32 replies to this topic

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

Since the update more and more I see less and less of TDM matches I can get into. Don't get me wrong, I can definitely get gudder but it looks like I'm about 500 MMR points off from pre-update and for whatever reason I cannot move the needle. The usual TDM match I can find I end up steam rolling the server as my MMR is wildly low right now. I can start a server but I think because of low MMR my fellow robros can't join and it takes a long time for someone to come by. It has gotten to the point that most of the time I can only find a bot match that I can get into which isn't so bad as I am constantly testing out new internal combos in The Horny Toad MKII. Last night is a good example, I finally got a good TDM match I could get into but that was after an hour of playing bots, checking TDM, playing bots. This is Wine and Hawken Saturday night people, finding a good TDM server has never being an issue on such a glorious night. Are others experiencing this?  

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

I think matches shown to you by the browser are sorted by ribbon-class now.

 

I think new players start at something around 750 MMR.  The most I've seen it move is about 4 points a match.

 

I think legacy/grandfathered players have about 400 removed from their pre-patch MMR.

 

I think legacy nosebleed MMRs are so far above the server average the logistic curve scalar is about 0.001 (meaning the MMR gain for topping that server is miniscule and the penalty for not topping is large). 

 

I think this will have diamond-level 2200 (new MMR) players running away, and making it so they can really only find one another to play.

 

I experience similar issues as you waiting for a match - I know people are playing, I just can't see them in the browser.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Oh, and I think diamond-level is about 1650 in the New MMR?

[Amidatelion]

Oh, and I think diamond-level is about 1650 in the New MMR?

Should be 1750 but that's pre-patch console stats, could be wrong.

[DieselCat]

This is a joke ...besides there are mostly empty servers (this should be going into peak play time on NA of this posting)...almost every server that does have a player(s) in it, I get the red msg of death telling me "this server is outside your skill lvl" or "not accepting new players" where the server isn't full. This includes Co-Op matches.

 

Had to go to an EU server jsut now to finally find an opening to get into a match. This is all happening on a new account I had to create to be able to play since my Legacy account can't be accessed and I'm not getting any response back to support tickets about fixing it.

 

This update has been a total disaster to say the least....Hope the Dev's are having a great time at E3. 

[Broham78]

I can't get in anywhere either. A lot of people can't launch the game now or just quit playing altogether. The few that are still here can only play together if the planets are perfectly aligned and they do a rain dance at the stroke of midnight. If I open the browser and hide all empty and disabled servers, all I get is a blank screen, or if I'm lucky one bot server with a single player in it.

[WillyW]

Same for me, as per all the replies. Only bot servers available. Rarely ever get into anything else. The only way for me to get into a server is to party up, which usually ends with being forced into an empty server anyway.

[fez]

Yeah same issue for me.

[thedark20]

Game is nearly unplayable for me anyway, FPS drops are all over the place. I just use quickmatch anyway and that seems the best way of geting into a match

[StubbornPuppet]

Unless the game is making some servers (via server browser) completely invisible to me, I'm seeing almost nothing but Bot/Co-Op TDM matches with either 1 player or full.  If I do see a Siege, or more rarely, a MA match, it's always showing just 1 or 2 players and is greyed out by showing 0 stars.

 

I can also see, as I pointed out elsewhere, that the dumb-to-begin-with "Star Quality" system is FUBAR.  There are never any matches which are anything except 3 stars or 0 stars.  Considering that my MMR is right in the middle of the average, I should be seeing a wide variety and be able to join most matches.

 

I am also trying to remember that we have a long way to go though - as far as both updates AND player-count.  Mostly, it's the player-count that I'm concerned about - I just don't see how a game of this age can attract enough new players to justify the work being done.  Maybe, just maybe, all this work is in preparation for some larger plan... like a proper sequel or a totally new game.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

It's good to dream. A killer storied campaign would be unreal as well as the idea of a sequel but let's not fool ourselves, this team has a lot of work cut out for it in just getting all the current issues sorted.

I noticed last night there have been changes made to how matches start. 2 readied pilots can't start a tdm match anymore, in fact it was requiring a lot more ready pilots than usual to start a match, 8-9+. Ability for lower mmr pilots to join higher mmr games that they recently changed has been taken away too. Wonder what else changed. This would explain not being able to get into a lot of matches. Perhaps a lot of the ability to get a game current issue is tied to these changes. No need for devs to respond but I know that's an easy fix on their side that doesn't require a client update I believe. Fingers crossed it's something easy to fix like this.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

I noticed last night there have been changes made to how matches start. 2 readied pilots can't start a tdm match anymore, in fact it was requiring a lot more ready pilots than usual to start a match, 8-9+.

 

This is set per-server, I believe, and differs between testdallas, NAm, and Dallas servers. 

[popeco]

Amen to everything said in this thread.  Game performance / hitreg / general clunkyness issues aside, I've tried to suck it up and play new version a few times but just cant seem to get into a match, even with my post-patch MMR (that doesnt seem to be going up or down either way -- I'm confused how new MMR works, is it locked?).  Lucky if I can get into a semi-full Bots TDM.  

 

Went from playing a few matches a day pre-patch to one or two a week if I'm lucky.  Hoping things get better from here, miss my Hawken mornings.

[StubbornPuppet]

Whatever it is going on with MMR stagnation and matchmaking, it certainly seems to be encouraging alt accounts.  When I do finally break down and decide to join the one TDM match that's open to me, it's always a few people like me, a few noobs... and the rest are brand new accounts being played by people who are way above the skill of the rest of the match.  And the SRD doesn't ever go up - match after match, the same new accounts are destroying the rest of the field... they never seem to rise above the MMR level for the matches.

 

(I'm not saying this is the same, ongoing match in the same server.  It's just the same pool of players who keep ending up in the same rooms together.)

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Maybe a new bronze smurf will move up the MMR about 4pts a game, from 750 to about 1100, or two or three weeks playing bronze-level matches.  Probably about two weeks to reach gold, and about another week to make it to diamond.

 

Sound about right?

[StubbornPuppet]

Maybe a new bronze smurf will move up the MMR about 4pts a game, from 750 to about 1100, or two or three weeks playing bronze-level matches.  Probably about two weeks to reach gold, and about another week to make it to diamond.

 

Sound about right?

 

Don't know if that "sounds about right" for what is actually happening or not... but it shouldn't be like that.  The game should be looking at new accounts for very rapid MMR placement - make a bunch of drastic adjustments over their first 5-10 matches until it seems they are average for the matches they're placed in, then stop adjusting quickly and move onto that gradual, 4pts or so graduation.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

That's what the log-normal curve was originally for, to award people more MMR for doing well over their current level, and awarding less as they find their level.

 

It's broken this way too.  I think the better behavior is incentivized/trained by making anyone who tops the server on a server below 1600 new MMR instantly get 500 MMR - and then have to try to keep it.  True newbs can get knocked back down, and smurfs would either have to play restrained, or be moved out.

[Ezodev]

MMR is a joke now. I was ~~2150 before, now I'm 1800. Blaster was 2300, I think - now he's 2K. Meanwhile god-tier players MMR is roughly the same. And newbs are still around 1500MMR, I think. So 2k+ players are squashed below 2K with newbs. It makes no sense. It should be other way around. Keep newbies separate and veterans close.

 

Slightly offtopic, what the hell happened to the playerbase? I haven't played for some time, and now whenever I try to play, there are no servers. No people on the friendlist. It's worse than ever before. Previously there usually was at least single nearly-full TDM server at any time.

Edited by Ezodev, 20 June 2017 - 02:58 AM.

[PsychedelicGrass]

Before the update I had around 2500 mmr, now I'm at 2270 or so and it randomly goes up and down. Some people have had no change, others lost a lot like I did.. I think there's also a few people with 3000+ mmr. I dunno if it's glitchy or what the deal is but it's messing with balance and the matches I can get into :/

[CZeroFive]

There is definitely something up with MMR, as some of you have noticed - we've been fixing cases manually where people get absurdly high MMRs. In most cases, it seems to be that something is causing players to jump from a very low MMR to a very high one. We're investigating and will provide an update when it is available.

[Amidatelion]

There is definitely something up with MMR, as some of you have noticed - we've been fixing cases manually where people get absurdly high MMRs. In most cases, it seems to be that something is causing players to jump from a very low MMR to a very high one. We're investigating and will provide an update when it is available.

Or you could.

You know.

Remove it.

[CZeroFive]

Or you could.

You know.

Remove it.

 

The idea has been presented before internally, and as I posted in another thread we're evaluating options on what we can do.

[fez]

I'm kinda in the "remove it" camp too tbh, as someone has mentioned, there's really not a population to support mmr matchmaking atm.  I'd rather be a fuzzy bunny mmr, getting my arse handed to me by a high mmr player, than locked out and not playing at all.
 

Having said that, talk is cheap, and I have no idea the effort required to remove matchmaking/mmr.  It could be a herculean task, for all I know, or a simple tickbox on a server setting.

Edited by fez, 26 June 2017 - 11:18 PM.

[ICERAY2000]

My experience is different, in that my MMR hasn't changed at all in 3 years. A solid 1450. I see dozens of servers every time I log on - empty, but available. As for some sort of filter for MMR, the others players are always totally better than me, so I do not even consider it, and since the update I have NEVER seen a single game without 3 stars for a rating, never - except the test/private ones, which I don't go into anyway.  I don't pay any attention to it now, and because of the wild skill level differences, I all but avoid completely any PvP or TDM games. I have onesuggestion for a fix, as I don't see how you 'fix' the incredible and vast differences in skills. Just look at the standings and you'll see there's an elite, a glut of over-achievers, and the rest of us trailing along; the only way to "level the playing field" is to use what Golf does, what horse racing does - handicap all players to a single standard. Otherwise, as it has for me, the elite will drive away all other players, because it is just not FUN - no fun in it at all - being burned repeatedly by players who never miss, never die, and outscore us 10 to 1. No fun at all.

[coldform]

mine is frozen. it doesn't go up, down, sideways, diagonal, anywhere. 1938.4658203125027.

its been that way since it rolled over into the new system.

 

although, I haven't been playing anywhere near as much as I used to...

Edited by coldform, 29 June 2017 - 03:32 PM.

[CZeroFive]

mine is frozen. it doesn't go up, down, sideways, diagonal, anywhere. 1938.4658203125027.

its been that way since it rolled over into the new system.

 

although, I haven't been playing anywhere near as much as I used to...

That's because the MMR that is visible on Scrimbot and Laila in Discord pulls from the wrong stat. I had Ashfire fix Scrimbot. It's up to whoever maintains the Discord bot to fix the other stat.

[ArchMech]

That's because MMR is the wrong stat.

agreed, only "kills enemy out of sight" matter, please add to leaderboard plz plz plz

[William_Adama]

 

 

 

mine is frozen. it doesn't go up, down, sideways, diagonal, anywhere. 1938.4658203125027.

its been that way since it rolled over into the new system.

 

although, I haven't been playing anywhere near as much as I used to...

 

yuuuup i agree and it's still broken, o but they add those usless ribbons that i still have no idea what they do i have yet to figure out lol.  just play co-op tdm and unlock your inner skynet until the update in few months time. joking a side, im sure devs are head deep in code and i hope they fix the MMR problem with the next update and the rubberband, and the hit reg have it like the first 4 days of the update without the loss of the 280 MMR that went missing.

Edited by William_Adama, 30 June 2017 - 12:28 AM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

That's because the MMR that is visible on Scrimbot and Laila in Discord pulls from the wrong stat. I had Ashfire fix Scrimbot. It's up to whoever maintains the Discord bot to fix the other stat.

 

Both the MMRs Scrimmy report are moving appropriately for me.  Not sure why Cold's was not moving at all.

[DingdongJR]

[Evacerberus]

 

Poor CZero, he's doing his damnedest, I hope he gets paid enough to be a Dev, mediator, and community manager 

[Gueber]

Probably living on cup noodles with Hawkens budget.

[Silverfire]

That's because the MMR that is visible on Scrimbot and Laila in Discord pulls from the wrong stat. I had Ashfire fix Scrimbot. It's up to whoever maintains the Discord bot to fix the other stat.

 

Discord bot scrapes Herokuapp user profiles for MMR value, which is set by naming a mech "PublicMMR," and Herokuapp pulls from the API that Ashfire uses for Scrimbot. However, there will be no code changes for Herokuapp to adjust for the new Seasonal MMR values and "normal" MMR values, and has not been for years.  

Edited by Silverfire, 30 June 2017 - 12:39 PM.