19 replies to this topic

[Hellstorm79]

Hello,

I searched online and these forums but came up empty. There a coupe of Wiki's out there that are fairly helpful for very beginning info but this is no where near enough. Where is the actual information on game mechanics? How damage is calculated? Is all damage treated the same? (IE does a rocket go through a shiled more or same? Is there  a difference?)

Personally I can't see playing this game for very long if I'm not allowed to get a deeper understanding for how it works.

Am I just blind or is this info just not been made available?

[ReEvolve]

How damage is calculated?

Every weapon has a damage stat. For example: the Assault Rifle deals 19.8 armor damage per shot. Here's some more info: https://docs.google....t#gid=416460446

Is all damage treated the same?

Yes, there's no "special kind of damage".

[Hellstorm79]

Did you make that? Damn man that's dedication. Nj. But where is the Dev's contribution? So when I drop a grenade, and there are two enemy mechs in radius, does one Mech closest take more damage? Or is distributed equally between all in range? Normally for a game like this there is a full blown wiki with very detailed information on how ALL the mechanics work. Why isnt there here?

[ReEvolve]

Did you make that? Damn man that's dedication. Nj.

Nope, that was shosca.

So when I drop a grenade, and there are two enemy mechs in radius, does one Mech closest take more damage? Or is distributed equally between all in range?

All mechs in the grenade's radius take damage depending on how close they are to the grenade.

Normally for a game like this there is a full blown wiki with very detailed information on how ALL the mechanics work. Why isnt there here?

The official game guides are outdated since February 2014 because the former devs prioritized other stuff (bug fixes etc) over updating and extending the information on the website.

[Hellstorm79]

And again, take the Heat Charge. It says it transfers "a moderate amount of heat to nearby mechs". That's one of the worst descriptions I've seen for an item in a competitive game in a really long time. It tells me NOTHING that I need to know as a competitive player. 1. What EXACTLY is "moderate heat" I want a number or transfer per second. How is it transferred? Does it transfer the same amount out no matter what? If there are two mechs in range (Which is EXACTLY WHAT by the way?, "nearby" is just ridiculous to have even put in there) Does it transfer a certain amount per enemy mech? Does it transfer it all to one even if two are in range? The fact that this isn't anywhere I can find is giving me more and more of an idea as to why so many players abandoned this game

[Hellstorm79]

Hey, I appreciate your responses really. But where is the Dev confirmation? I mean I want to hear it from the horses mouth so speak. And thats usually how its done. The "game guides" if you are referring to the ones on the Hawken site iteself are joke. Again, very basic and extremely vague  info.

[Hellstorm79]

DOTA posts a changelog every week with EXACTLY how calculatons were altered and EXACTLY what math was changed overall. Where is that here? And I mean that in a general way. Not like where actually is it on the site.

Edited by Hellstorm79, 28 March 2015 - 11:33 AM.

[shosca]

Did you make that? Damn man that's dedication. Nj. But where is the Dev's contribution? So when I drop a grenade, and there are two enemy mechs in radius, does one Mech closest take more damage? Or is distributed equally between all in range? Normally for a game like this there is a full blown wiki with very detailed information on how ALL the mechanics work. Why isnt there here?

 

Check out the min/max damages and ranges

[shosca]

DOTA posts a changelog every week with EXACTLY how calculatons were altered and EXACTLY what math was changed overall. Where is that here? And I mean that in a general way. Not like where actually is it on the site.

 

I created the sheet when the steam patch was happening. The sheet data originated with the stat information posted by Vana, and he himself filled out most of the stats in there, then I kept it up to date with change logs and in game measurements. The pre-steam data came from Ashfire908's spreadsheet.

Edited by shosca, 28 March 2015 - 11:45 AM.

[DisorderlyMechanic]

Your expecting a lot from hawken but releasing actual calculations isn't considered the norm in game design or software development so you ca't be mad if it's not there, but if you really want to know all of the information is in the states of each mech (like Revolve said) and for any information you don't know you'll have to document yourself by using certain mechs and writing down the information. In most cases the hawkens calculations aren't changed often like in dota but you might be able to find them in the change logs for hawken. 

[ReEvolve]

The fact that this isn't anywhere I can find is giving me more and more of an idea as to why so many players abandoned this game

 
I can understand that feeling. Sounds like a good addition to my Suggestions to improve the first time experience of new players thread. Gonna add that later.
 

Hey, I appreciate your responses really. But where is the Dev confirmation? I mean I want to hear it from the horses mouth so speak. And thats usually how its done. The "game guides" if you are referring to the ones on the Hawken site iteself are joke. Again, very basic and extremely vague  info.

 
Welp, the new dev team is pretty small so I doubt that you get any confirmation right away in this thread. Yeah, I was talking about the game guides. As I already mentioned: yes, unfortunately they are outdated and lack information.
 

DOTA posts a changelog every week with EXACTLY how calculatons were altered and EXACTLY what math was changed overall. Where is that here? And I mean that in a general way. Not like where actually is it on the site.

In the past (on the former forums) the former devs did post some information when stats were altered via patches. The last game update was in May/June. The new devs didn't alter any stats yet.

[spo0n]

DOTA didn't almost get shot down forever two months ago.  DOTA also has lots of money in esports, where little changes could be seen as unfair if they were not announced.

 

To answer your question about shields: damage/bullets should not go through them (except the breacher), but eoc mines detonation does go through the shield.  It is a bug I believe.  Emps, however, detonate on contact with the shield and go "through" it.  Really just kills the shield and then the emp continues to you.

 

Heat charge is a little harder to explain.  There is this big red field that comes up when you drop one, that is the area it affects.  All in range axes get heat added to their bar, not exactly sure how fast or if it feathers.

 

Game guide also has not been updated in a while and was never very accurate.

 

 

Finally, you aren't going to get dev confirmation.  The knowledge of this game is in the players.  Get onto ts and talk to someone, or ask someone on the forum to help you out ingame and arrange a time/date.  Question can be answered, worst case is experimentation.  The original devs didn't ever keep track of things well and it was hard to calculate damages even for them.  Then they ran out of time and money.

[Hellstorm79]

Shosca,

Thank you for explaining.

 

Disorderly,

 

"isn't considered the norm in game design or software development so you ca't be mad if it's not there"

 

That's actually not true for any highly competitive game. But TRULY competitive games like DOTA and LOL are rare. I guess the difference is there's no 5 million dollar prize Hawken tournament a year. Wait, that's not even true. Robocraft is a free to play by I think 3 guys or 13 guys. Anyway COMPLETE game mechanics published and readily accessible. This is the FIRST game I have seen that had nothing published.

 

 

 

For example, the game guide doesn't even have a section for internals. When the game says "Run Speed" I assume it means without boosting. But I don't want to have to assume.

 

If the company wants this game to get big then it is going to HAVE to appeal to the MOBA community. Unless they get the advanced game mechanics published along with a tiering system (which honestly as of now this game doesn't have enough players to support that) it's going to continue to languish and then fail.

 

I do really appreciate the responses though.

[Hellstorm79]

Spoon,

Sorry but that's just not going to happen. By dev confirmation I just mean the company publicly publishing the Mechanics themselves and keeping them updated. Not responding to my thread here.

 

2. Critical thinking 101. Never trust a secondary source unless you have no other choice. We have another choice.

[Elite_is_salty]

Chill bruh

[Hellstorm79]

Honestly man I am scratching my head. Wth are you talking about? This is chill.

[HubbaBubba9849]

I've found Hawken is based more around "feel" than just stats. You just have to play until you find the weapons and tactics that feel right for you.

[bacon_avenger]

Sorry but that's just not going to happen. By dev confirmation I just mean the company publicly publishing the Mechanics themselves and keeping them updated. Not responding to my thread here.

2. Critical thinking 101. Never trust a secondary source unless you have no other choice. We have another choice.

OK, quick history lesson.
 
Hawken was originally being developed by Adhesive Games (ADH) with it's publisher of Meteor Entertainment (MTR) with the first alpha run being in 2012.  Ever since then, the community (AKA us/we) asked for the numbers behind the weapons and such more than a few times, but ADH/MTR claimed they wanted us to focus and report back on how things 'felt' over getting obsessed with numbers.  That spreadsheet was borne of the work from many dedicated players testing and retesting in matches (often just talking over mumble/teamspeak and shooting at each other)
 
Toward the end of 2014, some of the ADH devs started relenting and giving out some, but not all, of the numbers.
 
Then, The Great Silence ™ came upon us, and the devs stopped talking.
 
This is how things were for some time, and all we could do was keep playing, organize community events, and so on, hoping for some official word as to what was going on, noticing that when something major broke, it was fixed, but never receiving word about who was doing it.
 
Then a few weeks ago (seriously!), Cptn Josh from Reloaded Games announced that they had bought Hawken and were going to restart dev work.

(In case someone reads this at a much later date, I'm writing this on March 3rd, 2015)
 
This is why there isn't much info out there right now, it was never really given to us.  Give it some time, the new devs are working on getting things stable and wrapping their heads around the code that was left behind.
 

Edited by bacon_avenger, 28 March 2015 - 06:35 PM.

[spo0n]

HAWKEN IS AN ARENA SHOOTER NOT A MOBA.

[Hellstorm79]

Bacon,

Thanks very much for the insight it is appreciated. As is the labor of love this worksheet must have been . Kudos to everyone that worked on it seriously. Coming from games like DOTA and LOL its a totally different environment/relationship with the game co.