43 replies to this topic

[Spiderz]

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My name is Spiderz, i'm a devote Brawler player, i think turret mode should be removed, replaced with something different or changed drastically, please show your support by replying to this thread and vote on the poll.

please respond what you think should be done with turret mode
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As a class C Brawler player, i never use my special ability, ever. if i accidentally press F on the keyboard i have killed myself because suddenly i'm not moving and TOW are suddenly coming from every direction.

after multiple discussions both on teamspeak and even here on the forums with the community its evident that turret mode is a complete waste of time that serves no purpose at all.

it is useless

time after time, i kill new players in turret mode, i cannot actually think of a time that turret mode actually defended anything from me and when i see it i think "sweet free kill!"

usually when you see a player in turret mode everyone has a chuckle on teamspeak and says "he must be new" that player then explodes soon after

this is how bad turret mode is - a clear, obvious sign the player is new and hasn't quickly figured out yet that the turret mode is not only useless, but suicide.

while i sit in the garage between games i notice icons on those ability things, on the rare chance i play a class other than the brawler, i have a hard time remembering to press F because i've played Brawler so long that i've forgotten that special ability even exists - i don't think its fair that we get stuck with using nothing at all, i want some sort of proper ability too, i am missing out. now is the time to fix turret mode

[ADH]Saunders, on November 20 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

Take one of those bad boys on top of the AA (or inside of it), and go into turret mode and see how much longer you last.  That AA is yours.  Does that help_

If you still find it useless, what would you do to change it_

-i personally suggest turning the armored arms into a non-combat riot shield you hold infront of you in walking mode that absorbs majority of damage so you can use team tactics to help team mates advance forward-

[Aelieth]

Voted for removed or changed drastically. It's apparent to me that Meteor has no clue how to handle turret form - this has been something talked about since Alpha 2.

Sorry Meteor, I believe in you guys for the most part, but not about the class C mechs. Between turret mode and seekers I'm totally baffled by the reasoning. Have to be frank about it, this has been discussed so long I feel like it's kicking the dead horse now.

[Dracoslayer16]

the idea of an immobile turrets is a good idea for a team game but right now the ability provides almost no benefit.  Almost no defense boost and no attack boost brings to question, what's the point_

[Hipnox]

Turret mode should not be the special ability of all C mechs because it's not a universally useful mechanic.

For long range combatants like the Rocketeer, it's an acceptable and cool idea. Might need some work but it's an interesting mechanic, to say the least.

For medium/short range howver, it's a total liability and will get you killed. It doesn't work and goes against everything that defines Hawken's play style.

I want my rocketeer with Turret mode, i just don't want it nor need it on my brawler



It's not that turret mode is flawed, it's the idea that all C mechs should have one that is flawed.

Edited by Hipnox, November 23 2012 - 01:06 PM.

[RipperT]

I would have to agree with changing the brawler and giving it something else instead of turret mode. I have also only used turret mode recently on C class accidently. I am not in favor of removing it on all C class though.

How about the ability to change out it's special weapon in favor of a short term secondary special_

Edited by RipperT, November 23 2012 - 01:41 PM.

[The_Silencer]

Can't ready any (*big) green text, sry..  Reminds me of the OB1 counter too much...

Edited by The_Silencer, November 23 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

C-Class Swagger

I support this message.
Trying to use turret mode as a Ballin' Brawler is suicide and completely counter-intuitive.
Trying to use turret mode on my Mean Green Nading Machine is of extremely limited usefulness, and is only reserved for pubstomping.
Rocketeer is the only C-Class that having a slow turret mode makes sense on, because of their ability to fight at ranges, and even then, it's still worthless.

[145154151164145]

I still think you should get access to a heavy siege weapon in turret mode.  Give it ridiculous damage but a slow moving, slow reloading projectile.  I think that would make things most interesting.

Edited by 145154151164145, November 23 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[SuicideNeil]

I like turret mode, I've had some great fights using it and would not like to see it vanish or drastically altered. Access to a special weapon in only turret mode however would be cool and make it more worthwhile perhaps...

[Alloycat]

I like the idea of a turret mode for the c class. It could certainly use some love though, and maybe not being on all c classes.

In terms of the mode itself I think it could use some combination of:

• more mobility (maybe even VERY limited and costly boost/dodge_)
  
• a much faster set up/take down time
  
• some kind of missle defence tool.
  
• the ability to repair without having to leave turret mode 1st

One more general thing that I think might help it is the inclusion of an 'anti-mobility EMP' defensive item option. This would make it a little easier for C class mechs to set up effective traps using turret mode and might see it get a little more use.

[Aelieth]

Okay, I had my rage moment back there - was playing games with my little one and thought of ideas as I was in imagination mode.
These would totally replace the abilities as they are:

• Rocketeer - Ability to change into a totally stationary mech. The struts on top come down to the ground and secure the mech. Afterwards the mech moves into a 45 degree angle with its weapons pointed upward. At this point the mech's radar switches places with the basic view, allowing it to target an area and then bombard it with its Heat / EOC and Hellfire rockets which have a larger radius of damage. This ability allows the Rocketeer to work an artillery unit, with indirect fire (allowing it to shoot over buildings and objects) - but based only upon a 145 degree area in front of it with a 60 meter reach.
  
  • This makes the radar very important, the mech can only fire at what it can see on the radar. Teamwork and strategy would be very important.
• Brawler - Struts come down to function as a riot shield for a period of time, blocking all damage up to X amount. This has been mentioned by other players and I think it would be a great fit for a mech that has up close weaponry and allowing it to be the one to break into controlled areas by using brute force, such as an AA.
  
• Grenadier - Mech squats down at the area it is at, the struts come down to its side, they open and ready themselves for release. The player presses the primary attack button to release a 360 degree smoke barrage. The player presses the secondary button to release a 360 degree barrage of explosives. Both have the same looking shells and also bounce off of any walls or objects they come into before detonating together with a click of the same button that released them - or after 5 seconds.

Crazy ideas, but thought what the hey... can't hurt!

[AsianJoyKiller]

Aelieth, on November 23 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Crazy ideas...

You don't say...

[Dackstrus]

I personally always thought those big arms on top could've been launchers. For other mechs.

Yes, you read that right, I wanna jump on a deployed class C and get launched across the map as class A. Right for their snipers.


In actuality, Boost the switch time, increase explosion resistances by 50%, Bullet damage by 30%, but turn slower for Rocketeer.

Grenadier should have a longer set-up time, but it increases the range and damage of weapons, Same move speed as current deployed rocketeer.

Brawler can continue moving while deploying, Only swinging the arms around infront of themselves, and taking a flat 20% damage reduction from the front, Losing only 15% Move speed.


Edit: I should also mention Grenadier would'nt lose aim speed after transforming, Hell, those poor bastards need to actually aim ahead and airshot.

This is also the max level of each ability, with the actual stats slowly rising to these numbers, instead of these at base.
That means at level one your mech while transformed would have:

Rocketeer: Explosion resistance 20% Bullet Resistance 5%
Grenadier: Would Gain a quarter as much range and damage as at max, I don't know what would be appropriate numbers..
Brawler: Would lose more speed, and take 5% reduced damage from the front.




Edit Edit: Oh fuzzy bunny... bac9 Totally owned my ass as far as ideas go. Like 4 posts down.

Edited by Dackstrus, November 24 2012 - 11:40 AM.

[Spiderz]

Dackstrus, on November 23 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

I personally always thought those big arms on top could've been launchers. For other mechs.

thats what i thought they where before i first played hawken

edit: wow i totally spaced, i totally got the wrong idea, i mean actual missile launchers, i really should pay more attention rather than reading the first sentence and making a reply

Edited by Spiderz, November 24 2012 - 02:19 AM.

[Necro]

I like the idea of a 3rd weapon in turret mode. Makes you feel awesome  also if in turret mode they absorbed heat from weapons so you never or hardly overheat.

Also perhaps their repair drone can be out doing things since they are mostly stationary, repairing them if they sit still or even acting as a small turret_

Edited by Necro, November 23 2012 - 09:59 PM.

[sen]

+1 even though i'm not a class c player.

[bac9]

One thing we need to take into account is that every part of every mech is available for every other mech of that class. Therefore, requesting unique functions and different mechanics for different C-class mechs is pointless (like having struts for static deployment on Rocketeer and riot shield on Brawler at the same time). No incompatibility should be introduced. Additionally, we have all these nice shield models and animations, and dumping this huge work is unlikely, so we have to think of a solution that will put existing content to use.

So, here is what I think.

My suggestion would be to leave turret mode but accentuate it's functionality. Actually, rename it into shield mode.

First, that nice shield we have should provide massive DIRECTIONAL protection on the front, absorbing half or even more damage. Maybe even enable some sort of active defense device similar to ones used on real tanks that will shoot some of incoming projectiles like missiles (also, fancy explosions for visual candy).

Second, that shield should protect your teammates behind, making it viable as mobile cover for advances through choke points defended by the enemy. If it turns during balancing stage that an actual bounding box of the shield model is too small to provide viable cover, developers can still expand the covered area a bit, if necessary - justifying munitions neatly exploding on larger invisible surface with active defense systems.

As a disadvantage, this protection is strictly directional: while straightforward attacks on you are very dangerous and deal little damage, enemy can attack from from behind and sides without that damage penalty. And from these attacks, you will be vulnerable due to limited mobility and lack of boosters.



This way, this special ability will have value and tactical meaning. Currently, it just provides a 30% damage reduction non-dependent on attack direction, and this, coupled with limited mobility, just helps you to die. With higher damage reduction like 75%, cover functionality and flanking vulnerability, this mode will have a clear fuction and benefits. It will allow you to dominate in one-on-one midrange encounters, to force retreats beneficial for your team and to blast though choke points while preserving your fragile teammates. At the same time, these changes will introduce clear ways to counterattack you, which will benefit the tactical diversity of the game.

For example, you can jump an A-class mech from mid-range in a Grenadier, absorbing direct damage and quickly decimating him. Or, if opposing pilot was better, that A-class mech will quickly dodge your fire, disappear, and 30 seconds later, jump you from behind, kicking your slow ass with a flak cannon. To counter that you will have to rely on escort provided by your teammates, who, in exchange, will receive some protection from direct attacks, breaking from you to engage ambushes from flanks after surviving initial fire exchange behind your back. Lots of potential situations, each with a clear countering solution. I think it would be nice.



This solution is also compatible with every mech specialization, from mid/long-range Rocketeer (lesser field of protection, e.g. 60 degrees, lesser mobility, slow regeneration from Brawler - and there we have a specialized long-range turret that will have to track opposing forces to stay protected), to CQC-specialized Brawler (give him larger field of protection, like 90-120 degrees, more fitting for close range firefights with multiple enemies and forcing enemies to flank more agressively; give him mobility bonus that was sitting without use on Rocketeer - and there we have a shield mode a Brawler pilot won't call a guaranteed disadvantage).





P.S.: Oh, also.

Edited by bac9, November 24 2012 - 02:13 AM.

[SamSlade]

Give turret mode an anti-missile system... so when you're in turret you get the defensive bonus AND incoming missiles have a high chance of being intercepted by flares or high velocity low calibre ballistic rounds(a min-minigun).  Right now it's a Rocket/Hellfire magnet.

With an AMS it would be a benifit to teammates as well.  Make it a staging point/choke point holding mech.

Edited by SamSlade, November 24 2012 - 12:46 AM.

[Spiderz]

lol hello samslade

[bac9]

Added some pics to my suggestions.