111 replies to this topic

[StubbornPuppet]

Are you pondering what I'm pondering?

 

 

I think so Brain, but I'm afraid that correct answer to "Is HAWKEN no longer fun?" is a trick one like "Yes, we have no bananas."

 

POIT!

[DallasCreeper]

Are you pondering what I'm pondering?

 

 

I think so Brain, but I'm afraid that correct answer to "Is HAWKEN no longer fun?" is a trick one like "Yes, we have no bananas."

 

POIT!

inb4 Banana mech.

[coldform]

Huh, it's almost like dm skill carries over to other game modes.

That's because it's exactly like that.

[Silverfire]

That's because it's exactly like that.

 

[coldform]

When pubbing, every game mode boils down to rule #1: DO DAMAGE.

To think that you can win a match without doing the most damage is just delusional.

Y'know, trentik has 2 practices a week where we reinforce raw dm skills...

[lo_spaghetto]

 
I am. If only people listened to me

 

The actual title "Hawken" is in this font, but the menus are in Agency FB Bold Monda. Pilot names are in something that I thought was Agency but on closer inspection the letters are longer than regular Agency FB. It is probably just Agency FB Bold.

 

It's called kremlin.

http://www.dafont.com/kremlin.font

ayyy thanks bb

[lo_spaghetto]

When pubbing, every game mode boils down to rule #1: DO DAMAGE.

To think that you can win a match without doing the most damage is just delusional.

Y'know, trentik has 2 practices a week where we reinforce raw dm skills...

when dis??

[DallasCreeper]

when dis??

Tuesday and Thursday @ 9 est.

[ATX22]

There is a difference between leaving a match, and discontinuing play all together. I made that distinction in my post.

 

I mentioned nothing of Reloaded in my post, so I have no idea why you mentioned them at all in your response.

 

Your personal bias has been noted.

 

You shouldn't have to mention Reloaded, they own the game, they control the game, and are the only people who can fix said game.  It'd be asinine to not bring them up when it comes to fixing their game (servers) since all you or I can do (or any other gamer for that matter) is make due with an unpopular, incomplete, flawed and gimped game.

 

If Reloaded isn't following through with promises to make this game better/fix things, simply putting up with their crap isn't going to MOTIVATE them to actually get around to fixing this game.  It's as bad as going on an advertising campaign for this game while it's in this state to run off even more prospective customers than Hawken does all on it's own.  So if the servers performance is BAD, it's not necessarily a good thing to keep playing on bad servers as Reloaded might get the idea that it's a non-issue.

 

I mention people leaving the game altogether because, yeah, that happens too because the servers for many are crap.  Just expanding on what you posted a bit.

 

Why is my "personal bias" an issue?  I'm giving my opinion here after all, I thought personal bias would be implied any time opinion enters the discussion.  I'm biased against poorly built server infrastructure and propping up poor business practices of developers/companies, that a problem?

Edited by ATX22, 24 August 2016 - 10:38 PM.

[Flifang]

You shouldn't have to mention Reloaded, they own the game, they control the game, and are the only people who can fix said game.  It'd be asinine to not bring them up when it comes to fixing their game (servers) since all you or I can do (or any other gamer for that matter) is make due with an unpopular, incomplete, flawed and gimped game.

 

If Reloaded isn't following through with promises to make this game better/fix things, simply putting up with their crap isn't going to MOTIVATE them to actually get around to fixing this game.  It's as bad as going on an advertising campaign for this game while it's in this state to run off even more prospective customers than Hawken does all on it's own.  So if the servers performance is BAD, it's not necessarily a good thing to keep playing on bad servers as Reloaded might get the idea that it's a non-issue.

 

I mention people leaving the game altogether because, yeah, that happens too because the servers for many are crap.  Just expanding on what you posted a bit.

 

Why is my "personal bias" an issue?  I'm giving my opinion here after all, I thought personal bias would be implied any time opinion enters the discussion.  I'm biased against poorly built server infrastructure and propping up poor business practices of developers/companies, that a problem?

Alright. First of all, if you shouldn't have to mention Reloaded, explain to me why then it would be asinine to not bring them up?

 

Secondly, I do believe this is a straw man. In my original post, I was arguing against leaving a game mid match due to lower quality of play caused by server issues, in favor of having more balanced matches by staying and allowing match maker to work. My logic was that you can adapt to the server's very frustrating shortcomings with time, while leaving a server all together, perhaps with hope that you may be placed in a better server; is counter productive to what a player can do to achieve what they want in this context. The context is having fun in Hawken.

 

Reloaded still, has no place in my original post because I was asserting what an individual player can do to have fun in Hawken. I will humor you though.

 

If Reloaded isn't following through with promises to make this game better/fix things, simply putting up with their crap isn't going to MOTIVATE them to actually get around to fixing this game. 

Appeal to consequences. 

Reloaded has no obligation to us, and like you stated above; own the game and control the game.

 

Anthropomorphism.

Reloaded is a business entity, not a thinking, feeling person we can "motivate" into doing anything.  

 

So if the servers performance is BAD, it's not necessarily a good thing to keep playing on bad servers as Reloaded might get the idea that it's a non-issue.

The developers of Hawken use the forums for insight on current issues in the game. They aren't going to use player count as the sole evidence that server quality is acceptable. Based on how often server performance is mentioned on these forums I am certain they know when we aren't satisfied.

 

  Why is my "personal bias" an issue?  I'm giving my opinion here after all, I thought personal bias would be implied any time opinion enters the discussion.  I'm biased against poorly built server infrastructure and propping up poor business practices of developers/companies, that a problem?

I said "Your personal bias has been noted." Your post could have easily been a good stand alone one, yet you decided to make it as a response to mine. Hence why I perceived some sort of bias. I never stated that there was a problem or issue with your bias nor did I give you reason to believe I had any issues or problems with your bias.

[Ukabix]

If everyone that has d/c'ed or completely left Hawken over server infrastructure issues (for this example, I know many more issues exist) instead trudged through all of Hawken's problems with unyielding determination and kept on playing; Reloaded (and ADH in the past) wouldn't be very motivated to do anything about the poor server quality.  Reloaded isn't this benevolent entity that has your gaming experience and well-being in mind, they're in this for the $$ and finding ways to maximize how much $$ they can make.

 

Point taken, but what do you suggest we do to change the server performance?

Stop playing the game we like and wag our fingers at the developers with a serious face telling them in an instructive manner that they are bad boys and will get their bottom slapped if they continue to behave like that? I am not sure if that would help :)

[coldform]

Point taken, but what do you suggest we do to change the server performance?
Stop playing the game we like and wag our fingers at the developers with a serious face telling them in an instructive manner that they are bad boys and will get their bottom slapped if they continue to behave like that? I am not sure if that would help :)

I bet there is some data point that is affected by poor server performance - say, number of packets sent/recieved over time or something along those lines - that RLD can see. With that information, they will likely assess what can be done for the least out of money, while still being an effective solution.

Can someone quote me and throw up the priorities meme? I'm still on my phone...

[TheButtSatisfier]

I bet there is some data point that is affected by poor server performance - say, number of packets sent/recieved over time or something along those lines - that RLD can see. With that information, they will likely assess what can be done for the least out of money, while still being an effective solution.

Can someone quote me and throw up the priorities meme? I'm still on my phone...

 

[coldform]

My butt has been satisfied. Many thanks, good sir.

[ATX22]

Point taken, but what do you suggest we do to change the server performance?

Stop playing the game we like and wag our fingers at the developers with a serious face telling them in an instructive manner that they are bad boys and will get their bottom slapped if they continue to behave like that? I am not sure if that would help :)

 

Complaining on the forums and still dumping time and money into the game, to me, is closer to: "wag[ging] our fingers at the developers with a serious face telling them in an instructive manner that they are bad boys and will get their bottom slapped if they continue to behave like that".  If enough people leave (happening now) and the revenue stream diminishes enough, they'll have to take notice and fix things or eventually the game folds.  We can all keep doing the same thing and generally get the same results, or do something else.  Do whichever seems more productive to you.

 

 

Alright. First of all, if you shouldn't have to mention Reloaded, explain to me why then it would be asinine to not bring them up?

 

 

... snip ...

 

.. You, as in Flifang shouldn't have to bring Reloaded up first for me to be granted permission to do so.  

 

To avoid giving the mods a reason to descend on this thread, I'm not reading/responding to the rest, I've given my opinion, take it or leave it, I don't care which.

[Ukabix]

Complaining on the forums and still dumping time and money into the game, to me, is closer to: "wag[ging] our fingers at the developers with a serious face telling them in an instructive manner that they are bad boys and will get their bottom slapped if they continue to behave like that".  If enough people leave (happening now) and the revenue stream diminishes enough, they'll have to take notice and fix things or eventually the game folds.  We can all keep doing the same thing and generally get the same results, or do something else.  Do whichever seems more productive to you.

Good point again mate.

On the other hand. I can bet that there are people who would rather keep the current status quo than take the risk of the game shutting down permanently. I think that attitude is a sensible one. Imperfect Hawken is better that no Hawken.

[Charcoal]

When pubbing, every game mode boils down to rule #1: DO DAMAGE.

To think that you can win a match without doing the most damage is just delusional.

Y'know, trentik has 2 practices a week where we reinforce raw dm skills...

 

What? I've been in quite a few games of Siege where my team has been outdamanged, outkilled, and didn't even make the MV* slots but still won...

Admittedly rare, but common enough

[Flifang]

 

To avoid giving the mods a reason to descend on this thread, I'm not reading/responding to the rest, I've given my opinion, take it or leave it, I don't care which.

Your original opinion was in a matter-of-fact tone that ended with a statement that was like something you would say to a child during a lecture and was downright condescending from the get go.

 

The only thing you actually addressed from my post was server quality. Yes, that was the basis of what my post was about but your logic in that post is flawed. You assume that if the number of players that have left over server infrastructure issues, a completely unknown and impossible to obtain figure given lack of evidence; stayed it would, in theory be enough to sustain the game's expenses to keep running. That is what I am able to infer from your first sentence.

 

My post was on what players could do. It had nothing to do with what the developers can do in regards to server issues. I've heard three variations of your opinion at this point and it still doesn't change the fact that it doesn't belong anywhere near my post, let alone this thread.

 

Yes, lower player retention rates are quite the red flag for companies dependent on players as their main source of revenue, but complaints work just as well. Funny enough, that's a major function of forums. I'm sure you knew that though, despite the entirety of your "opinion" being off topic from both the post you responded to of mine, and the thread itself.

 

Next time, just say "lol, TLDR" so I don't waste my time.

[hellc9943]

Yes, Hawken is no longer fun.

[TheButtSatisfier]

Complaining on the forums and still dumping time and money into the game, to me, is closer to: "wag[ging] our fingers at the developers with a serious face telling them in an instructive manner that they are bad boys and will get their bottom slapped if they continue to behave like that".  If enough people leave (happening now) and the revenue stream diminishes enough, they'll have to take notice and fix things or eventually the game folds.  We can all keep doing the same thing and generally get the same results, or do something else.  Do whichever seems more productive to you.

 

Given the small number of active players PC Hawken has right now, I would be genuinely surprised if the revenue we provide covers what little cost this game incurs. PC pilots staying or leaving before the new patch is released is likely inconsequential to Reloaded since keeping this game online is a low-cost foothold into the PC market. They'll probably determine if PC-Hawken is worth the effort based on how the market responds after the first updates are released. Keep in mind their cash cow now lies with the consoles, so we're even lower on the totem pole than we were before.

 

Reloaded is following a business plan, and our itty bitty community isn't going to be teaching anyone a lesson by staying or leaving.

Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 26 August 2016 - 06:44 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

Given the small number of active players PC Hawken has right now, I would be genuinely surprised if the revenue we provide covers what little cost this game incurs. PC pilots staying or leaving before the new patch is released is likely inconsequential to Reloaded since keeping this game online is a low-cost foothold into the PC market. They'll probably determine if PC-Hawken is worth the effort based on how the market responds after the first updates are released. Keep in mind their cash cow now lies with the consoles, so we're even lower on the totem pole than we were before.

 

Reloaded is following a business plan, and our itty bitty community isn't going to be teaching anyone a lesson by staying or leaving.

 

 

I'm curious.  How is console Hawken doing these days?  I can't read the damned console forums to see if there's any activity there... but I'm interested to know if there are many new people over there having discussions, what they think, and what kind of problems they might be having.  I'm sure there's also somewhere to get population numbers...

[Hyginos]

I'm curious.  How is console Hawken doing these days?  I can't read the damned console forums to see if there's any activity there... but I'm interested to know if there are many new people over there having discussions, what they think, and what kind of problems they might be having.  I'm sure there's also somewhere to get population numbers...

 

5-600 players between them. 

[TheButtSatisfier]

5-600 players between them. 

 

Damn that's dropped. Wasn't it in the thousands a few weeks ago? Maybe it's because it's in the morning.

 

If not, then I think Reloaded (and Hawken across all platforms) is in some fuzz.

[StubbornPuppet]

5-600 players between them. 

 

 

Damn that's dropped. Wasn't it in the thousands a few weeks ago? Maybe it's because it's in the morning.

 

If not, then I think Reloaded (and Hawken across all platforms) is in some fuzz.

 

Eeek.  At any time of day that is abysmal for an online video game in it's first two months.  A game never really becomes "more popular" as time goes on... just the opposite in most cases.  That's why I've previously stressed how important a "first impression" is.

 

When I shop on Steam or PSN, the first thing I do is filter by "What's New".  Then, I look at reviews.  I'd say that it's fair to say that's what most people do... and even that 90% of game reviews are issued within the first couple of weeks of release... correct me if I'm off on that figure.  But, if you release a game that isn't finished and those unfinished areas are ones you plan on addressing later, the reviews and first impression are all going to be made already - it's too late.  And once it is no longer coming up in "What's New"... folks aren't very likely to see it or care.

 

So, the only thing left for Hawken now is "word of mouth".  It's going to have to become an AMAZEBALLS game soon, if it is to survive the year.

[ATX22]

Given the small number of active players PC Hawken has right now, I would be genuinely surprised if the revenue we provide covers what little cost this game incurs. PC pilots staying or leaving before the new patch is released is likely inconsequential to Reloaded since keeping this game online is a low-cost foothold into the PC market. They'll probably determine if PC-Hawken is worth the effort based on how the market responds after the first updates are released. Keep in mind their cash cow now lies with the consoles, so we're even lower on the totem pole than we were before.

 

Reloaded is following a business plan, and our itty bitty community isn't going to be teaching anyone a lesson by staying or leaving.

 

True, the PC community here has shrunk so much I doubt we have enough "whales" here to even pay the bills.  Beyond server rentals, I haven't got a clue though what anyone who's not new would be spending their cash on.  If this upcoming patch is what the future of PC Hawken hinges on; I hope it's not going to be an existing asset flip that the console versions turned out to be.  It's been years since anyone has really done something with Hawken, it's (IMHO) beyond the point of "we've waited this long, we can wait a year longer" for some actual REAL changes/content/fixes/etc.

 

Again though, I'm not trying to teach them (or anyone for that matter) a lesson, more along the lines getting their attention.  So far, they've NDA-silenced themselves at least once, been giving us updates that are pretty light on details, and still basically delivered nothing new in the [PC] game.  A game that post-ADH-tweaked isn't exactly the game that was getting awards back in 2012.

 

 

Damn that's dropped. Wasn't it in the thousands a few weeks ago? Maybe it's because it's in the morning.

 

If not, then I think Reloaded (and Hawken across all platforms) is in some fuzz.

 

It's been dropping since it released on consoles, I think on the PlayStation is was consistently over 600 a week or two ago for the most part with the Xbox being the first to see a population drop.  Maybe the Xbox project Scorpio and PlayStation 4 Neo will help a little with the extra horsepower under the hood to drive Hawken on their updated hardware.

Edited by ATX22, 26 August 2016 - 05:21 PM.

[StubbornPuppet]

Well, from what I experienced last night, I'd have to answer "Yes, Hawken is no longer fun."

 

That's not a final answer or anything like a "goodbye", but... just... "ICK!"

 

First, after going through every mech and trying to figure out what all was screwed up by the data migration (which was actually quite fun and entertaining), I went to find an online match and there was only ONE - only one, single, solitary match in the entire US server list - it was on TDM... and it was full.  Then, even when it showed plenty of open slots, I kept getting "cannot join" messages.  It took me about 30 minutes before I was actually allowed to join.

 

Second, It was a mess from a balance and fun perspective.  I played three matches in a row and all three were a plague of parties and smurfs.  Every match ended with scores like 25 to 6.

[Leghorn10314]

IF YOU are the 600 point bully, I mean HACKER, I mean so-talented demi-god, then yes.

I've been a 1500 MMR for 3 years. I'm trying to hang in there,

but it's all bullies.

Game Assessment: RUINED.

Cause: no development since they abandoned a temporary (and never fixed) tweek to many aspects that sucked as changes, yet are still right there. Let me repeat: No PC development. No one bought the "working on the back-end" lies you spit for two years.

 

Best intuitive movement and combat system I've ever played is rendered useless and BAD simply by chronic neglect.

Time promised as development for PC was a cover for the console devs.

So RUINED and ABANDONED

 

that's how I feel.

 

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

I had fun last night. I've picked up g2 assault in the last few days and have been having a blast with it! There's no boom but the DAKKADAKKADAKKA keeps me warm ;)

[Shade__]

I had fun last night. I've picked up g2 assault in the last few days and have been having a blast with it! There's no boom but the DAKKADAKKADAKKA keeps me warm ;)

daka daka is what keeps me sane when i can't have my shotguns of truth.

Edited by Shade__, 04 October 2016 - 11:49 AM.

[007eleven]

For me personally, I won't be playing it for a while unless a new update comes out.  I'm just tired of the repetitive game modes and lack of things to do after I got all the mechs.  I'll still play here or there, but wont dedicate nearly as much time to it as I used to.  As of now I have plenty of other games to keep me busy like OW and battlefield 1. 

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

^ I think rethinking you're "I got all the mechs there is nothing else" strategy is the way to go. Having the mechs imo isn't enough. Are you proficient and deadly with them all? No. Neither am I. There is a lot of fun to be had in making the above a true statement.

[X0X13X0X]

I am having a lot of fun playing Hawken.