47 replies to this topic

[asipo]

anyone think so? Vanguard/Brawler/Grenadier all have Point-D Vulcan as their prestige

 

im thinking of each prestige to be

Grenadier: ReFLAK-35 (so you can ricochet both primary & secondary, ReFLAK-35 can bounce at longer range when using ability)

Brawler: Assault Rifle

Vanguard: Point-D Vulcan

 

another idea as you guys keep comment, write in your idea too

Gren: EOC

Brawler: Heat cannon

Vanguard: Re-Flak

Edited by asipo, 28 December 2015 - 08:17 PM.

[MomOw]

Yes I also feels like point-D feels akward.

 

IMHO Gren should have AOE only weapons

 

 

and brawler could be fun with semi-auto weapons

 

[n3onfx]

I shudder just at the thought of facing a C class with AR, Hawkins Brawler is already scary enough.

[Meraple]

Grenadier: ReFLAK-35 (so you can ricochet both primary & secondary, ReFLAK-35 can bounce at longer range when using ability)

Reflak's bouncing and long-range capabilities are inferor to the Rev-GL's by quite alot.

 

Brawler: Assault Rifle

It already has the Hawkins; this'd be quite redundant.

 

Vanguard: Point-D Vulcan

Mini-FLAK's generally better than Vulcan on the Vanguard; why leave it on there and remove it from the others?

Edited by (KDR) Meraple, 28 December 2015 - 03:26 PM.

[nepacaka]

Gren with Vulcan - imba
Vanguard with Vulcan - speedy C
Brawler with Vulcan - useless, cuz we have imba-gren :D

also, if devs added some C-class mech in future (obviously, without vulcan), than vulcan no longer seem something ordinary.

actually, i don't see nothing bad in this.
all 3 mechs have a different playstyle.
like i say before...gren imba ;D
Gren is slow, but not the same with brawler. Brawler even slower, and have a turret-mode, Grenadier not. different secondaries (TOW and GL)
Vanguard is obviously different, he is faster, can be a flying C with vulcan. Also has a turret like Brawler, but moving so fast, more like attack unit, instead defensive Brawler.

But i feel free swap vulcan with alternative shotgun on Brawler. Like Reflak.
Brawler with reflak have more sense than grenadier, imo. well, you know, because... shotguns! :3
 

[nepacaka]

I shudder just at the thought of facing a C class with AR, Hawkins Brawler is already scary enough.

not long time ago i have a bug with my primary, and i have a AR-Vanguard. It will be a quite good combination in general. A little boring, but not bad.

[asipo]

Reflak's bouncing and long-range capabilities are inferor to the Rev-GL's by quite alot.

 

It already has the Hawkins; this'd be quite redundant.

 

Mini-FLAK's generally better than Vulcan on the Vanguard; why leave it on there?

reflak so gren can hit scan

but you got the point on brawler and vanguard thou 

[nepacaka]

reflak so gren can hit scan

 

but, but! it is already have a hitscan vulcan... :D

[eth0]

Reflak's bouncing and long-range capabilities are inferor to the Rev-GL's by quite alot.

 

It already has the Hawkins; this'd be quite redundant.

 

Reflak sounds really nice on Gren to me. Obviously reflak is inferior to the range of rev-gl, but it's not replacing rev-gl.

Gren prestige is an up close (only?) sustain weapon. Rev-gl covers the fun and the grenades, heat cannon has charging and better burst but no bounce. Both of these can cover a lot of range in the right hands, but vulcan (or reflak) give the gren an option for sustain without mastering the subtleties of rev-gl and heat.

 

I probably wouldn't even make fun of reflak grens because it makes me want to learn how to ricochet effectively. Vulcan grens make me want to vomit effectively.

 

I feel the same about the AR on Brawler. Choosing it over the Hawkins seems to have very little benefit.

Edited by eth0, 28 December 2015 - 04:58 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

EOC on Gren. Clearly. What's wrong with you people? Good lord the burst damage on it with its ability popped. Makes me all tingly down there.

 

Vanguard may work well with breacher. Too many sustained weapons on that thing, and the breacher needs a second home. Add that to the Vanguard's general versatility, and I think that would be something quite nice.

 

Brawler? I hate to say it, but the heat cannon might be the best choice. Needs some explosives and is already capable of a bursty playstyle. It may suffer on the DPS front, but I feel it's an appropriate niche.

 

I actually have a problem with heat cannon on gren, really. My style using heat on infil requires high mobility, and it doesn't transfer to the grenadier. It's also seldom used on gren. Perhaps vulcan should stay on gren, but I don't like it very much. Cheesy. Bland. Like brie. I'd love to try the Gren with the redox. Familiar arcing shots, a debuff, and combine it with the ability and I think it has some real potential.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 28 December 2015 - 06:39 PM.

[crockrocket]

EOC on Gren. Clearly. What's wrong with you people? Good lord the burst damage on it with its ability popped. Makes me all tingly down there.

 

Vanguard may work well with breacher. Too many sustained weapons on that thing, and the breacher needs a second home. Add that to the Vanguard's general versatility, and I think that would be something quite nice.

 

Brawler? I hate to say it, but the heat cannon might be the best choice. Needs some explosives and is already capable of a bursty playstyle. It may suffer on the DPS front, but I feel it's an appropriate niche.

 

I actually have a problem with heat cannon on gren, really. My style using heat on infil requires high mobility, and it doesn't transfer to the grenadier. It's also seldom used on gren. Perhaps vulcan should stay on gren, but I don't like it very much. Cheesy. Bland. Like brie. I'd love to try the Gren with the redox. Familiar arcing shots, a debuff, and combine it with the ability and I think it has some real potential.

 

Since apparently I didn't phrase it in a g-rated enough manner before, I like all of those ideas, particularly heat brawler. Something something insert Krieger gif here

[asipo]

EOC on Gren. Clearly. What's wrong with you people? Good lord the burst damage on it with its ability popped. Makes me all tingly down there.

 

Vanguard may work well with breacher. Too many sustained weapons on that thing, and the breacher needs a second home. Add that to the Vanguard's general versatility, and I think that would be something quite nice.

 

Brawler? I hate to say it, but the heat cannon might be the best choice. Needs some explosives and is already capable of a bursty playstyle. It may suffer on the DPS front, but I feel it's an appropriate niche.

 

I actually have a problem with heat cannon on gren, really. My style using heat on infil requires high mobility, and it doesn't transfer to the grenadier. It's also seldom used on gren. Perhaps vulcan should stay on gren, but I don't like it very much. Cheesy. Bland. Like brie. I'd love to try the Gren with the redox. Familiar arcing shots, a debuff, and combine it with the ability and I think it has some real potential.

EOC gren, Brawler with heat cannon not a bad idea

 

Im more on C-Class so im quite comfy in heat cannon gren

As you said, you cant be too aggresive with heat cannon gren compare with infil

Emm.. I play it at longer range more like pred breacher*

 

*im not so pro, so anyone who know better feel free to comment

[jjm1]

why not have more than three options per mech.

 

I'd like to have EOC on Gren. But I like hosing off space bar jokeys with the Vulcan now and again.

[ticklemyiguana]

Since apparently I didn't phrase it in a g-rated enough manner before, I like all of those ideas, particularly heat brawler. Something something insert Krieger gif here

did your post actually get flagged and removed? My notifications indicate so. I'm very curious as to what you said that got taken down so fast.

[MomOw]

IMHO a reflak gren would outshine the miniflak vanguard so I'm not a great fan of this idea.

I also do agree that vulcan on vanguard is not that much a good option.

[asipo]

why not have more than three options per mech.

 

I'd like to have EOC on Gren. But I like hosing off space bar jokeys with the Vulcan now and again.

1 mech 1 weapon

eg: must buy 3 assult just to get assult-mg, assult-ar & assult-vulcan

 

$$ for the dev

[nepacaka]

I more feel that vulcan ugly weapon in general. I think it should be like support sustain. Have a cheap damage, high firerate, and generate less heat. I don't like current conception where Vulcan have very high dps. At least, it should overheat faster, like and all sustain weapons in game.

Also, Vulcan on brawler sometimes have a sense. I use it extremely rare, but sometimes it happens. But most of time brawler use flak or SA.
Grens most of time play with Vulcan now. Cuz imba. it is more easy than Rev-GL. And obviously, much more easy than heat-gren (cuz average players can't do nothing with heat on slow gren)
So, changing vulcan can motivate ppl use other weapons on gren.
Vanguard also not very often use vulcan, most of time he have SMG or mFlak. Vulcan looks like mFlak alternative. It is not bad, also, "close-combat only" it is vanguard feature.

Also, vulcan on gren is a universal weapon (rev and heat - not), his other weapons have a insane problems with air targets, this is why most of ppl play with vulcan.

If you swap Vulcan on mFlak, most of players start play with mFlak, cuz good dps, and hitscan. No problem with flyers.
If you swap Vulcan on EOC, nobody want play on gren in general. Only people who play with rev before. Just because EOC and Heat is a cheap-dps, and hard to use weapons. Any reason to use this fuzzy bunny on gren? It can be a little better than eoc-rockee, but it is still ugly balanced with slow c-class speed.
Also, if you swap it with EOC. Greanadier start look like better version of rocketeer with ability. 2 the same weapons. Any sense to use eoc-rockee? If we have eoc-gren with ability?

[MomOw]

I can't remember if I already glitched a Re-D0X gren, but I would really give it a try.

Do you know how the gren ability goes with EOC mines ?

 

I also would love to try an AM-SAR brawler, a reflak brawler and a breacher vanguard.

[DeeRax]

Brawler should keep Vulcan. Vulcan is brawly.

 

Vanguard could maybe use something else. Breacher or Assault Rifle sounds fun (AR vanguard would prolly be my new main if it happened).

 

Gren definitely needs something else (fatzerker needs to GTFO), but it's hard to put my finger on what...

As already mentioned, re-flak gren might make miniflak van somewhat redundant, and eoc gren would make rocketeer even more hopelessly redundant than it already is. Though maybe just give gren EOC (Cos BOOM! No, seriously, was this some sort of forgotten oversight?), since rocketeer needs a complete overhaul anyways. And eoc rocketeer is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked.

But yeah... Less ubiquitous vulcan is a better vulcan. It should be a powerful niche weapon, instead of on everything.

(Oh, and buff G2Assault )

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 29 December 2015 - 06:03 AM.

[Shoutaxeror]

 

Vanguard could maybe use something else. Breacher or Assault Rifle sounds fun (AR vanguard would prolly be my new main if it happened).

 

- I had a breacher Vanguard once, it was fuzzy bunnyng strong. Agreed on neon's thoughts, fuzzy bunny AR in C class. Vanguard already has SMC that makes it very versatile. A shotgun in vanguard would be nice. Why not T 32? It would make a nice combo with grenades and add a burst option to Vanguard. And that's close range.

 

- About Brawler : Vulcan is not best option but I think it's fine. Better work on its ability (rework or slight buff)

 

- Grenadier : Vulcan is out of place in this mech, a lot of people agree on this. Not sure the actual reflak would be a good idea : Ricochets aspect of the weapon wouldnt be used just like with raider, and that would increase its effective range towards vulcan.

I'm not fond of EOC, as it feels redundant with Infil (we already have heat canon).

So, what about a reflak XT ? With maybe more ricochets, and less rate of fire.

Edited by (KDR) Shoutaxeror, 29 December 2015 - 08:21 AM.

[crockrocket]

did your post actually get flagged and removed? My notifications indicate so. I'm very curious as to what you said that got taken down so fast.

I'm assuming it was because I included that gif of Krieger.

Basically I compared my interest in heat brawler to the excitement of a certain anatomical feature.

[ticklemyiguana]

I'm assuming it was because I included that gif of Krieger.

Basically I compared my interest in heat brawler to the excitement of a certain anatomical feature.

Here. Have an extra like. On me.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 29 December 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[CounterlogicMan]

Leave EOC Rocketeer alone!!! 

 

 

She just needs a buff. Seriously....buff it already. Just DO IT!

 

I kind of like the idea of the Brawler having heat cannon....buuuuttttt that would mean there being 3 heat cannon C classes. Though ....moving away from every mech having high dps hitscan weapons (specifically ar smc vulcan) would be nice....so wishy washy on that one.

 

Vanguard having breacher would steal the thunder of the predator. I think vanguard is fine having vulcan. We should really avoid giving more mechs AR, SMC, or Vulcan if we can....Hitscan automatic weapons are so uninteresting in a game that has such gems as the heat cannon, EOC, REV-GL, etc.

 

Vulcan gren....so many people use this thing because it is basically just a fat zerker. I honestly think it should just get a different more entertaining ability. Rather than a boring uninteresting 10% damage boost and boost to splash radius. But if the option were to change the weapon and not the ability. I would say give it the RPR or EOC. Both keep with the suppression theme. 

 

Also, those saying vulcan gren is op. You just need to practice more with Rev-GL. THen you will see the TRUE POWER of the grenadier. :) 

 

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 29 December 2015 - 10:36 AM.

[crockrocket]

You know, I originally thought that the Gren's ability only affected explosives (Rev-GL, GL, Heat, Dets, and HE Charge). This might not be a bad idea for a Gren nerf as it would only affect Vulgren.

Edited by (TDM)crockrocket, 29 December 2015 - 10:43 AM.

[ticklemyiguana]

 

1. I kind of like the idea of the Brawler having heat cannon....buuuuttttt that would mean there being 3 heat cannon C classes.

 

2. Vanguard having breacher would steal the thunder of the predator. I think vanguard is fine having vulcan. We should really avoid giving more mechs AR, SMC, or Vulcan if we can....Hitscan automatic weapons are so uninteresting in a game that has such gems as the heat cannon, EOC, REV-GL, etc.

 

3. Vulcan gren....so many people use this thing because it is basically just a fat zerker. I honestly think it should just get a different more entertaining ability. Rather than a boring uninteresting 10% damage boost and boost to splash radius. But if the option were to change the weapon and not the ability. I would say give it the RPR or EOC. Both keep with the suppression theme. 

 

 

1. Eh. But it's a trade off between that or three vulcans. And I think we all agree the vulcan is pretty boring. Also I would suggest finding a better weapon that heat cannon for gren. If Gren went the EOC route instead of vulcan, it should change heat anyway just because of the similarities to infil, and also heat is justifiably underutilized in game.

 

2. You shut your mouth! I don't think that with all the other things that make the predator unique, introducing the breacher to the Vanguard would hurt it at all - actually maybe even help it, in that newer plays might have at least some experience with a piece of the predator.

 

3. Any comment on the idea of putting the Redox on the Gren instead of vulcan, while putting EOC on it instead of Heat?

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 29 December 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[DeeRax]

1. Eh. But it's a trade off between that or three vulcans. And I think we all agree the vulcan is pretty boring. Also I would suggest finding a better weapon that heat cannon for gren. If Gren went the EOC route instead of vulcan, it should change heat anyway just because of the similarities to infil, and also heat is justifiably underutilized in game.

 

2. You shut your mouth! I don't think that with all the other things that make the predator unique, introducing the breacher to the Vanguard would hurt it at all - actually maybe even help it, in that newer plays might have at least some experience with a piece of the predator.

 

3. Any comment on the idea of putting the Redox on the Gren instead of vulcan, while putting EOC on it instead of Heat?

I like the idea of EOC Gren. But I like my hot, hot heat Gren, too, tho. So I wouldn't want to get rid of HC on Gren. I'm not particularly awesome with it or anything, and I know Rev-GL is mostly better, but HC Gren is still fun. And I feel it plays differently enough from HC Infil that the weapon overlap there isn't a big deal, being a c-class and having a completely different ability. HC with artillery shots is super 'splodey fun. ....'Sides, if you gave Brawler HC instead, wouldn't that make Brawler even more similar to Scout? Would that be a problem by this logic?

That said, if Rocketeer gets re-vamped, and dumbfire is somehow made viable, I could see Heat Rocketeer being totally fun, and then would have less reservations about getting rid of it on Grenadier.

I have literally never played Tech yet (I think I test drove it once, actually, maybe, IDK), I can't really comment on giving Redox to Gren. But I'm an open to it, it seems unique and possibly fitting.

I maintain my opinion that of the three, Brawler should be the one to actually keep the Vulcan. It just makes sense that it would have it as an option.
 

Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 29 December 2015 - 11:13 AM.

[CounterlogicMan]

SNIPE

 

All said and done, I would definitely prefer three mechs have heat cannon over three mechs having vulcan.

 

I think heat on gren is an interesting combo. Plus EOC grenade launcher is a fun combo. Berzerker is smc vulcan ar and assault is smc vulcan ar. Why can't infil and gren be similar? Gren does have the Rev-GL to keep it unique. Similar to what deerax said, infil and gren still play pretty differently.

 

There is a lot that is unique about the pred and I think it should stay that way. :) Also breacher vanguard may be a bit OP.

 

I am sure you are familiar with the combo you can pull off with the breacher. Were you fire a fully charged shot then are able to follow up very quickly with the shotgun shot. Pair that with the grenade.

 

100 125

144

125

 

This is 494 damage in about 2.5s. On a relatively fast mech with 685 hp. Pretty freaking powerful compared to everything else.

Vanguard is already a really powerful mech. It really doesn't need any help. 

 

I think the redox should stay a support mech weapon. I don't think it fits the theme of the grenadier very well. I really want a support C class that has a redox. But grenadier is not that mech. As I said before I think grenadier should keep the heat cannon. While replacing the vulcan with a more interesting weapon like the EOC, or even possibly the RPR. Which is still a hitscan auto weapon but it is much more interesting than the vulcan in my opinion. While still keeping a suppression feel to the grenadier.

 

 

I just had a crazy idea....Take the EOC off the Rocketeer put it on the grenadier...Take the Vulcan off the Grenadier and put it on the rocketeer. Here is the kicker....Take SMC off bruiser and put EOC on it. No...too crazy...or is it?

 

 

EOC

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 29 December 2015 - 11:33 AM.

[ticklemyiguana]

What's the fourth damage number for? Second grenade? I mean, on the pred the stats are pretty similar if we're just talking about amount of time.

[CounterlogicMan]

Pred is this in 2.5s:

 

100 65 alpha

144 65

65

 

439 in 2.5s

 

If you give it a little more time it does more. But so would the vanguard with breacher.

 

Pred in 3.5s

100 65 alpha

144 65

65

144 65

 

648

 

Vanguard with breacher in 3.5s

100 125 alpha

144

125

144

 

638

 

For reference Vanguard with vulcan in 3.5s

 

Vulcan fires 8.33 shots a second at 14.52 dmg per shot. Well just say it fires 25 times in 3.5s for a total of 363 dmg.

 

two grenades are fired in 3.5s including the opening shot.

 

totaling 613 in 3.5s

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 29 December 2015 - 11:55 AM.

[ticklemyiguana]

Yeah, no. I just personally don't like Heat Gren. Redox is a stretch, but I'd definitely like to try it.

 

 

Pred is this in 2.5s:

 

100 65

144

65

 

374 in 2.5s

 

If you give it a little more time it does more. But so would the vanguard with breacher.

 

Pred in 3.5s

100 65

144

65

144

65

 

583

 

Vanguard with breacher in 3.5s

100 125

144

125

144

 

638

But those are wrong. Whereas the grenade launcher fires twice in 2.5 seconds, the EOC pred fires three times, which would bump up the 2.5s value to 439 - within the same range as the vanguard. Once the fight continues, the DPS on the GL is actually lower than the EOC Pred.

 

The predator outputs more damage with the breacher than is possible on the vanguard. You're just forgetting the timing. I'm actually a little confused by your numbers. Some labelling would help, and showing when exactly the weapon is being fired.

 

At the end of the day though, it's not disputed that the EOC pred can output more DPS than the grenade launcher, and all in all, the idea that the vanguard would be OP on account of damage seems to fall short there.

 

Dammit, counter. You liked the post as a large edit countering your post was posted. Now it's just awkward.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 29 December 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[CounterlogicMan]

Yeah, no. I just personally don't like Heat Gren. Redox is a stretch, but I'd definitely like to try it.

 

 

But those are wrong. Whereas the grenade launcher fires twice in 2.5 seconds, the EOC pred fires three times, which would bump up the 2.5s value to 439 - within the same range as the vanguard. Once the fight continues, the DPS on the GL is actually lower than the EOC Pred.

 

The predator outputs more damage with the breacher than is possible on the vanguard. You're just forgetting the timing. I'm actually a little confused by your numbers. Some labelling would help, and showing when exactly the weapon is being fired.

 

At the end of the day though, it's not disputed that the EOC pred can output more DPS than the grenade launcher, and all in all, the idea that the vanguard would be OP on account of damage seems to fall short there.

 

Good catch on that you are right it does fire 3 times in 2.5s. Updated the numbers to reflect this. I think it does hold up. You are still giving the vanguard a damage boost over vulcan vanguard. Which still does a huge amount of damage. I should have added the reference to vulcan vanguard for clarity of what I was trying to convey. That is my fault. 

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 29 December 2015 - 11:56 AM.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

I got EOC brawler as a weapon glitch once, and if EOC grenadier could be anywhere as near as fun as that, sign me up.

Edited by Rainbow Sheep, 29 December 2015 - 12:04 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

Good catch on that you are right it does fire 3 times in 2.5s. Updated the numbers to reflect this. I think it does hold up. You are still giving the vanguard a damage boost over vulcan vanguard. Which still does a huge amount of damage. I should have added the reference to vulcan vanguard for clarity of what I was trying to convey. That is my fault.

Sorry, Counter, I'm still confused. Versus the vulcan, the breacher has only slightly more than half the DPS. Where's the damage boost coming from? I appreciate you laying stuff out above, but I'm really just turning to the stats to get the raw DPS and damage values.

 

https://docs.google....t#gid=416460446

[asipo]

Sorry, Counter, I'm still confused. Versus the vulcan, the breacher has only slightly more than half the DPS. Where's the damage boost coming from? I appreciate you laying stuff out above, but I'm really just turning to the stats to get the raw DPS and damage values.

 

https://docs.google....t#gid=416460446

i think breacher vanguard is OP

i can already feel how strong breacher is when using pred even my mines did not hit/did not launch any mines at all

[Luaq]

I actually like my Vulcan Grenadier.

Don't care about the vanguard...useless ability

and Brawler shouldn't have the vulcan indeed. A weapon specific to this mech only could be nice.
I do like the "Sniper" approach of hawkins brawler vs Shotgun reFLAC Brawler. I'd see either the SMG or Assaulf Riffle instead of Vulcan


...



Edit: We need more guns though... such as a Railgun:

Spoiler

The Rail gun on the brawler turret mode would be lethal... and feel like this:





Okay I kid.




But I do want a railgun with major cooldown � la sharpshooter... twice damage but twice cooldown :P
Bettter take that shot!

Edited by Luaq, 30 December 2015 - 12:45 AM.

[MomOw]

 

I think the redox should stay a support mech weapon. I don't think it fits the theme of the grenadier very well. I really want a support C class that has a redox. But grenadier is not that mech. 

 

 I already had a re-D0X incinerator, but it didn't go well with the specific heat mechanic. I would really give a try to the re-D0X gren. As soon as I can I may try to glitch that. I wanna try the maxed grenades with both the gren ability and re-D0X debuff.

 

About rocketeer IMHO the first thing to do is to buff the hellfire dumbfire mode, then we could look at primary weapon loadout, but any longrange hitscan would be welcomed.

 

@Luaq : IIRC Sabot and/or slug are already railguns

 

BTW I think that having a C-class (incin') equipped solely with minigun lead the point-D vulcan to some sort of redundancy.

 

the stuff that I would try/glitch :

EOC brawler, breacher vanguard, red0x gren, RPR rocketeer

[CounterlogicMan]

The point I was trying to make Tickle is that the Vanguard is already very powerful. Giving it the breacher would make it thoroughly OP. In fact I believe giving almost any other mech the breacher would make it OP. It is pretty well tailored to the stats of the predator. 

 

 

I still have flashbacks to when Cluster got a breacher berzerker....*shudders*

Edited by CounterlogicMan, 01 January 2016 - 11:13 AM.

[Silverfire]

I think I'd have children with an EOC Grenadier.  Sounds like fuzzy bunny fun.

[ticklemyiguana]

The point I was trying to make Tickle is that the Vanguard is already very powerful. Giving it the breacher would make it thoroughly OP. In fact I believe giving almost any other mech the breacher would make it OP. It is pretty well tailored to the stats of the predator. 

 

 

I still have flashbacks to when Cluster got a breacher berzerker....*shudders*

I refuse to believe it until it is in my hands and too late to turn back forever.

[asipo]

The point I was trying to make Tickle is that the Vanguard is already very powerful. Giving it the breacher would make it thoroughly OP. In fact I believe giving almost any other mech the breacher would make it OP. It is pretty well tailored to the stats of the predator. 

 

 

I still have flashbacks to when Cluster got a breacher berzerker....*shudders*

agree with you, but breacher can put into techies thou