18 replies to this topic

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Devs,

 

I know you had *reasons for needing to update PC quickly, and I understand the advantage that patching/fixing PC prior to (expensive) updates on Console gives you.

 

G2 mechs on PC severely reduce the TTK (at least for A-classes, and I think it's true across the board). #thespeedsareincreased, but movement doesn't seem to save anyone.  Kirby flies higher and seems strong; Ord seems strong in this meta, I don't know about Vytro, and Jobs seems 'meh' from where I sit (YMMV).

 

G1 mechs are generally slower, more-forgiving, and easier to fight.  More approachable as a newer pilot.

 

I don't know how you will resolve unwinding G2 mechs from the playerbase, but it's either that or a different proposal:  have a 'Gawd Tier' server group which allows G2 mechs and a 'G1 Only' server group for newer pilots. 

 

This may help alleviate stompage; G2s are sure to cause 20,000 RPM whining (and uninstall) from newer players.

 

Thoughts?

[DingdongJR]

The general mood of the G2's is that they are basically a straight upgrade, and from what I have seen the devs do have a solution in the works for it. How this is going to be done is anyone's guess but they do know it's an issue.

[Siamenis]

Stick to G1's and challenge yourself against superior opposition. What better way to hone your skills.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

Reminds me from diablo 3 when they pushed forward the expansion. They made all the slick gear obsolete. I had a great skorn I could have sold for a lot of real money that was useless after the update. Had to happen though for the game to grow. That's what's happening here.

TTK for G2 scout is 0? Great I say! Especially with some of the new internals making it boost faster than a fully opened up blitzing G2R. There has to be a trade off, I like that they're glass cannons now.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Bill,

I didn't mention scout in this thread, but I can make the G2 and G1 both work.

I can make other G2 mechs work too. The point is G2 mechs DON'T really have tradeoffs, they're just better, and that's a problem in my view.

[TangledMantis]

With the smaller hitboxes, the scout 'dance' is actually pretty effective. G1 considering my graphics are all screwed up and permanently windowed, I still did pretty decent. Couple times I wondered to myself how I managed to survive against and harass three class b's at the same time for so long. 

 

Just kept doing what I always do except this time im a lot harder to hit.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

Bill,

I didn't mention scout in this thread, but I can make the G2 and G1 both work.

I can make other G2 mechs work too. The point is G2 mechs DON'T really have tradeoffs, they're just better, and that's a problem in my view.

Correct, I was using scout as an example where it's different in a good way with G2. Not sure devs plans we've heard this or that but maybe g2's are better then down the road EOC WILLING the g3's are a direct upgrade to the g2's. I've spent a little cash to bling my g1's out - not rolling the entirety of my 401k retirement into chassis parts like crafty - and if they're not as good moving forward, eh whatever as long as we start getting a fairly steady stream of new mechs. I also see this move as a good way to force players to go to g2's or try new mechs. Not so bad I think. But, you could always just play with the g1 knowing it's weaker and just rely on your superior fighting skills to pull you over the line.

[FRX23]

G2s shouldn't be better than G1s but different.

 

I played Hawken fron such a long time with the idea and the feel that every mech got its pros and cons.

 

If now, mechs are officially not on the same line, be sure that people will whine and i may be one of them.

[Copy3ms]

I dont really think that sending all G2 mecks to another server would solve the problem. The game as it is right now doesnt have enough players to pull a stunt like that. I think that G2 should be in a way modified to fit with the G1 (regular mecks), give it all different weapons, like going from the Assault to the G2 assault, you loose one weapon, to compensate for two of the same, less versatility all around. 

[StubbornPuppet]

Having the G2's be better/direct upgrades is a bad idea.  They should, as others have said, as I've said in the past, just be alternate versions that are based on the G1 - they should be harder to master and provide benefits that are only apparent once mastered, so they appeal to the veteran pilot... and the benefits should also be countered by deficits that also require mastery to overcome.

 

I also like the idea, for now, of G2 only and G1 only servers.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

Everybody wants change but nobody wants to change. These devs f'd with this catch-22

[Malyngo]

Just came back to the game, and just now realized that G2s are now upgrades to the G1.

WHAT THE fuzzy bunny IS WRONG WITH YOU?

[Xer06siX]

Reminds me from diablo 3 when they pushed forward the expansion. They made all the slick gear obsolete. I had a great skorn I could have sold for a lot of real money that was useless after the update. Had to happen though for the game to grow. That's what's happening here.

TTK for G2 scout is 0? Great I say! Especially with some of the new internals making it boost faster than a fully opened up blitzing G2R. There has to be a trade off, I like that they're glass cannons now.

Skorn...RIP. I had a godlike axe that had soo much life steal it was unbelievable. Ahh the good old days before the expansion, really back when the paragon levels capped at 100. Those were good times. I lost a lot of stuff too $$ potential especially with the AH being done away with. Oh well :-)

 

Get clem.

[Evacerberus]

Well, having mechs that are a direct upgrade of the one you were playing is just bad game design. All it does is encourage grinding, but it does very little in the way of actually retaining players. Sure, having a goal to work towards is nice, and making people stay to grind for the better versions SEEMS conducive for retention, but when new people get stomped on, most aren't going to wait around to grind for the better machine, they are going to just leave. I like OP's idea, having servers separate G1/G2 variants of mechs. I wish they never rolled out to begin with, but now that they are here, removing or changing them too significantly is going to peeve off all the people who already purchased them. If 505 is feeling ballsy though, it would be kind of nice to have variants of the same mech that have slightly different weapon loadouts/stats, that cater to different niches that the mech could perform in. For example, maybe keeping a G1 Predator as it is, but making it so the G2 has a corsair GLA as it's secondary, changing it's stats a bit, and increasing it's 1v1 capabilities, but making it's stealth a bit more like the Infiltrator's, just so it's similar enough for players of the original to get a feel for it, but different enough to be it's own version. (Not a wish, but just an example.)

 

TL:DR

 

G2's being a direct upgrade is bad and you should feel bad. 

Edited by Evacerberus, 27 May 2017 - 04:47 PM.

[TangledMantis]

Are you sure? Have you seen the G2 Vanguard? That aint standard issue.

[MomOw]

the actual "G2" is just a way to make you grind until you can buy it. It's a bad meta. I prefer the G2s were dealt in the older version.

 

Now that we have this kind of stuff, why not make the G2 faster / less tankier with fixed primary... basically projectile and more burst.

[fez]

Yeah I've got enough cash to fork out for a G2, but I'm really hesitant to pull the trigger.

 

On one hand, I feel iffy about them being pure upgrades, I feel a bit dirty about buying one.

 

On the other hand, I'm concerned what G2 will morph into into time, if this attitude is prevalent and G2's fail to sell.

 

So I really don't want one at this current point in time.

[Epsilon_Knight]

Oi, time to play devshill's advocate.

 

pay-to-not-grind/pay-to-grind less is a hallmark of f2p games.  There needs to be a reason for people to grind, or most of them won't, and by extension they won't pay to skip the grind.  The game has to make money.  Especially now that purchasing weapons is not tied to mech rank, internals not tied to pilot level.

 

If G2 is just a side-grade, especially if it's more difficult to use like the old G2Raider, few people will pay for it.  The camos and cosmetics are not enough to keep hawken afloat -- people buy the look they want and then they're done.  The devs are looking to rework G2s, but everyone should know, they're going to necessarily remain more desirable than G1s, otherwise no one will give a shirt about unlocking them and the revenue dries up.

Edited by Epsilon_Knight, 29 May 2017 - 12:21 PM.

[StubbornPuppet]

Oi, time to play devshill's advocate.

 

pay-to-not-grind/pay-to-grind less is a hallmark of f2p games.  There needs to be a reason for people to grind, or most of them won't, and by extension they won't pay to skip the grind.  The game has to make money.  Especially now that purchasing weapons is not tied to mech rank, internals not tied to pilot level.

 

If G2 is just a side-grade, especially if it's more difficult to use like the old G2Raider, few people will pay for it.  The camos and cosmetics are not enough to keep hawken afloat -- people buy the look they want and then they're done.  The devs are looking to rework G2s, but everyone should know, they're going to necessarily remain more desirable than G1s, otherwise no one will give a shirt about unlocking them and the revenue dries up.

 

Which is why I believe that gamers are pulling away from F2P games these days.  We're tired of screwing with all the nonsense and ready to just get back to paying up front for a good, well balanced, fun, reasonable game - not all the hassle and B.S.