-up, one quick button would completely reduce it. I'd definitely take that on my Infiltrator if I could, because who wouldn't want to fire 30-50% longer_ Not to include its cooldown isn't that long either.

Going back on third, it was mostly the point considering it has no negatives, and even if the damage is minor, it does help without costing someone negatively. Secondaries benefit the most, which makes it funny as they don't fire enough to make a large difference especially without internal/optimization to make it worthwhile. It still provides no penalty in the end. I'll give you that one though, can't say I don't agree.

As for fourth, that's true. I haven't come across many of these folk sadly, but the closest to them were very accurate but not always. In the end that wouldn't matter, would it_ Maybe in that sense it would end up who making the first mistake if not outputting more DPS.


Anyway, the last part of your post is rather interesting. I can understand the impact it can have in the right hands, but I don't see how it can be god mode. Maybe in specific situations where the enemy can't dodge, or harass with constant cover usage_ Or if you hold the fort inside the Anti-Air structure_ I have a feeling the "It's essentially god mode in the right hands" statement isn't in general or any situation, because otherwise I'd like to see (or proven) why it is so. Maybe you'll show such numbers to enlighten everyone of potential never used on heavy mechs before. But until then.

As it stands, I personally find Weapon Coolant the best ability, with Damage Boost and Cloak following. It seems that it is a bit too niche to make good use of Turret Mode where it would shine as often as other abilities. Not that the others are completely fine (besides coolant), but that's a story for another thread.

Edited by IceTonic, November 10 2012 - 08:25 PM.

[EmFire]

My suggested solution to validate the mode is to "simply" Increase the defense rating or HP of the mech while in Mobile Turret.

And while less serious, a thought occurred: A possible (fun_) balance to being higher defense is that that the shoulder defense plates could be destroyed permanently (per spawn) separate from the main mech body. Of course without the plates, the mech would become much lighter/faster and would perhaps create balancing or feature hell for the devs this late in the game.

Edited by EmFire, November 10 2012 - 08:28 PM.

[D20Face]

Since I don't have the inis anymore, this is from memory. I might be off, but I know it's at least 30%.

Healing turret takes .65 damage. As in, 35% damage reduction. The mobile turret mode gives a full 40%. Healing turret heals 8 damage per second, but that's negligible even when you're taking reduced damage.

Damage buff ability I believe is in the 10-15% range, but it benefits far less from optimizations/internals than defensive boosts.

Since you have more hit points to start, a larger damage soak than any other in the game, AND the highest burst weapons in the game(Flak/Repeater), anybody moving towards you is signing their death warrant. As has been said however, they don't need to move towards you unless it's an objective mode or in a team based formation. You're pretty much impossible to kill in that mode.

[DarkPulse]

D20Face, on November 10 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

Since I don't have the inis anymore, this is from memory. I might be off, but I know it's at least 30%.

Healing turret takes .65 damage. As in, 35% damage reduction. The mobile turret mode gives a full 40%. Healing turret heals 8 damage per second, but that's negligible even when you're taking reduced damage.

Damage buff ability I believe is in the 10-15% range, but it benefits far less from optimizations/internals than defensive boosts.

Since you have more hit points to start, a larger damage soak than any other in the game, AND the highest burst weapons in the game(Flak/Repeater), anybody moving towards you is signing their death warrant. As has been said however, they don't need to move towards you unless it's an objective mode or in a team based formation. You're pretty much impossible to kill in that mode.

No way. I was facing another guy last night in a full-health healing turret and he had dropped me down 700+ HP within two seconds or so. There is nothing in the game that will do that, and I know it was not someone else helping him with damage.

[D20Face]

DarkPulse, on November 10 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

]No way. I was facing another guy last night in a full-health healing turret and he had dropped me down 700+ HP within two seconds or so. There is nothing in the game that will do that, and I know it was not someone else helping him with damage.

You can pop two he charges within that timeframe. It's what I do against turret mode players. Pop all of my consumables at once.

Turret mode may be great, but the presence of consumables is still the single biggest influence on any given matchup. Wasting more than one on a single mech is extremely ballsy though.

EDIT:WAIT, YOU WERE IN ALPHA/CB1, do you still have your .inis_ You can check for us if you didn't manually delete them.

Edited by D20Face, November 11 2012 - 05:40 AM.

[MajorAjer]

I totally agree turret needs help. I consistently destroy them from a medium-far range, as a class A mech, simply by using TOW and assault rifle. When I see a turret I usually think of it as a free kill because I know it isnt going anywhere. *shrug*