47 replies to this topic

[HugeGuts]

I would rather have more unique weapons replace some of the current ones, and/or make more classes like the Incinerator where the Primary is multiple variations of one weapon type, i.e. the Brawler gets the Flak Cannon, T-32 Bolt, and Breacher.

 

Because as it is now, all of this weapon overlaps makes most classes and/or load outs just different flavors of a "Soldier" class. No good for a game that wants customization as a major selling point!

[DallasCreeper]

 In fact I believe giving almost any other mech the breacher would make it OP. 

Even incinerator? 

[CounterlogicMan]

Even incinerator? 

 

"almost any other mech" Incin is an exception because of its unique use of heat mechanics with the SAARE.

 

HugeGuts has a great point though. The use of AR/Vulcan/SMC on many mechs make them feel less unique. Even though the mechs play a bit differently due to speed, size, abilities, and hp. The weapons play an enormous  role in how a mech feels and how it plays. After all Hawken is a game about shooting enemy mechs. 

 

Sometimes I feel as if putting AR/SMC/Vulcan on a lot of mechs and sharing weapons on a lot of mechs was an attempt to force additional customization onto the mechs. Which then resulted in a balancing nightmare as the developers tried to make each mech unique in other ways. 

 

So how do we move forward?

The easiest strategy to execute would be to try and balance the mechs that exist while leaving them the weapos they have and create new more unique mechs that don't share any primary weapons with existing mechs. After all, most of Hawken's current mechs feel pretty balanced. Adding in additional mechs that don't share primaries with the existing roster shouldn't upset the current rosters balance much. While still adding some variety to the gameplay experience. This strategy is something that I feel Reloaded has been feeling out the community for interest, ie the survey questions asking for what direction mech ability design should go. I also feel this is something the community wants. More variety, less mechs that are just small variations on current designs.

 

A strategy that was hinted at when the devs started to introduce XT and G2 variants of weapons and mechs. An attempt to put out weapons that are essentially the same as existing weapons but are able to be balanced separately. This makes pumping out new mechs easier to do, ie G2 variants, and balancing them against current mechs easier. This falls in line with the overall design and production strategy the previous devs called kitbashing (Great article if you are interested in the design and production philosophy of Hawken). It is essentially re using pieces of other things in the game to create new things while adding a few new things to give a unique spin on that thing, frankenstein style. I am sure there are notes on this in the design document of Hawken. I am sure this strategy will continue in some form since a lot of unreleased mechs in which this design was clearly employed were mid production when the acquisition happened (G2 variants of Zerker (with AR XT and Tri Seeker), SS, Brawler, Infil, Etc). 

 

So what do you guys want, or expect, in the future in the way of mechs/weapons?

 

A slew of new mechs with unique weapon sets, or a bunch of mechs that use slight variants or XT variants of current weapons?

 

How would you feel about a weapon shuffle on some of the current mechs?

 

This question is really out there but I am interested in the responses.

 

How would you feel about every mech only having 1 primary and 1 secondary?

Example:

Brawler Flak

Scout Heat Cannon

Bruiser-Vulcan

Assault-Ar

Berzerker-SMC

Predator-Breacher

Grenadier-RevGl

Rocketeer-Seeker

Infiltrator-EOC

Sharpshooter-Slug

Reaper-Am-Sar

Tech-Redox

Vanguard- Mini flak

Incin- Papa

Raider - Reflak

G2-Raider - T-32xt

G2-Assault - VulcanXt

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 06 January 2016 - 02:37 PM.

[HugeGuts]

How would you feel about every mech only having 1 primary and 1 secondary?

 

Should be a definite consideration! Here are the benefits I see coming from that:

 

o On paper, makes balancing 2/3 easier overall due to 2 less primary weapons.

o Easier to balance weapon combinations with mech stats.

o Easier to clearly define class/battlefield roles.

o Greatly extends longevity of the cash shop due to needing a new mech for every new weapon. And Hawken does have a lot of unused assets!

 

However, should this become a thing (hopefully) I also think customization would need improvements in other areas at the same time. We need more items and internals!

 

I also think there would still be too much secondary weapon overlap.

Edited by HugeGuts, 06 January 2016 - 10:57 PM.

[JackVandal]

How would you feel about every mech only having 1 primary and 1 secondary?

 

While i feel this would make things easier development-wise, i feel it would detract from the experience in each mech, ie a heat gren vs a rev gren, or Hawkins brawler vs a flack one,

[HugeGuts]

While i feel this would make things easier development-wise, i feel it would detract from the experience in each mech, ie a heat gren vs a rev gren, or Hawkins brawler vs a flack one,

 

I agree. This is why I mentioned I still think there would be too much secondary weapon overlap. We still have, what, four TOW's, and three Grenade Launchers? And those classes are what people prefer to play the most. Not much variation! Makes game play stagnant!

 

More unique secondaries should replace some of this overlap. i.e. give Brawler that unused Shield Generator weapon. Flak + Shield Generator on the fattest and slowest mech doesn't get any more "Close-range Heavy-defense" than that!

 

And for weapons not changing, then at least adjust their stats to type-specific variations. i.e. light/medium/heavy TOW. Like with what we have in the Reaper and Sharpshooter. Same secondary weapon functions, but the stat differences completely change the class' feel and approach to combat.

[JackVandal]

I agree. This is why I mentioned I still think there would be too much secondary weapon overlap. We still have, what, four TOW's, and three Grenade Launchers? And those classes are what people prefer to play the most. Not much variation! Makes game play stagnant!

 

More unique secondaries should replace some of this overlap. i.e. give Brawler that unused Shield Generator weapon. Flak + Shield Generator on the fattest and slowest mech doesn't get any more "Close-range Heavy-defense" than that!

 

And for weapons not changing, then at least adjust their stats to type-specific variations. i.e. light/medium/heavy TOW. Like with what we have in the Reaper and Sharpshooter. Same secondary weapon functions, but the stat differences completely change the class' feel and approach to combat.

the issue with the secondary is that it drastically change how a mech is played, and that could make any new addition very hard to balance. the issue with variations with things like the tow is that in game the tow is a singular item, changing it changes all the mechs, that's why the G2 versions have the xt variants so that stats can be adjusted independently. though after a patch or two that might not be hard to change, it will seriously adjust balance in the game, and from what iv been able to gather it seems josh is looking to add new things instead of trying to majorly re balance the old,

[HugeGuts]

the issue with the secondary is that it drastically change how a mech is played, and that could make any new addition very hard to balance. the issue with variations with things like the tow is that in game the tow is a singular item, changing it changes all the mechs, that's why the G2 versions have the xt variants so that stats can be adjusted independently. though after a patch or two that might not be hard to change, it will seriously adjust balance in the game, and from what iv been able to gather it seems josh is looking to add new things instead of trying to majorly re balance the old,

 

Re-balancing old mechs after fixing the "singular item" issue is going to have to happen eventually. I'm of the belief the singular-item issue was a major behind-the-scenes driving force for changing game play so drastically in the Steam patch. As in, ADH was physically unable to balance for Hawken's current pacing, so instead of fixing the technical issue they just ripped out the slower pacing so all weapons could perform equally well on all weight classes.