14 replies to this topic

[[HWK]HUGHES]

Hello Everyone

We here at Adhesive have been pretty busy I'd say getting Closed Beta 3 done so I haven't had the opportunity to browse the forums as much as I'd like. That being said, Closed Beta 3 is a big event for us and although Meteor posted our notes in the Closed Beta Event 3 News section, I wanted to give a bit of a background and context to some of these changes so you can hear a bit more about the direction we're headed. Feel free to ask any questions you'd like about this release and we'll try to comment when possible.

MECHS

• Three new mechs are available for purchase: the Scout, Bruiser, and Grenadier
• A new weapon is available and can be found in the Grenadier: The Rev GL
• A new weapon is available and can be found in the Rocketeer: The Seeker
We hope you like these new mechs and they've been in the works for a while. I'm particularly fond of the new weapons we have available. The Revolving Grenade Launcher (Rev GL) is amazing for bombarding enemies gathered together in close quarters. If the enemy is occupying the AA in Siege... give the Grenadier a try; it'll certainly help clear out that space a bit. The Seeker is also really satisfying. It functions in a similar fashion to the Hellfire Missiles and even though it causes less damage, it feels great to fire off missile after missile all in a row. Let us know what you think.

SIEGE MODE

• Bases now have 2 base health instead of 3
• Energy Unit (EU) sources no longer run out of energy when in dispensing mode
This might be a bit controversial. When EU sources started running out of energy, it seemed to turn that phase of the match into a bit of a grind and was more frustrating than fun. What we did was remove the ability for sources to run out, but the rate in which EU is dispensed is split among those collecting. That makes the play dynamic around that area a bit more interesting. We also found that in general Siege matches were lasting too long for people. Players weren't staying through the whole match and often it if was a 3 base health versus 1 situation, players felt there was no way they could recover and just bailed.

Siege is something that we have bigger plans for here at the studio. You'll see changes to this in the future but we can talk more about that later.

ITEMS

• Items now regenerate after a set amount of time
• Items are now divided into just two categories: Offensive Items and Support Items (the old Defensive and Functional categories are now "Support")
We wanted to give this a try since it seemed to help with balancing and also allow players to use an equipped item again if they've successfully avoided death. Avoiding death for that long is no small task to be sure. Players no longer have to worry about how many items they have left, only if one is ready to use. Have no fear, players can't have more than one turret deployed at once.

There are two reasons for the regrouping. One, Support seemed to make more sense as a category and the Functional category from previous closed betas seemed unnecessary. There were only a few items there anyway. Two, we are working on a third category which will add a new dynamic to the game and should be pretty sweet when people get their hands on it.

AUDIO

• New sounds added for special ability activation/deactivation
We admit, it was difficult to tell if a special ability was active or not. These related audio cues should help.

BALANCE

• Most Internals now have negative effects to balance out the positive ones
• Optimization trees have been altered for better balance
• Mech movement was rebalanced: Mech B and Mech C move slightly slower, but all mechs can use thrusters for longer periods of time
• The Mini Flak now has a higher rate of fire, with less damage
Balancing, balancing, balancing. We agree with much of the feedback we've been receiving and felt in general there was too much of a strength difference between level 1 mechs and level 20 mechs. We have longer term plans for how mechs will work with the game but those are details for another time. We've changed the skills a bit in the Optimization tree and most Internals have a trade off associated with them. For example, sure you can add a bonus to Weapons Damage, but you'll do so at the expense of some Armor.

We played with mech speeds a little too and changed how the Mini Flak works. Let us know how they feel.

MATCHMAKING

• The server browser was removed to better test matchmaking and help keep matches balanced
• The ANY option was removed from matchmaking
• The default matchmaking type is now Team Deathmatch
• Players are now able to switch teams in the middle of a match if a team has 2 or more players than the other team
Matches were not as balanced as we wanted. As a result we decided to remove the server browser for a re-introduction at a later time so we could focus on getting matchmaking where it needs to be. We removed the ANY option because first time players were getting thrown into objective based matches without feeling comfortable with the basic mechanics yet. By making Team Deathmatch the default option, players have to actively chose to play one of the other modes. Team balancing turned into a bit of a mess mid match too if players left halfway through so if teams are uneven... players can now balance that out themselves.

FRIENDS

• Game Invites: You may now invite players to your game through your Friend’s List
Yay! Take advantage of this especially since the server browser was put to sleep for a little while. We weren't able to have this functioning properly by CBT2.

MECH LEVEL IN A MATCH

• The Mech Level for a player now appears on the scoreboard
• Death notification messages display the level and mech type of the player who killed you
It got a bit frustrating not being able to see what you're up against. If you hit TAB and bring up the scoreboard you can see what all the mech levels are in a match. When you're killed by someone you can now also see their mech level.  Hopefully you'll get a bit of satisfaction when you take out someone who is using a mech 10 levels higher than you.

A FEW OTHER THINGS

• A post match player highlight screen is available, showcasing the best players in select categories
This is basically the first pass at something bigger. It's a way to see how players ranked in multiple fun categories. You'll see more to this feature in the future.

• Tutorial videos are embedded in the DEPLOY menu
We embedded the videos that Meteor released a little while ago so that players new to the game could get up to speed within the client. We'll have more tutorial stuff in the near future to replace the use of those videos.

• Additional PhysX effects added to gameplay
I love 'em and am happy with where we're getting this visual aspect to the game. Please note that these are pretty resource heavy so if you have this turned on and your frame rate is a bit brutal, you may need to turn this option off.

The rest of the notes are available on the Closed Beta Event 3 News page in addition to the bug fixes we wanted to specifically call out. The notes put together here doesn't cover all the small under the hood tweaks to help improve performance, UI and audio but hopefully those of you who have been with us for a while will see the improvements.


Whew, well this turned into quite the lengthy post so thanks for reading this far. All of us here at Adhesive are working pretty tirelessly on Hawken, getting it to where we want it to be. We have plenty of content and features in the pipe and hopefully you fans will have an increasingly great time with it. Our December beta is right around the corner and I hope you'll be happy with the progress you see but I'm getting way ahead of myself.

Please take advantage of the forums to post whatever constructive feedback you have, we're definitely listening and we'll see you online.

Thanks.

[Toryne]

Thank you for giving us a look at the thought process behind these changes.

[KaszaWspraju]

Please and here are my reasons


Clik to the topic.

Quote

These are two of the worst changes in my opinion.

• Items now regenerate after a set amount of time.
  
• Items are now divided into just two categories: Offensive Items and Support Items (the old Defensive and Functional categories are now "Support")

Ad1
I do not have to worry and plan when, where and how to use items, just wait a little bit, they never run out.

Ad2
With this change devs drastically limited number of items to be taken into account by the player.
I think now most often will be selected: EMP,  MG-Turret and grenade.
Who would not want a regenerate EMP.


NEXT

• Mech movement has been rebalanced: Mech B and Mech C move slightly slower, but all mechs can use thrusters for longer periods of time

In my opinion, the last thing this game needs is to increase the speed difference between classes,taking into account how it can be further enhanced.

The same applies to: "mechs can use thrusters for longer periods of time". Again, too simplify the game, increasing the pace.


FINALLY SIGE MODE

• Siege Mode: Bases now have 2 base health instead of 3
  
• Siege Mode: Energy Unit (EU) sources no longer run out of energy when in dispensing mode

Sige mode is to fast now, and the applied solution  for problems form CB2 unfortunately ruined this mod pretty much.

Just enough to reduce the possibility of shooting down battleship to a minimum, If not shot up at least once or twice with AA.
Slightly increase speed of filling EU the mech and the station.

Talk about sige mode takes place in this topic

Quote

Two, we are working on a third category which will add a new dynamic to the game and should be pretty sweet when people get their hands on it.

But here you're overrated players, most of choose the simplest option: EMP plus anything else for DMG.
Few who sacrifice EMP for radar jammer, shield and so on.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, November 20 2012 - 06:24 PM.

[KaszaWspraju]

Trakel, on November 20 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

Having read some of the threads in regards to the changes revolved around items regenerating, I feel personally that the change was a bad move.

I liked the intensity of a fight, knowing that all of my equipment was blown and that the only thing going to keep me alive from that point forward is how well I can pilot the mech I'm using. I feel like that the only place regenerating items would have reason for being there would be in the deathmatch mode, even then I disagree with it. As I pointed out in another thread, solely for realism, the mechs were piloting aren't mobile factories, they're rather small actually.

What I did suggest though was placing in some modes (I had seige and missle in mind, maybe team deathmatch) placing a station either in each home base where people have the option to go and rearm their mech with the consumables they're provided with on spawn.

An even more elaborate idea, and I like this one better, would be placing an armory type node that is contested in Missle and Seige modes, adding another factor into playing. Whoever controls the armory also has the ability to rearm their mech - making it an attractive thing to have in modes like Missle and Seige. The map I currently have in mind is Origin, where in Seige the AA is on the top bridge, both energy gathering stations being on the sides, with both bases being on either end.

Place the armory station in the middle of the lowest part of the map, between both energy stations under the AA. I think that would be an interesting addition anyway.

Thoughts_

TOPIC

[[HWK]HUGHES]

In general I think that you may find that you use the same number of items during a life whether they are on a recharge system or not. Internally at least we find that it's helped with pacing but we aren't 100% married to the idea with good counter arguments. The item that this new system directly impacts the most is the HE Charge and it started feeling a little extreme to be able to lob off 2 of those right in a row without a restriction.

I find it interesting that you feel the only solution is EMP, I personally rarely equip the EMP and more often choose the Health Charge but I do also play a longer range game. Here at the studio there is always a few that choose the Scrambler and it can be brutal in objective based games.  The third category will be a bigger change than JUST a third category but we did decide to do the preliminary stages of this change here is CBT3 as a form of transition. Seeing how people feel about the new categories is important information to know before adding this third.

You've mentioned a dispenser station and it's funny you mentioned it as it's something we had in the game about a year ago but didn't move forward with partially because it encouraged players to leave action rather than engage.

You have good points, continue to let us know. All constructive feedback is good to hear.

[[HWK]HUGHES]

Oh yes, when it comes to Siege we did see pretty consistently that matches were going on and on and on and on... MOST players left after 20 minutes which I found quite interesting. We're trying to get Siege to be around 20-30 minutes on average with longer matches going 30-40. Whichever team does base damage first can still lose pretty easily, more so now in this more recent change. We play with the variables you've discussed on a pretty regular basis and ALL of them impact the pace of the game in a pretty big way. Some upcoming changes should help with your concerns.

[DarkPulse]

HUGHES, on November 21 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

Oh yes, when it comes to Siege we did see pretty consistently that matches were going on and on and on and on... MOST players left after 20 minutes which I found quite interesting. We're trying to get Siege to be around 20-30 minutes on average with longer matches going 30-40. Whichever team does base damage first can still lose pretty easily, more so now in this more recent change. We play with the variables you've discussed on a pretty regular basis and ALL of them impact the pace of the game in a pretty big way. Some upcoming changes should help with your concerns.

The matches were fine in terms of length, but the problem is there's very little incentive to stay and fight. All that shortening it seems to have done is make people leave after the first pip goes away.

Personally, I liked the longer fights. They got me more XP, too.

[KaszaWspraju]

Quote

I find it interesting that you feel the only solution is EMP, I personally rarely equip the EMP and more often choose the Health Charge but I do also play a longer range game.

It was good in CB2, now game is to fast and changes in improving HP/Armor  also made ​big difference. Better tactic is now to escape since we can use thrusters for longer periods of time. Healing orb often penetrates the walls and floor, we have to to often take two or three additional steps to begin to heal.

With these changes and reduced choices, the game is becoming easier and more chaotic imho.

Yes two HE Charge was to much.

I know it will be difficult but you have to, in my opinion, to find a happy medium between CB2 and CB3. This applies to the speed of the game, sige mode and item use.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, November 21 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[fwip]

The main thing I noticed is that battleships always take 600 EU to launch. I liked the increasing difficulty of launching each successive ship.

[KaszaWspraju]

defekt, on November 21 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

Reducing the number of items you can carry will serve only to widen that usage-gap between the 'good' items and the 'not so good' items when it comes to public games, especially DM.  With three slots being available the less effective items still saw a good amount of use.  IMO, only for pre-made matches will the more situational items see any significant use; for pube games very few people will voluntarily take a 'weaker' set even if it actually means 'stronger' from a co-ordinated team standpoint.

Quote

Say i blow my load on the first guy i see, i know i wont be able to use them again until i die. The old system "punishes" you for staying alive. And when that load is 2x HE, 1 EMP and 2x Shields, it's starts becoming really temting to just immolate yourself to get your stuff back.

I see this from a different perspective: rather than it punishing the strong it gives the weak a fighting chance.

I'm not onboard with item regeneration and to be honest I fail to see the sensible driving logic behind this decision.  In CB2 finite item availability acted as a half-way-house counter-measure between the good and the not-so-good players; if you died a lot you at least had the helping hand of being given a fresh set of gear to break through that wall.  Now we see a nearly endless swath of turrets, HE & EMP (regenerating so fast that they're not that far off from being counted as a second, secondary weapon) and shields being laid down.  IMO adding item regeneration was a detrimental move.

I'm trying not to sound melodramatic but thus far, overall, CB3 feels like it has taken a not insignificant step away from being a game that rewards sound tactical play and that is disappointing -- too many games take this route these days -- particularly if these changes herald the start of a new direction in design philosophy.  Resources should require management, be them heat, map collectables, mech build choices or equipment items and good stewardship of these resources should represent the difference between a good team and a not-so-good one.  I'm really not getting that feeling from a number of these CB3 changes.

[BRASH]

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

[[HWK]HUGHES]

BRASH, on November 21 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

So... you're saying something about a VOIP icon_ Lol. It's on the list for sure to get in soon but we've had other higher priority issues to tackle unfortunately. There's a lot of requests for this feature and we will have it.

[BRASH]

[ADH]HUGHES, on November 21 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

BRASH, on November 21 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

We really need an audio icon for in-game VOIP users.

So... you're saying something about a VOIP icon_ Lol. It's on the list for sure to get in soon but we've had other higher priority issues to tackle unfortunately. There's a lot of requests for this feature and we will have it.

Just knowing it's on the list is a relief.

Keep at it, Adhesive! I love that game you made with the robots!

[Nitris]

Human beings are sticklers for the small details.
Its the tiny things like the little exclamation mark icon on the garage and optimisations tab letting you know you have unspent points, that matter.

I guess it is the thought that if these small things are being picked up on and sorted, then the big things obviously are too. It is reasuring.


Just want to say thank you to all of ADH.
You guys come an talk to us personally which is so unlike a lot of other unnamed development teams.
If it is awesome to get feedback from us, think how it feels when we get feedback from you guys! =3

[SystemiK]

tl:dr




Sorry, just kidding.  I can't give you guys ENOUGH props for being so transparent about what you are changing and more importantly WHY you are changing it.  It is very refreshing to actually feel like a part of the process instead of simply being a bystander to it.

Bravo.