22 replies to this topic

[OdinTheWise]

i think one of the best things to generate new players is not game play features or anything like that, because look at COD. what hawken needs is good promotion and inform people its under new management. we need more people aware of hawken and what it is. get people in the door and then lock it behind them so they cant leave.

[Interrobang87]

while i value your opinion i think you are being rather short sighted - you can spend millions on advertising to get thousands of people to take a look but if the "features or anything like that" are not there they will just leave right back out the proverbial revolving door.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Isn't that what just happened to ADH?  They had a massive social media and advertising campaign with that web series that never panned out.   Look where it got Meteor and Adhesive.  What we need is solid content, friendly and inviting higher level players, an active playerbase, and other stuff.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, 25 March 2015 - 01:05 PM.

[crockrocket]

 get people in the door and then lock it behind them so they cant leave.

Locking it behind them is where I think Hawken falls (fatally) short at the moment. 

 

Player retention can be increased by fixing a few things. First and foremost, revamp the pricing and alleviate the grind, possibly by making it easier for new players to earn HC. At the same time, eliminate "n00b traps" in the store. By that I mean make it more obvious what players are about to spend their money on, so that they don't buy things they don't need. These issues are also closely tied to the p2w misconception, and adequately fixing them will mitigate that (though you will never fully eliminate that viewpoint for a f2p).

 

Next, fix the tutorial. Quite frankly, players don't really learn jack from the tutorial. All they really learn is information they could get from looking up the key bindings. Possibly delay the other game modes on a leveling basis, and provide a mode-based tutorial upon unlock. This will A. make the new game mode seem that much cooler and B. make new players less incompetent at those modes. Further down the line, again with a level based unlock, provide an "advanced tactics" tutorial that covers more game play tactics and strategy. Don't make this one mandatory though.

 

Finally, and this on is difficult, try to fix matchmaking. I won't go into detail here, since there is already IareDave's thread, but I have a couple quick thoughts. First, until player base increases, increase the distance to which you are locked out of a match. I would also suggest raising the new account mmr back to 1500. Both of these are probably pretty polarizing though (as we have seen in Dave's thread). Lastly, add an incentive for remaining in the same server for consecutive matches, re: my salvage suggestion.

[OdinTheWise]

Isn't that what just happened to ADH?  They had a massive social media and advertising campaign with that web series that never panned out.   Look where it got Meteor and Adhesive.  What we need is solid content, friendly and inviting higher level players, an active playerbase, and other stuff.

no, adh did almost no advertising 

[Sylhiri]

no, adh did almost no advertising 

 

Well I wouldn't say that. They did do a TV appearence and went to at least one gaming convention.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Generating players isn't the issue. Remember how many thousands of players we were pulling on some of the big patches? Making it to the front page of the currently most played games on Steam?

The problem has always been keeping players.

[palad1ne]

while i value your opinion i think you are being rather short sighted - you can spend millions on advertising to get thousands of people to take a look but if the "features or anything like that" are not there they will just leave right back out the proverbial revolving door.

Best example for good marketing and bad game content is titanfall. Nice gfx but boring like hell.

[Superkamikazee]

Let's get a solid, feature complete game going here. Growth can come later, and it probably will on it's own if the game is good enough.

[SigmaOmega]

Let's get a solid, feature complete game going here. Growth can come later, and it probably will on it's own if the game is good enough.

On top of this. I am sure that with a lot us die hard players. Our own advertising is the best advertising. Not to mention, if a good tournamant is streamed properly with popular streamer. It would help as well. I guess the point is, take some of the good features from other successful games that are competitive and adapt them to Hawken.

[Bazookagofer]

Game needs promotion but it also needs content to keep players with the game. To be honest I think the new developers should do what the old developers wanted to do. Add one new mech and map every month or two. Furthermore, I hope these developers don't make gigantic updates and instead focus on small weekly based updates since it is easier to balance the game then.

Edited by Bazookagofer, 26 March 2015 - 05:20 PM.

[SmaCkexe]

no, adh did almost no advertising 

Actually Meteor spent a metric ton on advertising and promotion and social events to raise awareness.  The issue is that they got away from the roots of the game that made it so popular early one.  The switch from skill trees to the current setup was a big no no and lost a ton of players.  The game was super fun early on and every change they made seemed to just kill it.

[Odra]

Appeal to the majority of players, not just fans of the Mech niche.

Increase retention the same way successful franchises keep players engaged.

 

Reloaded should have access to non-biased data giving them a clear idea of what they have on their hands, for now they should put current feedback from the forum on the backburner to avoid creating another non-inviting environment.

 

Once they have released a patch, displayed some modest advertising and gained some newcomers they should look at gameplay data from all players and see what the middle ground is, rather than catering to a specific group.

 

I am avoiding Hawken until I see a patch/update from Reloaded, as I see no reason to help inflate the player-count until they show how serious they are.

[Mergaz]

First, improve existing mechanical in the game to make it a imersive FPS that can keep the player base. For example add more immersion elements to make the player really think you're driving a mech with several tons would be a good start: modular damage, movement pattern according to the actual size of mechs, armor with real resistance, different types of ammunition, manual repair of individual parts [and combat system against internal fire  would be good elements to add more immersion in the game.

I just hope real change because the DEV team continue to ignore the feedback from players is only condemning this game to a new failure.

My contribution to show goodwill: http://steamcommunit...49824281392188/

Edited by Mergaz, 27 March 2015 - 04:33 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

 

First, improve existing mechanical in the game to make it a imersive FPS that can keep the player base. For example add more immersion elements to make the player really think you're driving a mech with several tons would be a good start: modular damage, movement pattern according to the actual size of mechs, armor with real resistance, different types of ammunition, manual repair of individual parts [and combat system against internal fire  would be good elements to add more immersion in the game.

I just hope real change because the DEV team continue to ignore the feedback from players is only condemning this game to a new failure.

My contribution to show goodwill: http://steamcommunit...49824281392188/

 

This very much runs counter to the core values of Hawken gameplay. You're looking for another game entirely. This would make Hawken a direct competitor to MWO. Basically a clone game.

Not only would you alienate almost the entire current player base, but then you'd have to compete with an already established franchise that is much, much, much more well known. You'd also further destroy any confidence that people had in the name Hawken, and strengthen the idea that Hawken is a game that can't decide what it wants to be and will always be in development hell.

Also "immersive" doesn't not equal "simulation".

[bacon_avenger]

First, improve existing mechanical in the game to make it a imersive FPS that can keep the player base. For example add more immersion elements to make the player really think you're driving a mech with several tons would be a good start: modular damage, movement pattern according to the actual size of mechs, armor with real resistance, different types of ammunition, manual repair of individual parts [and combat system against internal fire  would be good elements to add more immersion in the game.

There is already a game that adheres to the western view of mechs that has these features, it's called Mechwarrior Online.
 
Hawken was never intended to be like this, it was originally designed to be a mix of the western style 'mechs' (big walking tanks) and eastern 'mecha' (fast moving armour suits).
 
I don't want to see modular damage in Hawken.  If I wanted to have it, I'd be playing MWO.
 

I just hope real change because the DEV team continue to ignore the feedback from players is only condemning this game to a new failure.
My contribution to show goodwill: http://steamcommunit...49824281392188/

Many of the changes ADH/MTR made were, supposedly, based on player feedback.  Many speculate that if this is true, that they were listening to the wrong group.

 

One of the major things that drove away a lot of players were the sweeping changes that were made to the game, such as the ascension patch and it's introduction of the so-called tuning tree.  Many others left after those were removed.

 

So really, it goes both ways.  Right now, I have to agree that adding major changes like your suggestion would be a bad thing to do.  Besides, from what has been said, Reloaded is concentrating on getting their heads wrapped around the current code base.  Once they have it down, then we can, hopefully, start seeing fixes for the current bugs and glitches, then content and perhaps other changes.

 

(EDIT: Minor typos)

Edited by bacon_avenger, 27 March 2015 - 05:14 PM.

[Mergaz]

This very much runs counter to the core values of Hawken gameplay. You're looking for another game entirely. This would make Hawken a direct competitor to MWO. Basically a clone game.

Not only would you alienate almost the entire current player base, but then you'd have to compete with an already established franchise that is much, much, much more well known. You'd also further destroy any confidence that people had in the name Hawken, and strengthen the idea that Hawken is a game that can't decide what it wants to be and will always be in development hell.

Also "immersive" doesn't not equal "simulation".

This is the problem... Hawken avoids explore an public forced to play MWO because currently there is not a game to rival it on the market, although Heavy Gear Assault proves quite promising. Moreover, WoT is arcade game, but with all imersive elements of my post and MILLIONS of players. The truth is that Hawken is limited to crumbs when you could be with the whole cake. He needs to stop thinking small and invest in the attack of the largest market, because after all is a F2P that needs many, many players.

I personally prefer two game modes: one with the current type of gameplay and other realistic that could really fight for the number of players who Hawken need to stay alive. The arcade and realistic could coexist in the same game to increase the public.

Edited by Mergaz, 27 March 2015 - 05:53 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

This is the problem... Hawken avoids explore an public forced to play MWO because currently there is not a game to rival it on the market, although Heavy Gear Assault proves quite promising. Moreover, WoT is arcade game, but with all imersive elements of my post and MILLIONS of players. The truth is that Hawken is limited to crumbs when you could be with the whole cake. He needs to stop thinking small and invest in the attack of the largest market, because after all is a F2P that needs many, many players.

I personally prefer two game modes: one with the current type of gameplay and other realistic that could really fight for the number of players who Hawken need to stay alive. The arcade and realistic could coexist in the same game to increase the public.

You keep making this unfounded assumption that Hawken could magically garner, and hold, attention if it became a rival to MWO.

Where is your proof that this would actually be the case? Where is the evidence that Hawken would do better sharing the same fanbase as MWO as opposed to building a solid niche fanbase of its own? You keep prophesying as if making Hawken into a sim would magically make it sucessful and able to compete with a well known preexisitng title, but there's nothing to actually back up your claims.

You talk about Hawken being limited to crumbs when it could have the whole cake, yet you are actively advocating that it shares the cake with MWO.
Right now, Hawken has a different cake. Sure, it's smaller. But at least the cake isn't being shared with anyone else.

And F2P games don't need tons of players. What they do need, however, is a moderate playerbase that is stable.

We already have the beginnings of a stable playerbase, and you're saying we should toss it aside and gamble on being able to compete with a more popular, better known game that already has most of the mech-sim fan market playing it.

You are advocating for Hawken to make massive balance changes and try to appeal to a different set of players, which is what screwed over the game multiple times in the first place.

You are saying, "Hey. You know that mistake that ADH already made and put them out of business? Yeah. We should do that again."

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, 27 March 2015 - 07:17 PM.

[SmaCkexe]

Generating players isn't the issue. Remember how many thousands of players we were pulling on some of the big patches? Making it to the front page of the currently most played games on Steam?

The problem has always been keeping players.

 

100% agreed.

 

I think a better tutorial would help with that.

 

Want to generate more players?  Lets get the game back in playable shape first.   We can all bring new people back in.

[DieselCat]

There is already a game that adheres to the western view of mechs that has these features, it's called Mechwarrior Online.
 
Hawken was never intended to be like this, it was originally designed to be a mix of the western style 'mechs' (big walking tanks) and eastern 'mecha' (fast moving armour suits).
 
I don't want to see modular damage in Hawken.  If I wanted to have it, I'd be playing MWO.
 

Many of the changes ADH/MTR made were, supposedly, based on player feedback.  Many speculate that if this is true, that they were listening to the wrong group.

 

One of the major things that drove away a lot of players were the sweeping changes that were made to the game, such as the ascension patch and it's introduction of the so-called tuning tree.  Many others left after those were removed.

 

So really, it goes both ways.  Right now, I have to agree that adding major changes like your suggestion would be a bad thing to do.  Besides, from what has been said, Reloaded is concentrating on getting their heads wrapped around the current code base.  Once they have it down, then we can, hopefully, start seeing fixes for the current bugs and glitches, then content and perhaps other changes.

 

(EDIT: Minor typos)

 

 

This ^^^

 

And as for myself, I continue to be a self motivated community member and post screenshots, any new bits of info about the new devs and just talking about what has recently transpired with Hawken on my FB and Twitter accounts. As a community we should all try to do this because it's a tool that takes little effort to promote the game to people that might otherwise not know about it or have left it and don't know what is currently going on.  

 

*+

[Mergaz]

You keep making this unfounded assumption that Hawken could magically garner, and hold, attention if it became a rival to MWO.

Where is your proof that this would actually be the case? Where is the evidence that Hawken would do better sharing the same fanbase as MWO as opposed to building a solid niche fanbase of its own? You keep prophesying as if making Hawken into a sim would magically make it sucessful and able to compete with a well known preexisitng title, but there's nothing to actually back up your claims.

You talk about Hawken being limited to crumbs when it could have the whole cake, yet you are actively advocating that it shares the cake with MWO.
Right now, Hawken has a different cake. Sure, it's smaller. But at least the cake isn't being shared with anyone else.

And F2P games don't need tons of players. What they do need, however, is a moderate playerbase that is stable.

We already have the beginnings of a stable playerbase, and you're saying we should toss it aside and gamble on being able to compete with a more popular, better known game that already has most of the mech-sim fan market playing it.

You are advocating for Hawken to make massive balance changes and try to appeal to a different set of players, which is what screwed over the game multiple times in the first place.

You are saying, "Hey. You know that mistake that ADH already made and put them out of business? Yeah. We should do that again."

You just forgot to say that all the changes made by ADH were basically to simplify the game and make your less elaborate mechanical to be a simplistic ARCADE game ... Skill tree removed (simplify customization), HUD polluted with giant HP and fuel bars (simplify mech status display), reduced TTK (simplify focus fire in fighting time). All these changes had been severely criticized by the community interested in realism / immersion and still continued for misfortune of Hawken.

Since changes to simplify the game and remove immersion elements ( like looking at the displays of the panel, customization status of mech, concentrate the fire focus for several seconds against the enemy) were mistakes then the new STAFF should do just the opposite and add more mechanics developed that will make Hawken become more immersive.

Hawken clearly wanted to explore the arcade market with changes in Ascension / Steam patches and distance itself from the market interested in realism / simulation and ended with less than 500 players online while mwo has several thousands of dedicated players ... very smart decision (irony).

Edited by Mergaz, 28 March 2015 - 03:57 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

 

You just forgot to say that all the changes made by ADH were basically to simplify the game and make your less elaborate mechanical to be a simplistic ARCADE game ... Skill tree removed (simplify customization), HUD polluted with giant HP and fuel bars (simplify mech status display), reduced TTK (simplify focus fire in fighting time). All these changes had been severely criticized by the community interested in realism / immersion and still continued for misfortune of Hawken.

Since changes to simplify the game and remove immersion elements ( like looking at the displays of the panel, customization status of mech, concentrate the fire focus for several seconds against the enemy) were mistakes then the new STAFF should do just the opposite and add more mechanics developed that will make Hawken become more immersive.

Hawken clearly wanted to explore the arcade market with changes in Ascension / Steam patches and distance itself from the market interested in realism / simulation and ended with less than 500 players online while mwo has several thousands of dedicated players ... very smart decision (irony).

You're ignoring the flipside of what you mentioned, because it destroys your argument that they simple made the game similar.

Skill trees were removed, but then base stats of mechs were diversified, and much more powerful internals were added.
HUD clutter was cut down on, but more customizable HUD elements were added.
And lowering TTK doesn't making killing simpler. All it means is a different set of skills is needed. Not less skill. Besides, many more safe healing options were added to the game.

Your argument that the community interested in realism/immersion were put off by the removal of some of these elements. So what? On the opposite side of things, it can be argued that if they had continued down the other road they just would have alienated people who were interested in balanced gameplay, fluid mechanics, and valued skill rather than number cruching what the best way to min/max skill trees was.

Hell, Ascension is proof that adding more mechanics that "enhance" immersion is bad for the games health. Ascension introduced more complex skill trees. It introduced a higher effective TTK. It introduced more complex Internals. It introduced a slower game to "enhance" the bulky feel of mechs. And what happened?

It was the most reviled collection of content added to Hawken and most of the "immersive" elements had to be removed because they created so many issues. Ascension is proof that going in the direction you're suggesting is more likely to kill Hawken than it is to save it.

And your argument that it wasn't until Ascesion/Steam release that they tried to explore the arcade market? 100% complete and utter nonsense. A fabrication. A fairy tale. A lie.

Don't forget you are arguing with an Alpha player, and someone who was chosen to work with the devs. You can't BS me on this. Hawken was meant to be an arcadey arena shooter since Alpha. That's how it played, and that's how the devs said they wanted it. End of story.

Also, correlation does not equal causation. You can't just point to the removal of things you like and say, "Yep. Getting rid of those is why the game died." Especially when there was so much evidence in the form of testimony that the drasticaly and constantly changing balance was one of the major causes that led to player loss.

Once again, I'll also mention you have yet to do anything that shows Hawken, with it's negative reputation can compete with an already established franchise with a history of success.

Just saying Hawken could compete doesn't make it so. Where's your proof?

[FRX23]

- Regular updates (even minor)

- Teasing incoming content

- More achievements

- More rewards

- Clan/guild features

- Boobs, more boobs