33 replies to this topic

[BluetoothBoy]

So, I've come across several comments from various sources now asking when new content is going to be released, when some of the more glaring issues of HAWKEN will be removed. To all of those people asking:

 

It'll be a while longer!

 

Not only did Reloaded only just get the game two months ago, but we have no idea how big of a team they've delegated to this game (if anyone does know, please enlighten me). Reloaded was a company before HAWKEN came into its possession, and thus they have other games to take care of as well. Another thing some fail to realize is that the backend to this game came as-is - there's no manual for them to refer to, as far as I know. If I had to guess, they have some code comments, but I know just how hard it can be to reverse-engineer code that someone else wrote - especially when it is an integrated part of a larger project. Getting familiar with the game - both its front-end and back-end - is a huge task that doesn't involve the community much at all. Tiggs and Josh have been doing an excellent job as it is keeping us updated with progress, involving the community in decisions and data collection, and even releasing old, inaccessible goodies as a substitution for not having content ready to release right now.

 

Aside from all that, I'm not sure you all realize just how much time it takes to design & create a model to work with a pre-existing bone rig and animation set, then go through the tedious process of giving it its textures. And the difficulty increases when you are trying to make the models and textures fit the style of pre-existing ones - models and textures the guys at Reloaded didn't even make! For all we know, they might not even have someone on the team yet who is capable of making these models and textures.

 

Anyway, TL;DR: You can't rush progress. Especially when the progress is already going pretty quickly. HAWKEN isn't to a point at which it needs to be massively advertised to bring in new players - and we can see that Reloaded hasn't started doing that yet. Most of the game promotion has been within the existing community. It's harder for us who have been here a while without seeing much happen, but be patient - I'm sure the devs have lots of good things in store. ;)

[ropefish]

[AsianJoyKiller]

Like I said in another thread, it takes years to get a game to a point where it's playable. What makes people think new devs can just hop into a system they don't know, and start pumping out content as if they've had years to get familiar with the system? This isn't going to be a process of just a few months. It's likely going to take closer to a year, if not more.

As for modeling/texturing. It largely depends on the skill of who's making it, and the approval process it has to go through.

 

You've got to concept a design, which can take a few hours, especially if you have to go through an art lead to approve designs. After that gets approved, then you have to create a hipoly model, which can take a few hours, even for extremely skilled modelers. Then the lowpoly model, which can often take even more time than the hipoly, as you have limits on how many polys can be used, have to make it fit inside the hipoly. Then bake out the hipoly details to a special texture map that makes lowpolys look much more detailed than they actually are. Then you have to spend time flattening out all the surfaces of a mech onto a plane so you can export a "blueprint" of all the surfaces that need to be textured. Then, of course, you have to spend time painting all the textures. Then you have to spend time going back and forth between Photoshop and the 3D programs making sure everything is lining up rights.

And usually, at the same time you have someone doing texture work, you'd have another artist working on rigging (on of the most tedious and distasteful tasks there is in 3D animation if you as me). And another who handles animating when the rigger is done. Of course, animation itself is a slow, slow process, where a few seconds of animation can easily take a few hours of work. Though luckily in this case many rigs and animation cycles are already finished and (hopefully) could be essentially cut and pasted to new models, drastically cutting down on work involved.

So if they had a single person working on this (Which itself can be problematic, as animators tend to be a bit specialized in what they can do. At the very least, they'll have preferences to what they like to do, and will be faster and more competent in some areas than they are in others.), it could take a few full days of work to put out a quality product.

[Loglino]

[IareDave]

As far as I'm aware Reloaded is still in the process of building a dev team. Josh n' crew have made amazing progress thus far and I'll still continue to play as I have had for years, and even during the dev silence.

[BluetoothBoy]

Like I said in another thread, it takes years to get a game to a point where it's playable. What makes people think new devs can just hop into a system they don't know, and start pumping out content as if they've had years to get familiar with the system? This isn't going to be a process of just a few months. It's likely going to take closer to a year, if not more.

As for modeling/texturing. It largely depends on the skill of who's making it, and the approval process it has to go through.

 

You've got to concept a design, which can take a few hours, especially if you have to go through an art lead to approve designs. After that gets approved, then you have to create a hipoly model, which can take a few hours, even for extremely skilled modelers. Then the lowpoly model, which can often take even more time than the hipoly, as you have limits on how many polys can be used, have to make it fit inside the hipoly. Then bake out the hipoly details to a special texture map that makes lowpolys look much more detailed than they actually are. Then you have to spend time flattening out all the surfaces of a mech onto a plane so you can export a "blueprint" of all the surfaces that need to be textured. Then, of course, you have to spend time painting all the textures. Then you have to spend time going back and forth between Photoshop and the 3D programs making sure everything is lining up rights.

And usually, at the same time you have someone doing texture work, you'd have another artist working on rigging (on of the most tedious and distasteful tasks there is in 3D animation if you as me). And another who handles animating when the rigger is done. Of course, animation itself is a slow, slow process, where a few seconds of animation can easily take a few hours of work. Though luckily in this case many rigs and animation cycles are already finished and (hopefully) could be essentially cut and pasted to new models, drastically cutting down on work involved.

So if they had a single person working on this (Which itself can be problematic, as animators tend to be a bit specialized in what they can do. At the very least, they'll have preferences to what they like to do, and will be faster and more competent in some areas than they are in others.), it could take a few full days of work to put out a quality product.

Quite honestly, if only one guy were doing it, I would give them upwards of a week to put out a new model (if it were a whole mech, and not just a weapon or item). A couple of reasons why.

 

Revisions: In this line of work, you rarely get it right on the first try.

 

Creative ruts: You can't expect (most) people to work around the clock on this sort of thing and not run out of mental juice. Usually this process involves breaks and working on other things for a while. As someone who tends to have a minimum of five various projects running at once, I know how 'stuck' you can get if you're forced to only work on one continuously.

 

Debugging: This is a HUGE part of game design. Designers (of course) want to make sure that their product is what they imagined giving to their customers before they give it to them. "But Blue, what could there be to debug on a simple model?" Well, lots. A short list might include texture/UV mishaps, weird clipping issues, scaling problems, z-depth issues, lighting/shading issues (although this one should be minimal with any competent modeler) and improper matching to the current bone rig structure. Any of these things could go wrong, and it often takes a while to find a solution.

 

Here's an example of a model I made. While I'm by no means the fastest modeler in the world, I'm certainly not slow, either. Overall, this took me at least 48 hours to model, animate, get in the game I was modding, debug/adjust, reimport, rinse, and repeat before it was finally done. That's on the low end. And this didn't even require texturing, one of the lengthier pieces of the puzzle when it comes to this sort of work (especially with HAWKEN's amazing texturing - it takes skill and patience to get textures that good).

 

 

I would say it's a stretch to have one guy do it in a week, even. Sure, a committed worker could do it just fine, but it's not realistic. I would say at least a week and a half, or two. And hopefully, they'll have more than one guy. It'd be amazing if they could find someone good at modeling AND texturing.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Quite honestly, if only one guy were doing it, I would give them upwards of a week to put out a new model (if it were a whole mech, and not just a weapon or item). A couple of reasons why.

You're probably right. I was thinking of a certain individual when I was writing this, and honestly, the guy's a monster. Probably the reason he ended up as an art director.

[Grollourdo]

I agree with you guys

GIVE DA DEVS SOME WUV AND BE PATIENT!!!!! XD

[Merl61]

As far as I'm aware Reloaded is still in the process of building a dev team. Josh n' crew have made amazing progress thus far and I'll still continue to play as I have had for years, and even during the dev silence.

You da real mvp. And actually hawken's mvp so.......yeah

[Grollourdo]

You da real mvp. And actually hawken's mvp so.......yeah

What's MVP?

[BaronSaturday]

As far as I'm aware Reloaded is still in the process of building a dev team. Josh n' crew have made amazing progress thus far and I'll still continue to play as I have had for years, and even during the dev silence.

See. Unlike a certain someone that runs around the forum being obnoxious and toxic, Iaredave, who is ranked number one in the entire world in HAWKEN gives valuable feedback, remains humble, and doesn't berate people because they like to min/max or use a certain item that has been arbitrarily banned from the games premier competitive tournament. Thank you dave for being awesome even at the top!

=]

[plons]

i'm happy to see this game gonna have a new life ......;

 

started to play again 

[devotion]

Unlike a certain someone... Iaredave... gives valuable feedback, remains humble, and doesn't berate people

i found the funniest post of the day, see you guys again in 24 hours

[CraftyDus]

Nothing about restricting the scanner in TPG was "arbitrary"
It's really by considering the consensus of the participants that determined the established rules, which reflects well on Xacius and Nept as Heads of S1 and S2.
Leaving the scanner unrestricted despite community sentiments would have been truly arbitrary.
Dave, sign this kids mousepad already. He's really into you right now.

[BaronSaturday]

Nothing about restricting the scanner in TPG was "arbitrary"
It's really by considering the consensus of the participants that determined the established rules, which reflects well on Xacius and Nept as Heads of S1 and S2.
Leaving the scanner unrestricted despite community sentiments would have been truly arbitrary.
Dave, sign this kids mousepad already. He's really into you right now.

You're just mad cause my Mohawk is better than yours. Or are you mad cause I'm not into you?

@Nept: No one complained. Just, someone may have noted a thing that someone likes to hold over people so they might continue to implant themselves into some club that may or may not exist.

As for the OP. I can't agree more! Keep it up Reloaded.

Edited by BaronSaturday, 07 May 2015 - 03:46 AM.

[CrimsonKaim]

It is a matter ot resources. The facts are facts no matter tze circumstances. There is a reason for the fall and so far nothing has changed which means the reason for the fall is still present.
It has no use to ask for understanding amongst the players. Actings are needed, not words. Words will not save anything.

[IareDave]

[LaurenEmily]

Are you the Fresh prince of Hawken ?

[Aregon]

Are you the Fresh prince of Hawken ?

*Bel-ken

[Grollourdo]

Wow lol I'm too puny to get my question answered lol XD

Love dat gif XD

[CraftyDus]

These devs are very active, engaged, and are keeping things exciting enough for most of us

 

my Mohawk is better than yours

 

 this is what arbitrary means

 

[BaronSaturday]

These devs are very active, engaged, and are keeping things exciting enough for most of us


this is what arbitrary means

No no. I think the word you're looking for is empirical. As in factual, proven, evidenced, etc.

[CraftyDus]

No no. I think the word you're looking for is empirical. As in factual, proven, evidenced, etc.

 

guess you're going to have to show us your mohawk then

[BaronSaturday]

guess you're going to have to show us your mohawk then

Buy me a drink first, jesus...

Spoiler

Now everyone knows... I'm sexy as fuzzy bunny...

Edited by BaronSaturday, 07 May 2015 - 11:02 AM.

[PeanutFox]

-Snip-

Blender Cycles?

[Xacius]

Buy me a drink first, jesus...

Spoiler

Now everyone knows... I'm sexy as fuzzy bunny...

LOL

[BaronSaturday]

LOL

See. I'm so damned sexy that Xacius is hysterical with laughter. Breath Xacius. I know it's hard to accept the living embodiment of Adonis. It was hard for me to come to terms with...

[CraftyDus]

Buy me a drink first, jesus...

Spoiler

Now everyone knows... I'm sexy as fuzzy bunny...

 

 

See. I'm so damned sexy that Xacius is hysterical with laughter. Breath Xacius. I know it's hard to accept the living embodiment of Adonis. It was hard for me to come to terms with...

 

What you don't realize is you landed in a gaming community with a ridiculous level of hot people in it.

 

 People are stupidly attractive, intelligent, FUNNY, and ultimately magnanimous here.

 

GG

[BaronSaturday]

What you don't realize is you landed in a gaming community with a ridiculous level of hot people in it.

People are stupidly attractive, intelligent, FUNNY, and ultimately magnanimous here.

GG

I don't disagree with that.

[CraftyDus]

I don't disagree with that.

 

Well you can't.

It's factual, proven, evidenced, etc.

[Leonhardt]

Well you can't.
It's factual, proven, evidenced, etc.

Your logic is flawless. Have a medal.

[BaronSaturday]

Well you can't.
It's factual, proven, evidenced, etc.

Right.

[BluetoothBoy]

Blender Cycles?

You sir are correct. ;)

[DieselCat]

What's MVP?

 

Most Venomous Parasite ....take 100mg of Mebendazole twice a day for three days, then call me in the morning. 

 

*+