34 replies to this topic

[CZeroFive]

Some folks may have noticed forum spam robots recently. We've cleaned them up as best as we can by nailing them at the root cause. We won't be going into details on what we did, but it should also generally clean up future alternate forum personas.

 

There may be a few stragglers, and we'll clean them up when we can, but for the most part there should be no more forum spam. To see what gets through, we've temporarily placed a 1-post restriction on the forums. You'll have to be patient if you're new to these forums to have your post approved.

 

As always, if you see something that shouldn't be on the forums, report it, do not post in the thread, and move on.

 

Thanks,

Hawken Devs

[ArchMech]

but...hes a native resident and also the sponsored mascot of the Howkistan salt republic

#FreeBABAJI
 

As always, if you see something that shouldn't be on the forums post in the thread, and move on.
 
Thanks,
Hawken Devs

i'm doing it right?

Edited by ArchMech, 30 July 2017 - 02:11 PM.

[Guns_N_Rozer]

honestly i don't know how long you can fight with BABAJi , he will be back soon . or may be - for new member how about first PM to the forum admin for approve ?

[DingdongJR]

honestly i don't know how long you can fight with BABAJi , he will be back soon . or may be - for new member how about first PM to the forum admin for approve ?

 

we've temporarily placed a 1-post restriction on the forums. You'll have to be patient if you're new to these forums to have your post approved.

 

Or.. perhaps.. recruit some community Forum managers to help monitor and manage the forum so that said Cat Faced Dev can focus on fixing the game. Let the community police itself. 

Edited by DingdongJR, 30 July 2017 - 02:58 PM.

[6ixxer]

It has been mentioned previously that they will not allow community moderation.

I think limiting the first post will reduce this, and beyond that we need to wait for a company rep to swing by and act on reported posts.

Edited by 6ixxer, 30 July 2017 - 07:10 PM.

[DerMax]

Or.. perhaps.. recruit some community Forum managers to help monitor and manage the forum so that said Cat Faced Dev can focus on fixing the game. Let the community police itself. 

No.

[dorobo]

[Zavier_]

Did anyone from here launched those bots? Something is very fishy

[Gueber]

Bots did nothing wrong.

 

They just want to help.

Edited by Gueber, 31 July 2017 - 03:08 AM.

[DingdongJR]

No.

 

Why not? What's wrong with that?

[DerMax]

Why not? What's wrong with that?

The same as with the forum warriors?

[DingdongJR]

The same as with the forum warriors?

 

Forum warriors? What, people who just mindlessly police the forums and not even care about the topic or reasoning behind a post? 

 

If you were talking about the Mech Mods, I would agree with you. But are you honestly implying that some of the loyal and dedicated people of this community would simply amount to blindly enforcing the rules?

 

I already have enough warning points on my account for the horrendous crime of "abusive behaviour". The abusive behaviour of replying to someone with a single image post. Oh, the horror. No, I think many people here know exactly how it feels to be policied by such rules, and as such won't become the mindless drones the mech mods were.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

DingdongJR,

 

We had community spam warriors the very first time Baba-Ji appeared, on the older forums.

 

They could flag posts for moderation, by an actual Mod.  They had the power to keep posts from being viewed until Mods (paid ones) could review.

 

But then ADH went bankrupt.

 

And then the spam warriors could use their secret powers (secret from the rest of us) to soft-ban prominent members indefinitely, since, you know, there were no paid mods to review that flagging.

 

And much community cancer took root.

 

I think Der's right, and while we may trust you, we don't trust everyone who could have this power.

 

So none should have it.  Unless you're on the 505 payroll or cat-faced.

[DingdongJR]

DingdongJR,

 

We had community spam warriors the very first time Baba-Ji appeared, on the older forums.

 

They could flag posts for moderation, by an actual Mod.  They had the power to keep posts from being viewed until Mods (paid ones) could review.

 

But then ADH went bankrupt.

 

And then the spam warriors could use their secret powers (secret from the rest of us) to soft-ban prominent members indefinitely, since, you know, there were no paid mods to review that flagging.

 

And much community cancer took root.

 

I think Der's right, and while we may trust you, we don't trust everyone who could have this power.

 

So none should have it.  Unless you're on the 505 payroll or cat-faced.

 

It's sad that there is such a lack of trust in this community as a whole, but if people are not given the chance to prove themselves then what's the point? To really test a person's character, give them power. 

 

Just because people in the past have abused said power does not mean potential future moderators will do the same. I am sure with CZeroFive acting as oversight a system could be set up to manage these community moderators, and make sure they don't abuse these powers.

[CZeroFive]

It's sad that there is such a lack of trust in this community as a whole, but if people are not given the chance to prove themselves then what's the point? To really test a person's character, give them power. 

 

Just because people in the past have abused said power does not mean potential future moderators will do the same. I am sure with CZeroFive acting as oversight a system could be set up to manage these community moderators, and make sure they don't abuse these powers.

 

It is a liability that we're not willing to risk.

[Nilithium]

It is a liability that we're not willing to risk.

As much as I hate to dump in a shaker, I think you should handpick a small task force. You are faced with the exquisite goal of fixing a game that was old and run down, but you then proceeded to downgrade in all respects by pushing a mirror to the consoles, which brought us the following (rolling off topic, but trust me):
-Useless/bugged internals (Heavy Armor/Group Repair for Tech)
-A bloated UI with worse graphics quality and overinflated buttons
-The inability to change weapons on the same robot when respawning
-The terribly organized mech web
-A G2 meta that downgraded all of ou G1 robots we paid for and maxed EXP on as an excuse to buy more robots we already had but were now slightly worse
-Disabled the ability to purchase different hull parts despite a clear class icon on both allies and foes
-Followed that up by creating an even more confusing electric skin that made it difficult to discern the hitbox of a bot, and followed that up with a golden eyesore compared to the rest of the cosmetic options
-Terrible matchmaking priorities
-A billion BotsTDM servers and not ONE TDM match with actual people if it isn't a weekend
-Notable weapons bugs and hitbox disarray (this has notably been fixed on most things except drones and turrets, gj)
-Customization errors (G2 Assault can equip an Assault Rifle, C-RT Recruit was spotted with an SMC and an AR)
-Sudden weapon/item changes with not even so much as patch notes, god forbid a change log
-The use of exclusive G1 packs to not only skip unlocking all the G1 bots (which you do have a technical right to do so) but to also hold Nief and Charge hostage, since they are G1 mechs that are not available
-Certain mechs are outright better compared to other mechs, or more versatile with their unexplained (Kerby vs Reaper's Precision Overdrive and how it benefits those weapons, or Charge/Civ vs Bruiser's Magnetic Armor(better)/Damage Absorb(worse), for example)
-Still no Spectator mode
-And finally (here's the kicker) NO tutorial explaining item usage, mech differences, ability changes between mechs, what universal EXP is, etc.

That last one is something you learn over time, but it changes from a learning curve to a learning wall when a seemingly easy kill Berserker flips the tables on you as an Assault when you start out. I had to sit down an dig up the wiki and have that explain to me the different mech and their abilities to be able to adapt and corner them with it. It speaks volumes on the versatility of the Assault, but having to resort to 3rd party documentation is not a great sign.

I daresay you don't have your priorities in order, and despite this 'brave step forward' that 505 Games has taken to update the game to sync with it's console brethren, it feels like I've taken a step into a steaming pile of conspicuous brown nuggets.

You've degraded our current mechs, and given us slightly better but uglier carbon fiber alternatives with no armor personality to replace them. You've kneecapped my items, making them have less uses while ensuring the price is the same or higher than it was previously while limiting my cosmetic choice, my #1 reason for investing into the game aside from purchasing thrusters/repair droids and transferring universal XP. And just to top it off, you made the weakest mech in the game even weaker, topping an important part of any team to just 300 HP unless I want to pay 15000 HC for the 15 more HP and slightly higher footspeed I already had.

Listen, I'm really sorry for all the salt. I came into the old HAWKEN loving everything about it, despite all of the weird quirks with internals, despite the high learning curve, despite the nonexistent matchmaking and getting crushed by gods like Brooklyn77 and WrmFromMissouri in G2 Raider and Rocket Scouts until I learned how to parry and outlast them. But this update... This only positive things I have to offer are:
-Better Crossfire support (I use an AMD A10-7890K + R7 250 in Dual Graphics)
-Advanced Replenisher (Stealing kills as a Tech removes 50% of your ability cooldown, which might be OP, but I'm not complaining at this point)
-Third person view before a battle (Finally! Now I get to enjoy all those mech cosmetics I'll have to abandon if I want to maintain a competitive advantage!)
-Bot Destruction! (If you could even find another person to play it with.)

There was so much hype around this. This was supposed to be the update where I would actually be able to say to my mates: "Come play this cool new title I found!" without them being stuck in a newbie vs pro situation. This was supposed to be the polished update we were told would bring HAWKEN into the new age where an advertising campaign would bring the droves of Titanfall and Mechwarrior players to come play the most unique and fantastic take on the mech combat scene I have ever seen in my life. This was the update I was told would finally bring more mechs and players into the fold, spicing up the meta with new bots to play with, more bots to contend against, and an actual use for all those mech power ups I got on my way to Level 30 that I could never use because you couldn't play Bot Destruction, which turned out to be really fun after the hitbox fix (is still kinda iffy on drones and turrets). I'm not one to fall for the hype train easily, but we believed that 505 had come to wake those sleeping mech covered in vines and swamp water to shamble from their makeshift graves to fight anew as the battle between Prosk and Sentium raged on. With technical advancements that birthed a new line of G2 mechs that turned the category on it's head, I was so pumped to learn all the new G2 flavors that turned out to be nothing more than a cash grab.

That is all. Thanks for your work, CzeroFive, but as a person who had never heard of HAWKEN in March of 2017, this is a big step in the wrong direction as far as the game itself goes. The engine modernization was pretty great, but that's about it. I'm genuinely sorry about the salt, but I was hoping HAWKEN would be the hot new game I'd just found and would leap from being good to great. Instead, we're here. You still don't have to make a taskforce, but please listen to us. Take notes. It's pretty clear you weren't paying attention when making the PC UX a mirror of something meant for thumbsticks and triggers, not keyboards and mice.

Sorry again, have a good day.

Edited by Nilithium, 31 July 2017 - 11:29 PM.

[6ixxer]

It's still beta.

RLD devs werent given the luxury of a big budget and big team. They have found and fixed some huge technical issues that you never even knew about.
I understand you see the little things as dealbreakers. The devs have to fix the foundations that the little things balance atop.

*In b4 some has to fully explain Adhesive technical debt.

[6ixxer]

And IMO, the massive rant wall wasn't necessary, and didn't help your point. The topic of the thread wasn't "tell us where you think the devs have gone wrong" and I found it a chore to read.

[Nilithium]

And IMO, the massive rant wall wasn't necessary, and didn't help your point. The topic of the thread wasn't "tell us where you think the devs have gone wrong" and I found it a chore to read.

It was probably where they gave us a tested version that was a lot smoother than the one we got. Also, the UI as far as PC went was a lot more useful than the nothing more than inflated console UI we have today. And these are little things, but they stack up quickly; I'm not a fan of having the robots I worked for taken down a peg as an excuse to get more of them, as well as being incapable of finding a match to use my now mediocre bots in without bots everywhere that are easy opponents. That's exactly how to chip away at your own user base. Had they not released this mitigated dumpster fire, I would've kept throwing more money at them.

Edited by Nilithium, 01 August 2017 - 04:22 AM.

[DingdongJR]

It is a liability that we're not willing to risk.

I honestly don't see what there is left to risk here. The only valuable part of this communication is your cooperation. The moment we lose Dev communication and enter another great silence is when this game will really die. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[Silverfire]

getting crushed by gods like Brooklyn77 
 

 

[Amidatelion]

 by gods like Brooklyn77 and WrmFromMissouri in G2 Raider and Rocket Scouts 

 

[Nilithium]

Playing Technician is tough around those guys. They'd pick you off in 3 seconds flat before my patient was smart enough to turn 180.

Edited by Nilithium, 01 August 2017 - 06:53 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

Fuzz, I remember when WmMoneyFromMissouri was a newbie and I took him under my wing and taught him... and watched him outgrow and exceed me in every way.  But I still get my licks in on him when he gets too cocky.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

When does season 2 start? We can remeasure who is good.

[6ixxer]

 But I still get my licks in on him when he gets too cocky.

ghey

[CZeroFive]

I honestly don't see what there is left to risk here. The only valuable part of this communication is your cooperation. The moment we lose Dev communication and enter another great silence is when this game will really die. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

It's not my decision as a programmer to make decisions for the community regarding community moderators.

[6ixxer]

Nor to hold hands with the community via the forums.

We appreciate your posts, and that you are a busy guy.

Is there no one else on your end who has communication or PR in their job description who can spend a few minutes a day (or even Mo, We, Fr) to quell the ragers and note the concerns; perhaps even vague comments about whether things are on track?

Otherwise, i guess i'll try to wait patiently until you can squeeze it in when you can.

Cheers,
6ixxer

[Quad_X]

I'll give you the worst example of community moderation: Starbound Forums on Steam in their official hub. None of the moderators (this may have changed) are devs for the game or even on their payroll. They are simply friends of the devs or long standing members of their Chucklefish forums. That team locks down any posts that contain any negative feedback about the game and it's developement, any constructive criticism gets locked down and deleted and the poster banned. They went so far as to lock down a post with a youtube link to show new players how to play Starbound calling it advertiesment spam. While thus is all going on they pick and choose who they ban without so much as a warning. I've been banned permanently from that forum simply for responding to several posts within a few minutes and being accused of spamming flaming and topic derailment. People who posted in the same thread, blatantly breaking rules that the mods enforce on other members without ever getting a ban. Why? because they are fanboys for that company and kiss dev and mod booty on chucklefish forums.

 

I don't want to see Hawken forums here or on Steam degrade to such petty nonsense. It may have been frustrating for me to sit on this forum posting once every 24 hours but at least I don't have to submit to the mod's ideas for social engineering in a game forum. I agree with no community mods because they will abuse it. Especially because people can't leave what happens in the game there, they will abuse mod power against a rival on the forums. That is all.

[valon79]

Playing Technician is tough around those guys. They'd pick you off in 3 seconds flat before my patient was smart enough to turn 180.

Something that might help is;

 

1. we all know that 90% players dont post in mmo(well) games or at least not often, a question here or there.

 

2. The feedback is from the top players in community(and very exclusive here)

 

3. new or even older players that didn't vet up to the forums now have even less of a voice if they decide to post.

 

4.  in a lot of ways ppl on the forums now have a good idea whats wrong with gameplay.

 

5. They have no idea or don't seem to care whats driving the new or moderate players away, as they mostly play among themselves unless they can slum down a few 100/1000 mmr and dom the server. (this is the one that is pushing a lot away IMO(including me) playing with someone 600 mmr above ave or higher is very frustrating.  Not only in that it is being done, the fact that they can do it, and the rest of us have to sit or check back for games within 200 mmr and even then can't get in sometimes. (and don't tell me it isn't happening b/c I play against it a several times a week) then they seem to tag in a friend to take their spot before they leave.  or it becomes a 2k+ server when it was a 1500 mmr server before they arrived. 

[StubbornPuppet]

At this point, do these forums even need moderation?

 

We all know what everyone thinks already... the moderation we do have comes days after something objectionable is posted, so everyone has already read and responded to it... and people seem to have as much fun (or more) replying to spam and s#!tposts as they do actually discussing the game.

 

So, why bother?  #freeforallforum

[6ixxer]

At this point, do these forums even need moderation?

 

We all know what everyone thinks already... the moderation we do have comes days after something objectionable is posted, so everyone has already read and responded to it... and people seem to have as much fun (or more) replying to spam and s#!tposts as they do actually discussing the game.

 

So, why bother?  #freeforallforum

 

The only moderation I saw as necessary was about the first few posts rule.

Keep the spammers out and let the new pilots post...

 

...otherwise, let the fuzzy bunny flow.

When people speak their minds and it is not to the liking of the community, they will soon find out ;)

[valon79]

The only moderation I saw as necessary was about the first few posts rule.

Keep the spammers out and let the new pilots post...

 

...otherwise, let the fuzzy bunny flow.

When people speak their minds and it is not to the liking of the community, they will soon find out ;)

yeah, guess now that most of good info is gone or not needed and being locked out for 4 years whats the point now lol

[6ixxer]

It's still here, in the collective that is the remnants of the community.

 

Ask, and we shall impart our wisdom with large helpings of sarcasm and bunnies that are fuzzy.

[Luaq]

Bots did nothing wrong.

 

They just want to help.

Suuuuuuuuuure lol


Goddamn Boston Dymanics. fuzzy bunnyng scary fuzzy bunny since 2008 big dog video