55 replies to this topic

[zorin1]

Edit: Hestoned reminded me with his post that comes later in the thread. The Star system for servers is terrrriiibllee and just about every day on the steam forums someone finds out that 3 stars does not equal higher level players and has their mind blown. The star system seriously needs to be reworked.

 

I complained about the star system when it first came out.  Because you can't tell if a 1 star is to easy or to hard for you.  I think if the average MMR of the lobby is lower than you it should be Red, if it is higher than it should be Green.  We want people to go into higher level matches not lower. 

 

Just my two cents, which is not worth much.  No one listens to me.

[zorin1]

You Can NEVER fix the Balance/ Match Making & MMR as long as Smurfs continue to make new accounts every other day. This is a sole reason for why you very often see a lousy scout dominating everyone in the other team. His score is in 1000's while other people hardly cross 100. Its not just scout. It can be done with any mech. But you get the idea: Limit one account per IP AND system Specs + verify your account using your phone for additional measure. 1 account per phone/ IP and System Specs. If all taken into view then there will be pretty less smurfs.

 

IP's would be checked on the basis of your registration  and the actual game playing.

 

I have three people that play Hawken from the same IP address.  This won't work.  Two of us have two accounts each.  I know of a lot of people that have at least 2 accounts. 

[crockrocket]

This sucks, can't play with my west coast friends I could play with a week ago. Absolutely 1 fuzzy bunnyng million percent fuzzy bunny this new mmr locking. Mother fuzzy bunnyng fuzzy bunny. I hate this.

[OmegaNull]

Yeah it is making it even harder to find places to play... 

[FRX23]

1. Matches with uneven amount of players due to leaving and joining the match. (3v4s, etf.)

Solution: Abit like in Heroes and Generals, prevent the 4th player in the 4v3 match (the 4th player and the 4 head team) from spawning until a teammate dies. The teammate who just died is now in the waiting corner or whatever you wanna call it and is unable to spawn until another teammate dies.
Continue until we have a 4v4.

2. Leaving and joining (especially joining). The mm balances players at the beginning of a match. In the worst case, 5v4 with an even number of MMR points.
One player joins and it turns out to be a 5v5 but the one team has now more MMR than the other one (the difference is equal to the MMR of the player joined).

Solution: Refuse to start a match with uneven numbers of players. This will cause an even number of players witu an even number of mmr points.

 

This cis sis and zis.

 

It's the first thing to do, i cry for so long time about this issue.

[TheButtSatisfier]

Yeah it is making it even harder to find places to play... 

 

Agreed. I noticed that there aren't as many open servers as normal. I've tried to seed new games for my MMR bracket - deathmatch and tdm - and after waiting 20 mins I just quit.

[ArchMech]

2200+ mmr range henceforth known as wood league.

 

no

numbers only, no wood-plat, i dont want to be hearing any of that

[ArchMech]

You fool.  If you allow the top 1% into any server they want, their enjoyment will trickle down and benefit the other classes.

 ahh classic nept with the trickle down economy joke, you enjoying the show up there in canada? got enough popcorn? yea?

 

 

get rid of the star system. bring back public mmr ratings on the server browser. remove the mmr restrictions. allow us to organize the server browser from highest to lowest mmr rating. those on the high end will join the highest available one. this worked flawlessly before. it will work now. we dont need new ideas or "fixes". its a tried and true system. dont fix what isnt broken. correct adhesives biggest mistake to this game.

this fits and NOTHING ELSE DOES, im sure this would cause a mass return to hawken, im so sure id stake my life on it

 

1. kill whatever lets servers balance based on 5v6 or anything of the sort

 

2. essentially when 2 players party up their average goes up +100 points, thats +100 mmr to EACH OF THEM, kill this off

 

3. just stop, focus, see the RANGE of the server is +/- 1000.....1000, stop again, look again, now face palm, cuz (1) dave cant save this guy, (2) daves not even on his team (3) any system running off averages and ignoring range is bound to fail due to the feeder factor included in 3 (1) and 3 (2)

Edited by ArchMech, 07 May 2015 - 04:54 PM.

[LoC_TR]

You know I think you guys should try a different approach. Try joining an empty server of your choosing, wait in that lobby and see If anyone is slotted into your match.

Just a few of us today joined a server with capnjosh which was rated 2400 and we were able to get full matches of missile assault. Before the changes this server would have NEVER filled up so fast or possibly not at all.

[KejiGoto]

 

• Match balancing

Potential solution: mid-match balancing/reorganizing teams whenever a new player joins.  Create more incentive to stay in games, and punish leavers for being scrubs.    

 

 

My thoughts on a solution to this has always been go with two pools of players that the matchmaker has to work with. One pool is of active players who have readied up and thus want to play. If the match hasn't started it goes through the usual routine of sorting everyone and then starting the match, only difference is those who haven't clicked ready are not placed on a team. Once the match begins and they click ready or simply join the server their MMR will be sorted onto the team that benefits from it the most if teams are even in terms of player count.

 

This approach makes sure that only players who are actually wanting to play are counted for balancing and also helps keep things balanced as new players come into a server. Countless times I've seen matches go south because someone goes AFK between matches or simply doesn't spawn in, they are sorted onto a team leaving that team down a player, and that team is at a disadvantage and won't have matchmaker give them another player until that person times out. Also seen numerous times where a really good player will join midgame and ends up on the team which is already stomping out the other team which just results in more people rage quitting and that never results in a fun match.

[Leonhardt]

You fool. If you allow the top 1% into any server they want, their enjoyment will trickle down and benefit the other classes.

Nept for president.

[zorin1]

You know I think you guys should try a different approach. Try joining an empty server of your choosing, wait in that lobby and see If anyone is slotted into your match.

Just a few of us today joined a server with capnjosh which was rated 2400 and we were able to get full matches of missile assault. Before the changes this server would have NEVER filled up so fast or possibly not at all.

 

I think this was one of the matches:  https://youtu.be/Cpo127_shUM

 

 

My MMR jumped after this game. I did well in this game.

Edited by zorin1, 08 May 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[crockrocket]

You know I think you guys should try a different approach. Try joining an empty server of your choosing, wait in that lobby and see If anyone is slotted into your match.

Just a few of us today joined a server with capnjosh which was rated 2400 and we were able to get full matches of missile assault. Before the changes this server would have NEVER filled up so fast or possibly not at al

I don't care about the changes to MM, I think those are fine. I care about the new mmr lock. 300 -/+ is fuzzing stupid. People send me invites and I can't join them, on matches that used to be fine.

[StubbornPuppet]

You know what?  I've always been a fan of the way the autobalancer/matchmaking in Hawken worked (before the recent experiment).

 

But now, unless something is done to strongly discourage the creation of alt/smurf accounts, I think I'd almost rather see match balancing turned completely off and let it be a free-for-all.

 

I have simply lost my patience with how completely lopsided most matches have become due to the auto-balancer trying to do it's job correctly, but not being able to because half of the people in the match are essentially lying to it about their skill level.  That's really what creating an alt/smurf account does - tells the matchmaker that a player is a much lower MMR than they really are, so it builds teams based on fake stats.

 

And having to read the chat after matches - where all these alts/smurfs are like "WOOT, I'm only level 7 and I'm already rocking first place!" and you see the podium for the winning team where the top 5 players are all below level 10, yet level 30's are at the bottom of the podium.  Nobody who has played more than 6 months of this game is gonna be fooled - we know the difference between how a newer player and a veteran player moves.

 

I know this is an old rant and that we stopped trying to care about it months ago... but it just keeps getting worse and worse by the day and I long for a return to balanced matches.

 

I think that random team assigning with no attempt at balance would be more likely to create a balanced team and better than the mess that alt accounts make of it right now.

Edited by StubbornPuppet, 11 May 2015 - 06:25 AM.

[M4st0d0n]

Matchmaking is doing its job whith the population it got. IMO you need to give the vets a good reason to come and play when the grind is gone. Padding MMR is the only endgame. It leads to several problems. High tier need a proper ranked mode.

 

Also, just assume people wont be capable to wait more than one minute for the quickmatch to go and will rather jump on the server list. Ideally it's good to have both but right now only the list or the quickmatch should be available, not both.

[Lily_from_animove]

Top priotity should be the analyse why this curve does suddenly drastically drop, a healthy match distribution needs a rather "ideal bell" like curve, which obviously is not given. Otherwise you have a strange "skill wall" that cna cause a point many do not want or can proceed past. but those closely in front of it will regulary get such a bad time by gamign experience, that they will leave the game.

 

Second priotity should ba analysing the online time of those brackets.

 

Because I am quite sure on Prime time the amount of people online at the same time are NOT distributed as above, it will mostlikely house in % a lot more top tier palyers, since a top tier player may play the game longer than 3 or 4 low tier players together.

 

With those two analytics you can redesing some proper server MMR brackets which grants Access of brackets that should ply together. because very obviously: a 100mmr difference between 1400 and 1500 hardly means much, while 1500 vs 1600 suddely seesm to mena a lot in terms of "game difficulty" since only a very few amount of player seems to make that step. This means its very likely ok when a 1350 plays vs a 1500, because that is not the big difficulty gap by linearity for those 150 MMR delta than it will be between 1500 an 1575 even if this is only 75. 

 

At leats if I see the graphs connections correctly, would be better made 2D.

 

 

 

So whats causing this sudden drop to kill the smooth belly? is that the point people neeed deeper knowledge about the mechanics? Then people need to be educatd by the game how these mechanics work

 

Is this where people have to make groups and play together in teams and teamwork constantly to keep at 1700+? In that case something in the game design has a flaw, because it does not smoothily take new and mostly solo players over into the teamplay component of the game.

 

 

 

You know what?  I've always been a fan of the way the autobalancer/matchmaking in Hawken worked (before the recent experiment).

 

But now, unless something is done to strongly discourage the creation of alt/smurf accounts, I think I'd almost rather see match balancing turned completely off and let it be a free-for-all.

 

I have simply lost my patience with how completely lopsided most matches have become due to the auto-balancer trying to do it's job correctly, but not being able to because half of the people in the match are essentially lying to it about their skill level.  That's really what creating an alt/smurf account does - tells the matchmaker that a player is a much lower MMR than they really are, so it builds teams based on fake stats.

 

And having to read the chat after matches - where all these alts/smurfs are like "WOOT, I'm only level 7 and I'm already rocking first place!" and you see the podium for the winning team where the top 5 players are all below level 10, yet level 30's are at the bottom of the podium.  Nobody who has played more than 6 months of this game is gonna be fooled - we know the difference between how a newer player and a veteran player moves.

 

I know this is an old rant and that we stopped trying to care about it months ago... but it just keeps getting worse and worse by the day and I long for a return to balanced matches.

 

I think that random team assigning with no attempt at balance would be more likely to create a balanced team and better than the mess that alt accounts make of it right now.

 

 

Sry I need to disagree, I ruled the top quite a lot after I finished my first 4 games and got used to the games basic mechanics. It felt quite weird, because in most games this is not the case, and as a newbie you get mostly trashed or you make slowly progress. But hawken seems to have a non linear lerning curve. The start is maybe quite taugh to get used to basic controls. Which is why I could handle it well, and outplay many others even longer in the game. Knowledge, that probably comes form general gamign experience, especially in (arena) shooters.

And then the graph obviosuly shows a second steep hurdle, thats when people go from 1500 to 1600. Thats probably the point where tactics kick in, and those understanding tactics and startegy can proceed. While the rest, mostly casuals running and gunning around seem not to enter at all.

Edited by Lily_from_animove, 15 May 2015 - 05:50 AM.