17 replies to this topic

[Pixues]

This infinite self healing needs to go imo.

 

It's like modern shooters, hide, wait for health regeneration to kick in. Continue playing. Repeat infinitely.

In this case it doesn't 'kick in', you have to do it manualy.

 

But i think the infinite part should go.

 

Lets say your self-repair pool is 3-4 times that of your max health. 

After you're out, you're out. Until you respawn that is. 

I don't actually want to get into the numbers, its about the principle.

 

I genuinely believe the game would be better.

Edited by Pixues, 08 April 2015 - 10:16 AM.

[CrimsonKaim]

I think removing health orbs would solve your problem, and you would get far more support.

[Pixues]

I think removing health orbs would solve your problem, and you would get far more support.

 

I don't mind the orbs...something has to be killed first. much more situational. Heals a bit.

Not a big as a problem as a player self replenishing over and over with no end.

Edited by Pixues, 08 April 2015 - 10:25 AM.

[defekt]

The game was better before healing became abundant and cheap*. 

 

* objective fact subject to objection

 

Someone suggested making Orbs volatile in order to bring some risk back into healing: if a health Orb takes any damage, even from AoE, it detonates like a small bomb (with perhaps damage roughly equal to half a normal grenade).  It's actually quite an elegant solution.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

I think we should just reduce the maximum amount you can get healed per second, so standing on top of 3 orbs won't give you ridiculous regen.

 

For example:

• Tech healing
• Orbs

Would all contribute to a value of healing per second that is capped at like.... 50-70 or something. Might need to change around numbers for repairing or the green beam, idk it's just an idea.

Edited by Rainbow Sheep, 08 April 2015 - 11:23 AM.

[(P:B)Augmentia]

I don't see any problem with the healing at the moment. Hawken doesn't really fall into the same category as the other games such as COD. Hawken is fast paced, and there has been non real issues with the healing as of yet. The healing actually handicaps you pretty well, as it take you a certain amount of time to get up after. In that time you can be killed quite easily. Quite a few of my kills have been when the enemy have their figurative trousers down. You are very defenseless while healing.

[Superkamikazee]

This infinite self healing needs to go imo.

 

It's like modern shooters, hide, wait for health regeneration to kick in. Continue playing. Repeat infinitely.

In this case it doesn't 'kick in', you have to do it manualy.

 

But i think the infinite part should go.

 

Lets say your self-repair pool is 3-4 times that of your max health. 

After you're out, you're out. Until you respawn that is. 

I don't actually want to get into the numbers, its about the principle.

 

I genuinely believe the game would be better.

 

Which leaves you vulnerable making it a risk (current TTK), and is a cool mechanic that differentiates the game from every COD clone out there. I enjoy the risk / reward system repairing offers. It adds some decision making, stay in the fight, or retreat to fight another day. 

 

Nerfing orb lording's already been discussed at nauseum. With health orbs nerfed, health regens effectiveness is a no longer a concern.  CapnJosh has mentioned it will one of the first things he'll be looking into regarding balance improvements.

[LoC_TR]

Here's a thread on orb lording. I think it covers most of the Orb gripes. Trust me, the devs are aware of this one.

[Bad_BennyAK]

I personally don't see any problem. the REPAIRS  are TOTALLY different than health regenerating in other cheesy Call of Duty games, or whatever.   When you repair,  you HAVE to be stationary,   and you are VULNERABLE to MASSIVE damage while repairing, if you are hit.  So not only does this take time,  you have to make sure you are in a safe place to repair.   ALSO,  you loose your radar capability,  so you have strictly visual camera movement to save your butt.  Considering the fast-paced nature of this game,  being down 7-10 seconds is almost an ETERNITY,   it's often quicker to just die and respawn,  with a FULL new loadout.  In fact,  in some situations, I prefer dying and respawning to repairs,  it's quicker.  

 

Nah,   there is no problem here.  If you are too healthy,  it just means your not fighting hard enough. 

[Bad_BennyAK]

Again,   a mountain out of a molehill.  I have no problems with Armor orbs,  if anything,  maybe either reduce a bit, the armor available, or shorten the duration it lasts on the playing field.   What makes armor orbs so good is they encourage frontline fighting,  which is CRITICAL for mechs like the Raider,  who thrive on up close kills.  Not every player is a chickenpoop pansy that snipes and hides.   

 

The idea of orbs giving extra armor to the person who gets the kill?   Cheese.   armor is armor.  I play this game to blow mechs up,  not to have a carrot and stick reward system and little "attaboys" to make me feel better about myself.  

 

the STRENGTH of this game is in the DIVERSITY of playing styles,  and the moment this game changes, or specifies ONE playing style, ie. Assult only, or Sniper only, Range only,  or Up Close & Flak only,   it LOSES it's appeal.  I'm willing to bet $20  the people who complain about orbs are medium range players or long range snipers.  Learn to play up close!  

 

I WILL say, I have a friend who tends to play sniper classes.   He was unhappy with the snipers, thought the gun should be MORE powerful with perhaps a longer reload.  But that's a different topic....

[LoC_TR]

 

This infinite self healing needs to go imo.

 

It's like modern shooters, hide, wait for health regeneration to kick in. Continue playing. Repeat infinitely.

In this case it doesn't 'kick in', you have to do it manualy.

 

But i think the infinite part should go.

 

Lets say your self-repair pool is 3-4 times that of your max health. 

After you're out, you're out. Until you respawn that is. 

I don't actually want to get into the numbers, its about the principle.

 

I genuinely believe the game would be better.

 

 

Whoops, not talking about orb lords.. Gettin ahead of myself.. Nah the manual sit down stays. Thats the risk!

Spoiler

Orb builds for MA, TDM in which your enemies DROP orbs.

 

3 slot Repair Kit, 2 slot extractor, 1 slot fuel convertor or deflectors / Items includes some combination of Mk-3 orbs 

 

Orb builds for DM

 

3 slot repair kit, 3 slot advanced reconstructor / Items includes some combination of Mk-3 orbs 

 

The strategy here is to place a orb on a fallen enemy (or ally) so that you suck up their orb and your own orb super fast. You can basically negate any damage coming at you. You can only be killed in this situation if you're being focused by multiple opponents, sometimes 2v1 isn't enough! You can also boost-dodge over the orbs so you take even less damage when your deflectors proc. Or more more fuel (fuel convertor) which you basically exchange for health, if you're constantly being healed and shot it's a win-win-win. 

 

This meta pretty much negates the gameplay you speak of, there's virtually no risk in healing in this situation. Even worse if a Team of Orb builds that snowballs you're team with each person killed. 6 players, 6 mk3 orbs, 18 orbs, plus your own death orb. Imagine a player that is sitting on 4 or 5 orbs (orbs stack 50, 100,150).. pretty much invincible.

Edited by LoC_TR, 09 April 2015 - 03:31 AM.

[bacon_avenger]

The OP may also be referring to the Reconstructor internal...

 

'After being out of combat for $FOO seconds, the mech regenerates $BAR armor per second.'

 

This was one of the CoD style internals added with ascension, one that I objected to during HAB.

[Scow2]

... I like the Reconstructor. Especially on my Brawler.

The OP is clearly talking about self-repairing. Frankly, I think he's wrong about it. Self-repairing requires you to:
1. Find a safe place to heal.
2. Completely drop your guard.
3. give up a great deal of awareness.
4. Let your team get slaughtered without you.
5. Let the enemy escape unpunished.

#4 has been my biggest deterrant to self-healing. It hurts seeing the healthbars of my allies dropping, knowing that trying to go in and help would just result in me getting slagged myself.

[bacon_avenger]

... I like the Reconstructor. Especially on my Brawler.

The OP is clearly talking about self-repairing. Frankly, I think he's wrong about it. Self-repairing requires you to:

"It's like modern shooters, hide, wait for health regeneration to kick in. Continue playing. Repeat infinitely."
This is what made me think of the reconstructor.

However, if the OP is referring to the stop and repair function of the game, then I definitely agree with the 'no, it needs to stay' option.

Stopping to repair has been a core mechanic of hawken since the beginning. The problem with repair (AKA heals) now, IMO, is that it's too easy and plentiful. The tech, repair orbs, internals....

Repairing used to be a high risk thing that required some thinking and planning, not so much now.

[Scow2]

"It's like modern shooters, hide, wait for health regeneration to kick in. Continue playing. Repeat infinitely."
This is what made me think of the reconstructor.

Eh... I don't think the Reconstructor heals fast enough to make this viable.

[KamikazeCommando]

I find that killing the person is a good way to stop them from healing. If you, or your team mates don't pay attention and don't chase them down/finish them off ( from a good sniping or flanking position ), then ofcourse you are gifting them the chance to heal...

 

Also, kill the Tech first... ;)

[bacon_avenger]

Eh... I don't think the Reconstructor heals fast enough to make this viable.

But it is 'hide, wait for health gen to kick in, continue playing'

[VYR3]

remove healing orbs and give the mechs each 100 more HP and I'll be happy.

 

...maybe only 50 for light mechs.