24 replies to this topic

[EM1O]

get rid of this stupid involuntary switch bullsh!t. not funny. forcing is for a quick dump and find another game.

fix it.

i don't play this.

 

not a good "feature".

Edited by em1o, 27 June 2015 - 10:18 PM.

[cavefishes]

Not really sure what the problem is. Are you talking about someone just getting switched if nobody volunteers? 

 

Somebody has to move over, and if nobody wants to the only fair way to do it is have the server pick. Volunteer or you'll get voluntold.

Try not to get too attached to your team, especially in a situation where one team is stomping the other. Just think of it as a chance to help your new team pull it back!

 

You get a XP bonus and everything! 

[spinningchurro]

I agree with this; it should not be a forced change. Also, the bonus for switching teams should be 250+ HC (equal to a daily win), not a paltry 50 HC. The current bonus gives me no desire to switch if I'm going to lose the match (likely). Give players an incentive to switch teams, and they'll do it voluntarily.

Just think of it as a chance to help your new team pull it back!
 
You get a XP bonus and everything! 

Yeah no, the bonuses do not outweigh the loss of potential XP and HC that come with winning a match. Auto-balance is especially infuriating if it happens with less than 2 minutes to go in the match, which has happened to me more than once. There's no reason to switch the top player in one team to the losing team when the match is done.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

I agree with this; it should not be a forced change. Also, the bonus for switching teams should be 250+ HC (equal to a daily win), not a paltry 50 HC. The current bonus gives me no desire to switch if I'm going to lose the match (likely). Give players an incentive to switch teams, and they'll do it voluntarily.

 

Wait, did they switch it back? O_o It is 250 HC.

 

Also I don't think enough people know about the bonus to actually do it.

 

Maybe, it gives the player +50 HC if it is an involuntary switch and 250 if it's voluntary?

 

 

Yeah no, the bonuses do not outweigh the loss of potential XP and HC that come with winning a match. Auto-balance is especially infuriating if it happens with less than 2 minutes to go in the match, which has happened to me more than once. There's no reason to switch the top player in one team to the losing team when the match is done.

 

The HC bonus for winning a match is 20 or 50 though. Getting 250 instead of the 50 is quite an incentive. Only bad I see with switching right now is that you get a smaller score and less EXP - but it's become ridiculously easy to level up as it is so I don't see this as a massive disadvantage.

[EM1O]

i don't care about the bonus, i am playing with a team i have dedicated myself to helping win a match, stomp or not, win or lose, tight or imbalanced i don't care. i'm cranking along and suddenly the game freezes and a blurb tells me i'm being switched to the other team.

 i actually used to voluntarily switch, until it became obvious that it was totally without "Honor" in the field. If you have a team that is getting slaughtered, and it is hopeless, point-award everyone and reboot the match. for fuxsakes. Nobody "has" to switch.

that's rhetorical crap. who put this garbage function into this game? ADH? not here. make it go away just like they did.

F5 "exit"

find another game.

this shall be my solution EVERY time this happens. and i doubt i'm alone in this opinion. don't coddle me with "Reward/Bonus" BS. i'm gone.

 

Phuck your autobalance.

 

gawDAMM this pisses me off when it happens (and it happened again tonite). it's been going on for way too long. get rid of it.

NOW.

Edited by em1o, 27 June 2015 - 10:23 PM.

[spinningchurro]

Wait, did they switch it back? O_o It is 250 HC.

It's been a while since I saw it, several months. I hope it got changed; that's be real nice to see the devs paying attention that stuff like that.
 
 

i don't care about the bonus, i am playing with a team i have dedicated myself to helping win a match, stomp or not, win or lose, tight or imbalanced i don't care. i'm cranking along and suddenly the game freezes and a blurb tells me i'm being switched to the other team.

I agree whole-heartedly

F5 "exit"
find another game.

There's an "exit" command? What's the difference between that and "disconnect"?

[CrimsonKaim]

Yes yes yes yes yeeeeeeeees!!! This damn force switch is one of the main reason why I used to leave games.

Pwning the other team hard and being part of it right before the game ends - nope, die alone scrubs, not worth my presence.

[EM1O]

"disconnect" drops you out of the game you are in (but immediately sets you up in your new switched team), leaves you hung up in the same game under your same log-in, without removing the liability of an abandoned team penalty. "exit" dumps the whole game just like it would if you pulled the plug on your computer, without you suffering any negative effects (loss of data, site and personal login, penalties, MMR hit), and immediately sets you up for a new match sync.

Next time YOU get involuntarily switched, hit F5, type "exit", relog into your favorite account, and Rock On!

Edited by em1o, 27 June 2015 - 11:00 PM.

[spinningchurro]

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

[JackVandal]

i dissagree, fairness is one of the things hawken is trying to go for, hence the emphasis on NOT pay to win, and i think by that same card, if a team is down 2 guys, (that does seem to be the minimum, correct me if not) then i think its fine to switch a player to try and balance. think of it as an honor the game thinks you so capable. personally i try to have a good time along with everyone else in a server, and if me getting switched can prevent a game that's a stomp, or swing the balance back im all for it, even if im not going to win.

 

Im not trying to tell you what to play for or how to have fun, its just my thoughts, though i think leaving mid match is not cool, i find it to be one of the biggest problems with the matchmaker, especially when said player is one of the big guy in the server, because now whoever the matchmaker was balancing them against has no counter, and in my experience it usually leads to the emptying of that server in a few rounds as the balance deteriorates as players leave and join.

 

 

Edit: pardon my grammar and spelling, its late, im tired.

Edited by JackVandal, 27 June 2015 - 11:23 PM.

[EM1O]

all altruistic blathering aside, you switch my ass, i'm gone. case closed.

[Panzermanathod]

I don't think HC/exp is important to the ones who leave when switched. Because they are going "I'd rather have nothing than go on another team".

 

Me, it can be annoying but not "quit the game" annoying. But I don't have such team loyalty that switching to another side ruins me.

[MomOw]

I don't mind team switch as it is for pub TDM, but I do agree that something could be done to have a functionnal Team TDM.

Maybe a spectator mode when teams are uneven and add some sort of rolling/voting to let all the players play.

 

Teams becoming unbalanced due to players joining should also be fixed.

[Aelita]

gosh its early. so please forgive if this is bs.

I allways had a bigger problems with unbalanced games where there is no way of switching. Lets say one team leads by 20 k and only has one more player, or the player count is even, or they have even one less and still are kicking. Some players find it boring to just stomp. 

Whatabout a voting thing as MomOw suggested. If i may ... Where i (beeing in the stompers team) can pick a weaker player in the oposite team and ask if he wants to switch places with me.
"Player StompstompElite wants to swap places with you. Press F100 to agree."
Does that make sense?

[Aregon]

The thing with not having it forced is that there will be players not wanting to change teams. Forcing prevents this. And it is just dumb to believe that we as a community are all fair and share, because several times both here and on the old forums we have clearly shown otherwise.

[Aelita]

But if there is no possibility for doing the right thing nobody can do the right thing. ((Nobody is dumb...naive maybe.)) Not against the forced thing entirely, but maybe before that happens we could have another way and the forced switching as the last consequence?

[Bad_BennyAK]

If you form a team,  before you join , you can't be separated from your team involuntarily, I believe. 

[Hek_naw]

I believe every time a team switch happens, regardless of how skillful the switcher is, the team situation changes for both teams. Considering there is now less time and less score margin to finish the game, together with a (most often than not) score advantage to one team, the entire match changes considerably.

 

Wouldn't it be nicer if both the game time limit and score limit raised by an amount, every time there was a team switch? This would add extra time to finish the round, which would be a cushion for the player-changing impact on both teams.

 

And the player being changed wouldn't feel like a tool being moved around, instead being the reason for a change of tides in the sea of the battle!

[JeffMagnum]

The solution is to stop worrying about wins and losses and embrace the One True Stat that is MMR. 

[HepTagoN]

U would rather play 3v5? I bet u wouldnt event think about sitting out to make it at least 3v4. Guys, we got fakname 2.0 here. They are replicating!!!!!!!

How can u enjoy playing 3v5 lel. or 2v4, whatever.

 

No worries, i can assure you, devs WONT remove this feature.

 

huehuehuehuehuehuehuehueheuehuehueheuehuehuehehehehehhehehehhe

 

[-Tj-]

I think the autoswitch-on-death should be removed, bare minimum. The volunteer message should probably make it known that switching will result in an HC bonus, and show how much. The volunteer system should also show on-screen that someone has volunteered to switch when someone activates it, not when it switches, so more players don't quit thinking things are for sure going to get worse since their team is down two players.

 

There are actually times where you don't want to switch, and the involuntary switch can cause a lot of issues. Here are some examples:

 

- Your 5 player team is losing, badly, against a 4 player team. The opposing team is just too well-coordinated, and you and your team are working hard to keep things going. Nobody on your team has left, meaning they're trying to stick it out, and maybe they like the team they're in. Someone on the 4 player team leaves involuntarily, possibly by a connection drop or game crash. The 4 player team is now 3 player, and still winning by a wide margin. Nobody on the losing team wants to switch because they still want to try and pull through it... but someone gets autoswitched, either when they get killed or after a period of time. That player, of course, would be pretty annoyed ("wtf? dammit! I didn't want to switch, wtffff???"). The player who got dropped manages to get back into the match, but since the teams are now 4 v 4, the rejoining player gets put on the losing team. That player won't be happy about that, either. Again, this is with the understanding that the losing team players want to be there. A lot of times the player who switches is just happy they get switched to the winning team.

 

- You're a higher rank player who happens to be helping your 5 player team dominate the 6 player team. The 6 player team decides "fawk this zhit" and three leave. You volunteer to switch, hoping to be able to bring the other team back, or at least back enough to not look like such a bad loss, but a low MMR player or newb gets killed and autoswitched. That player is going to be understandably pissed. A higher rank player may see this as an opportunity to wreck for good reason, but a lower rank player or new player might just see this as BS.

 

- Three higher-MMR players are in a match with an even number of players. The others are really low-MMR. Inevitably, two of those players will be on one team, and one on the other (sometimes the one with the highest MMR). The game starts, the high MMR player on the other team leaves at some point. The two high-MMR player team wrecks the team now short a player, and short on MMR, so someone QQs. One or both of the high MMR players on the same team volunteer, but the balancer decides neither of them are worthy of the switch for some reason (usually because someone dies before it's able to choose). The two high MMR players now either have to hold back to keep the score close, or the game gets really unbalanced.

 

There are more cases, but those are the ones that came to mind quickly. Personally, I don't care if it stays or goes, I usually volunteer if the other team is losing fairly badly. However, there are times where I don't want to switch, usually because of the first case I described.

[teeth_03]

Autobalance has been around since the dawn of multiplayer PC gaming. We're you born in an Xbox factory?

[StubbornPuppet]

And it will NOT auto-force somebody to switch in the last 2 minutes, like was said above.  It doesn't force anyone during the last few minutes.

 

The feature is absolutely necessary.

 

What would be nice is if they could debug whatever causes a player to NOT be switched when they are hitting F12 to volunteer.

[manthi]

 

The feature is absolutely necessary.

 

agreed 100% 

the main purpose is to try to rebalanced the game to make it more enjoyable for everybody

the f12 key didn't work for me, so i changed it for f8, and it is working, i think the reason is maybe a conflict with another app that also has f12 bind, i know afterburner is using the f12 in my case

[Flifang]

A problem I have is that until somebody spawns team switching can't take place anyway. Say you start the game even, but one of your members is afk and hasn't spawned yet. You are then helplessly down one person till they decide to join the world of hawken or they get booted for idling. The time it takes to get booted for idling can pretty much determine a winner in tdm.