208 replies to this topic

[Grollourdo]

Lawl you two XD

[GalaxyRadio]

My honest thoughts of the tech is post earlier more then one time, this time i was just trying to help someone playing the tech as much as i like. I think there is nothing wrong with that to give some tipps ;)

 

Galaxy Radio

[WillyW]

I have a few suggestions for the tech. They are pretty simple.

Give the technician TWO different Helix weapons.

1) The primary is a grenade launcher that shoots self-detonating repair charges. However, if the technician hits itself with its own charge, then it causes high amounts of heat. The repair charges heal everything, both friendly mechs and enemy mechs.

2) The secondary is an armor stealing torch. It allows the technician to steal armor off enemy mechs, rather than just doing damage.

These changes would force the technician to keep a safe distance from team mates; allowing the chance for enemy mechs to shoot them more easily while also giving enough distance to prevent the tech + incinerator combo. But if the enemy mech gets too close then the technician can defend itself by stealing armor and repairing at the same time. The enemy mech can also choose to rush forward and have a chance to get healed by the technician's repair charges.

Edited by WillyW, 29 April 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[BaronSaturday]

Everyone has different playstyle, and very often its not good to stay with another teammate until you die for sure.

1. in TDM you both died and you knew before it happens -> enemy get 2 kills, you none
2. in TDM you both retreat together, join forces with teammates, do damage until then, push back with the rest, maybe you are lucky and get them all together with 1 sacrifice on your side 6 VS 1
3. in TDM your teammate dies, you knew and instead of trying to help, which ends in 2 kills for the enemy, you leave to join forces with the rest of your team

When i played tech the first weeks or month, i was desperate trying to help my teammates, even if i know iam going to die if i do. Now i play with what i got from playing on a specific map, try to get a better overview and minimize the chance getting attacked from side/back by watching thse spots for my team (Q Mark) and i retreat, if i know my teammate is just running into his death, so i better try to help elsewhere or retreat, if we are alone and the rest died and i don't join that "dive into your death thing".

Its fine, if you think that way, but maybe you should think about the point, why your k/d ratio with tech is that low. If you die, the enemy get 1 kill or more time to get AA/Missle and you are lost for your team either for 10-20seconds after you relaunched and get to them, maybe that is the time where your enemy get 1 or 2 more kills, because you were not there.

Try some playstyle, before you decide to go with 1. Only heal and concentrate on spotting enemy, do battles yourself if you feel you have to, try to heal desperate some mates or try to retreat and so on. You would be suprise, how effective this could be :)

Galaxy Radio

I was talking about in Siege and MA. Our match was a MA. And it was 2/3. It's not like staying alive was meaningful because there was no one else to heal.

[Grollourdo]

I have a few suggestions for the tech. They are pretty simple.

Give the technician TWO different Helix weapons.

1) The primary is a grenade launcher that shoots self-detonating repair charges. However, if the technician hits itself with its own charge, then it causes high amounts of heat. The repair charges heal everything, both friendly mechs and enemy mechs.

2) The secondary is an armor stealing torch. It allows the technician to steal armor off enemy mechs, rather than just doing damage.

These changes would would force the technician to keep a safe distance from team mates; allowing the chance for enemy mechs to shoot them more easily while also giving enough distance to prevent the tech + incinerator combo. But if the enemy mech gets too close then the technician can defend itself by stealing armor and repairing at the same time. The enemy mech can also choose to rush forward and have a chance to get healed by the technician's repair charges.

The health vamp already exists...

[AsianJoyKiller]

Usually, I've noticed that people, especially less advanced players, tend to not be able to adapt and are scared of change weather it be playstyle, game mechanics, way of thinking, tactics etc....

What kind of BS reasoning is this?
 

My low-end MMR, the kind I have after not playing for nearly half a year, is over 2100, with my average having been upwards of 2300. Don't try and say that this is an issue of people being unable to adapt and are scared of change.

 

I, and several other players, who are arguing against the Tech's current design, are a generation of Hawken players who are responsible for shaping Hawken strategies and tactics since Alpha. And as the game has changed, we have changed with it. The Flak Brawler meta was largely pioneered by me and less than a half dozen other Brawler players.

Don't try to make this out to be some sort of "you just can't deal with" it sort of thing. It's not. We know how to adapt to it. The strategies that you're trying to tell us how to counter the Tech with? We developed them.

 

We've adapted splendidly. And many of us still do not like the Tech's mechanics.

 

If you want to talk about people not being able to adapt, why don't we look at pro-Tech people?

There are so many people who want the Tech to remain the same they can't even adapt to the idea that the Tech's current mechanics are not the smartest way to go about things. They can't adapt to the idea of anything else besides a healing leash working. They can't adapt to the idea that a steroid ability is one of the least skilled possibilities for an ability. They can't adapt to the idea that healing mechanics besides constant healing could work.

 

So tell me Groll, who here are the ones who are really having a hard time adapting to something different just because they don't like it?
 

Lets face it people healers and medics will always be hated so lets just agree to disagree and move on.

This is obviously an invalid concept. It assumes that if you hate the Tech, you must hate all medics. I enjoy playing medics. When they're well designed. So obviously, you're premise is false, and there's no reason I should agree to disagree and move on.

 

 

IF you see a tech if two of your team focus on him he will be ded fast that is if you cannot do it yourself.  So far a skill is concerned there are some scouts with ac and the speed internals that are godlike ....I am really tired of skill base arguments Any pilot with sufficient skill with Anny mech is going to be hard to deal with .. this is not a reason to remove mechs or weapons.

1) That assumes the Tech will just let himself be killed. A good Tech, even when being focused, won't "just die".

2) Scouts are not "godlike". Decent aim destroys them. Unless the pilot in the Scout is significantly better than you, they are not hard to deal with.

3) You don't argue balanced based on incompetence or someone being better. You base it on people being of equal skill. Otherwise you're not even remotely being objective.

 

 

So i will say it one time .. if you hate the tech come up with an a-calss mech that counters him in some way. (CREATE A SOLUTION)

Rock-paper-scissors counterbalance is the laziest, dumbest, and least creative solution to the problem, which causes as many issues as it solves. I suggest you research the many issues that RPS-balance has, especially when integrating it into a game where much of the design philosophy doesn't follow such balance.

When you suggest a specific counter class, what you are really doing is suggesting a series of balance issues that will cascade and become more problematic as the game adds more mechs and mechanics, not to mention the many issues that would be caused immediately due to the fact that the game was not designed around RPS-balance.

[WillyW]

 

Rock-paper-scissors counterbalance is the laziest, dumbest, and least creative solution to the problem, which causes as many issues as it solves. I suggest you research the many issues that RPS-balance has, especially when integrating it into a game where much of the design philosophy doesn't follow such balance.

When you suggest a specific counter class, what you are really doing is suggesting a series of balance issues that will cascade and become more problematic as the game adds more mechs and mechanics, not to mention the many issues that would be caused immediately due to the fact that the game was not designed around RPS-balance.

 

Rock-paper-scissors balance does not cause issues, as long as it is implemented correctly. The game already allows you to see which mechs each player on the enemy team chooses before the match even begins. What more could you want? Strategy can easily be created, if people wait for the other team to spawn first. You just have to pay attention and not be greedy about which mech you choose if you want to win. TDM is about working together. If you're only good with one mech, then go play regular deathmatch. If you die horribly, then maybe your team was doing something right afterall.

As a veteran Starcraft/Starcraft 2 player, I can safely say that RPS balance works just fine. People just whine and complain and get mad when they choose paper against scissors. You lost? Well maybe you should have paid attention and planned better.

 

Granted, every player may not have every mech. This is especially true for newer players. So its tough to ask someone to choose a mech they don't own.

Edited by WillyW, 29 April 2015 - 12:02 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Rock-paper-scissors balance does not cause issues, as long as it is implemented correctly. The game already allows you to see which mechs each player on the enemy team chooses before the match even begins. What more could you want? Strategy can easily be created, if people wait for the other team to spawn first. You just have to pay attention and not be greedy about which mech you choose if you want to win. TDM is about working together. If you're only good with one mech, then go play regular deathmatch. If you die horribly, then maybe your team was doing something right afterall.

As a veteran Starcraft/Starcraft 2 player, I can safely say that RPS balance works just fine. People just whine and complain and get mad when they choose paper against scissors. You lost? Well maybe you should have paid attention and planned better.

 

Granted, every player may not have every mech. This is especially true for newer players. So its tough to ask someone to choose a mech they don't own.

You're kind of ignoring the huge issue that a game like Starcraft was built with that design philosophy in mind, and it wasn't an exception made to be used as a band-aid fix.

 

Context is important.

[Grollourdo]

What kind of BS reasoning is this?

My low-end MMR, the kind I have after not playing for nearly half a year, is over 2100, with my average having been upwards of 2300. Don't try and say that this is an issue of people being unable to adapt and are scared of change.

I, and several other players, who are arguing against the Tech's current design, are a generation of Hawken players who are responsible for shaping Hawken strategies and tactics since Alpha. And as the game has changed, we have changed with it. The Flak Brawler meta was largely pioneered by me and less than a half dozen other Brawler players.
Don't try to make this out to be some sort of "you just can't deal with" it sort of thing. It's not. We know how to adapt to it. The strategies that you're trying to tell us how to counter the Tech with? We developed them.

We've adapted splendidly. And many of us still do not like the Tech's mechanics.

If you want to talk about people not being able to adapt, why don't we look at pro-Tech people?
There are so many people who want the Tech to remain the same they can't even adapt to the idea that the Tech's current mechanics are not the smartest way to go about things. They can't adapt to the idea of anything else besides a healing leash working. They can't adapt to the idea that a steroid ability is one of the least skilled possibilities for an ability. They can't adapt to the idea that healing mechanics besides constant healing could work.

So tell me Groll, who here are the ones who are really having a hard time adapting to something different just because they don't like it?

This is obviously an invalid concept. It assumes that if you hate the Tech, you must hate all medics. I enjoy playing medics. When they're well designed. So obviously, you're premise is false, and there's no reason I should agree to disagree and move on.

1) That assumes the Tech will just let himself be killed. A good Tech, even when being focused, won't "just die".
2) Scouts are not "godlike". Decent aim destroys them. Unless the pilot in the Scout is significantly better than you, they are not hard to deal with.
3) You don't argue balanced based on incompetence or someone being better. You base it on people being of equal skill. Otherwise you're not even remotely being objective.

Rock-paper-scissors counterbalance is the laziest, dumbest, and least creative solution to the problem, which causes as many issues as it solves. I suggest you research the many issues that RPS-balance has, especially when integrating it into a game where much of the design philosophy doesn't follow such balance.

When you suggest a specific counter class, what you are really doing is suggesting a series of balance issues that will cascade and become more problematic as the game adds more mechs and mechanics, not to mention the many issues that would be caused immediately due to the fact that the game was not designed around RPS-balance.

Wow ... OK I'm sorry if I offended you in any way and I see you have a point... Maybe I think I should rephrase my post? Idk but I am sincerely sorry if I offended you

So what I meant, I was actually talking about the people who find it difficult to deal with a tech and for that only reason want it needed if removed

Now I'm not talking about people who have acctuall knowledge about the tech and all his stats , advantages and disadvantages, those people who put a good opinion and have a reason other than the motif of wanting to win without the obstacle called the tech. I even admire these people who do so.

But yeah I just don't want the people who just want the tech to ho away for their own selfish winnings to influence....

Get what I mean?

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on my other post or even if it's not clear on this post.

And again I'm truely sorry if I offended you in any way.

Groll