43 replies to this topic

[Spiderz]

bac9, on November 24 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

Added some pics to my suggestions.

nice bac9, i can't see them dumping all the work done on those animations either, but we definitely could use what you described, it'd actually be practical and people could use it in team environments, mad props on the drawings!

[bac9]

And some examples.





Oh, and also this:

Edited by bac9, November 24 2012 - 02:14 AM.

[Wyr]

Actually I was thinking turret mode is something to be used in siege mode, and maybe some very special cases. I was imagining a scenario, where two grenadiers are taking high ground, and an agile scout is well… scouting, placing radars, and the grenadiers work like mortars with indirect fire in turret mode. In the reality of the game this does not work.  The pictorial (very well drawn) scenarios above would make sense, but I'm afraid that's not what the turret mode is intended for. Maybe a total redesign of it, or changing to to something else would be better.

[defekt]

No, no, no.  As in, yes, yes, yes.  



Brawlers slam down a pair of ^these mothers and blitz forward under afterburners doning impact damage and a bit of knockback, pop back up and mix it up the way that God Himself intended.  None of this daft hunkering down cobblers.  http://community.pla...ion/#entry91919

Give the Grenadier a semi-deployable riot shield that keeps them upright and somewhat mobile.

Only the Rocketeer's role suits the current turret mechanic because it is essentially a 'monkey pushes the button' stand-off weapon.

[FluxX]

Spiderz, on November 23 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

-i personally suggest turning the armored arms into a non-combat riot shield you hold infront of you in walking mode that absorbs majority of damage so you can use team tactics to help team mates advance forward-

Sounds similar to an idea I had in Alpha. Needs to be a "charge" button for the brawler. It puts the shields down, charges forward (with massive defense buff). Downside is it cannot fire during the charge, but could soak up damage from missiles ETC.
Second would be a use similar to the current turret, with more defence as now, but can be "knocked out" of defense by any missile or high damage per second. So it would be more useful than now, but only be used less (as can be deactivated by opponents).

PS, and YES to bac9 and directional defense. It allows the mode to be buffed and still have a weakness.

Edited by FluxX, November 24 2012 - 07:39 AM.

[Zer0Aim]

i support the idea of a slower moving,less damage dealing turretmode  that provides some good defensive stats.
with slower i mean a bit slower  and not the turret mode in his current state that make you lose 90% of your movement.
voted for remove or change.

[Hipnox]

I'm just going to leave this here...

Edited by Hipnox, November 24 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[defekt]

Hipnox, on November 24 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

I'm just going to leave this here...

Such a thing would be fine for the Rocketeer, and at a push the Grenadier (mobile damage reduction would be more suitable here), but wholly inappropriate for the Brawler.

Edit: It makes me chuckle that you've put a foresight on that thing.  

Edited by defekt, November 24 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[Spiderz]

that cannon idea is mad!

[ReachH]

Give them a mortar or something that can lob over buildings. Otherwise it is literally useless. Boosting around corners is far superior to sitting there like a rock and dying.

[Spiderz]

ReachH, on November 24 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Give them a mortar or something that can lob over buildings. Otherwise it is literally useless. Boosting around corners is far superior to sitting there like a rock and dying.

i heard rumors of a mortar class

[EMEUTIER]

bac9, on November 23 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

-snip

That's some great diagrams you have there dude!

[Spliff_Craven]

I have a similar poll running and have more ideas there: Turret Mode Check it out!

[Alloycat]

Having played a lot more C-class over the last week or so, and given this a bit more thought I've come to a few conclusions. Most notably that the Brawlers turret mode is actually very useful. Not so much as a tool to use in combat, but as a slower repair (about half the speed - it's really pretty good) where you can still fire.


Pretty sure you've all come across the situation where you've retreated from a fight and found a 'safe' spot to repair only to have someone boost round the corner and blow you to pieces with a TOW_ Using the Brawlers turret mode to repair (if I'm not totally sure I'm safe) has saved from this a hell of a lot recently. The damage reduction can help survive anything they do get off before you blow them away.


In light of this I'd like to see turret mode for all C-Class mechs changed to have the slow repair, making it actually useful, and given a small buff on top based on the mech type. My suggestions for these would be something like;

• Grenadier - Repair + VERY small radar signature when turreted (and maybe more detection range too_). - allows bombardment/sniping from concealed locations more safely.
  
• Rocketeer - Repair + Increased damage. - good for shooting things with rockets.
  
• Brawler - Repair + Allow it to dodge and quick 180, but at VERY high fuel cost (say, 55% for dodge, 27% for 180 turn_) - allows it to function as a 'line breaker' by entering/exiting choke points faster.

What do you think_

Edit: Also, the HUD really needs to display map objective information (fuel/battlship/flags ect) when in turret mode.

Edited by Alloycat, December 03 2012 - 11:37 AM.

[Spliff_Craven]

Alloycat, on December 03 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

What do you think_

I quote a line form the batman movies:

"This class needs an E N E M A !"

Edited by Spliff_Craven, December 03 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Alloycat, on December 03 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

Pretty sure you've all come across the situation where you've retreated from a fight and found a 'safe' spot to repair only to have someone boost round the corner and blow you to pieces with a TOW_ Using the Brawlers turret mode to repair (if I'm not totally sure I'm safe) has saved from this a hell of a lot recently. The damage reduction can help survive anything they do get off before you blow them away.

That tactic would only work against bad/new people.

Someone like me_
They aren't going to stand there and wait for a turreted C-class to blow them away. They come around the corner and see that_ They're just going to go back behind cover, and then play hide and seek style, and you can't even run away because you're in turret mode.

[wat]

bac9, your suggestions are superb, and I think thats the general direction C should head to.  An enormous buff (like 75%) to defense in the front half at the cost of mobility (current mobility and rotation speed are fine) would provide a nice situational, strategic use - one that can help the C class player if used right, but one that can still be beat with clever flanking (if done right, even another C class mech could flank a turreted C-class.  

Grenadier and Rocketeer will do well at range, protected from other long range weapons and even from close range weapons up front, especially if they have their backs to a wall or teammates on their sides to help.  The big question is Brawler, since no one will bother to get close to a turreted Brawler with a flak cannon.  Perhaps Brawler could get a much narrower directional defense boost but a much faster (maybe even normal) rotation speed - this would make Brawler able to remain in turret mode in a 1v1, able to track the movement of a predator, rotating to face his enemy and blocking most damage while still able to dole out TOW shots.  It would effectively mean a stalemate between 1v1's against Brawlers, perhaps allowing Brawlers to be the most overall mobile C class mech.  In other words, the brawler's turret ability would allow him to rove around the map alone and passively force lone attackers to leave him alone by engaging turret mode; useful for EU collection or flanking for instance.  But if he encounters a pack of 2 or more, he loses his advantage since he will only be able to block 1 of 2 attackers.  

Grenadier and Rocketeer would be able to turret up and bombard an enemy coming from head on, then switch to normal mode once enemies are within range for CQ fights.  It would mean that attacking C classes head on is actually dangerous - forcing faster A class mechs to figure out new ways of approaching these battles.

The risk is that the game balance gets reversed and clans of C classes turtle up in a ball and maintain a small marginal lead, making for long, boring matches or stalemates.  But if done right it can simple mean bringing C class up to par with the rest.

Edited by wat, December 04 2012 - 07:17 AM.

[defekt]

wat, on December 04 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

...Perhaps Brawler could get a much narrower directional defense boost but a much faster (maybe even normal) rotation speed - this would make Brawler able to remain in turret mode in a 1v1, able to track the movement of a predator...

**ATTENTION**

This transmission has been interrupted to bring you an important message:-

*ahem*  The Brawler is the predator here; everything else is but prey.

Normal service will resume shortly.

[SamSlade]

Wall turrets!

They can jet up a blank wall and attach as a turret with a full 180' x y axis line of fire.

[Kai_Kitamura]

bac9, on November 23 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

One thing we need to take into account is that every part of every mech is available for every other mech of that class. Therefore, requesting unique functions and different mechanics for different C-class mechs is pointless (like having struts for static deployment on Rocketeer and riot shield on Brawler at the same time). No incompatibility should be introduced. Additionally, we have all these nice shield models and animations, and dumping this huge work is unlikely, so we have to think of a solution that will put existing content to use.

So, here is what I think.

That's an awesome idea.