144 replies to this topic

[Spiderz]

omg this thread is like so massive, is it really all about 180 turn_ you should be able to toggle off, otherwise its legit perfectly fine control

Edited by Spiderz, December 06 2012 - 12:59 AM.

[Gagzila]

Spiderz, on December 06 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

omg this thread is like so massive, is it really all about 180 turn_ you should be able to toggle off, otherwise its legit perfectly fine control

Ha ha, hey Spiderz...it is a pretty crazy thread...most of it is telling rdK off for how he argues his "suggestions".

Also the OP is not about turning it off, he wants to be able to decide which direction he 180 spins as he believes he can gather valuable info from what he sees during this split second maneuver .

If you're bored, it's probably an interesting (and funny in an incredulous way) read.

Cheers,

Gagzila

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

telling me off_ you are making a fool of your self for arguing over something that is obviously an improvement.

EDIT:

cheers

Knightmarez

Edited by rdKNIGHTMAREZ, December 06 2012 - 06:21 AM.

[Maoman]

Can somebody close this thread_ It's obvious that Knightmarez is just going to keep blathering for as long as people are willing to talk to him. I'm not a programmer, but I do know that even a minor change takes an extremely long time to put into effect, particularly with massive and complicated games like Hawken. The amount of time it would take to implement this 180 thing just plain isn't worth the ridiculously small bonus it would yield.

What you are proposing is more or less equivalent to spending an entire day building a complicated contraption just to pick up a penny.

Get over it, Knight. You can argue this for the rest of the year, but it doesn't change the fact that it just doesn't make sense from a game designer's point of view. This will not happen.

As for everyone else arguing with him, I suggest you follow my example and consider him a troll if he responds with anything other than something like "fine, I'll shut up."

Edited by Maoman, December 06 2012 - 07:35 AM.

[Ace4225]

[responding to OP]

it's a pointless change, because:

-you can't shoot while 180-spinning
-the 180-spin is meant to flip you around; if you want to scan the battlefield super-quickly, just turn up your mouse sensitivity and turn manually
-your example of being pressed against a wall is also pointless; if I was pressed against a wall, I would simply manually turn 90 degrees away from the wall, then side-boost away from the action.

Even if you could scan the battlefield accurately while 180-spinning [which you can't] there's no point because you:

-won't help your team
-won't be able to shoot [just to make sure that point is driven home]
-won't be able to dodge away [since you can't boost backwards, and please don't suggest a boost-back option]
-won't be facing your enemy [assuming they're there] because you turned too far.

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

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I'm not a programmer, but I do know that even a minor change takes an extremely long time to put into effect,

except this one takes 5 minutes

Quote

As for everyone else arguing with him, I suggest you follow my example and consider him a troll if he responds with anything other than something like "fine, I'll shut up."

im not a troll, im simply being logical and responding to personal attacks consistently and repetitively. I think the behavior of some of the groups on this fourm does not result in a better hawken, and its got to the point where they see 'knightmarez' and respond to the character not the idea.

Quote

it's a pointless change, because: blah blah

No it isn't, its just something a pilot with more finesse appreciates, but we all know most of you just hate me,  so it doesn't matter how truthful or logical my idea is. your going to be trolls anyway

Quote

Even if you could scan the battlefield accurately while 180-spinning [which you can't]

who are you to tell me what i can and cannot do_

are you also going to tell me i can't fire a revolver from the hip, faster than a rattlesnake_

Edited by rdKNIGHTMAREZ, December 06 2012 - 10:00 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

For all the people who are for this change, tell me what sort of situations you would use this for.

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MY MECH IS HERE ------------------o->----------------------
The wall is HERE ============================

I want to do a 180 turn. But instead of turning right.... i want to spin left.

[Zeshi]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on December 06 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

where they see 'knightmarez' and respond to the character not the idea.

The fact that refer to yourself as a "character" should really tell people all they need to know.

[AsianJoyKiller]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on December 06 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MY MECH IS HERE ------------------o->----------------------
The wall is HERE ============================

I want to do a 180 turn. But instead of turning right.... i want to spin left.

According to the scenario you've provided, there is no reason that you need to turn in specific direction.

Now let's say you want to scan the battlefield. That's not going to be helped by a 180 turn. A 180 takes a mere half a second to complete. Unless the enemy is right on top of you, you're not physically capable of scanning the battlefield for discrepancies, no matter how well you know the level.

I don't have a problem with a directional turn mechanic itself. What I do have a problem with, is the fact that you and other proponents of this mechanic are implying that it's worth the effort to put in when it is useful only for keeping track of a target that is right on top of you. You're not going to be able to scan the battlefield. Even with motion blur turned off, what you would see if you paused in the middle of the spin is distorted and blurry, making any sort of target recognition outside of your immediate surroundings completely impossible.
The only situation this would be useful in is keeping track of a target in CQC combat, which is a situation where you likely already know where the enemy is.

[D20Face]

AsianJoyKiller, on December 06 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

For all the people who are for this change, tell me what sort of situations you would use this for.

I'd mostly use it unconsciously and it'd help immerse me better.

Smoother controls are always a bonus.

Let's say that I know I need to hit somebody 150 degrees behind me to the right. It'd feel smoother for me to spin left a bit, hit 180, then move another 30 degrees in the same spin direction than it would to spin to the right then have to turn left. One option is significantly more fluid.

AsianJoyKiller, on December 06 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Now let's say you want to scan the battlefield. That's not going to be helped by a 180 turn. A 180 takes a mere half a second to complete. Unless the enemy is right on top of you, you're not physically capable of scanning the battlefield for discrepancies, no matter how well you know the level.

Has never played prophunt. I used to able to spot a misplaced tire half a map away at a glance.
You're also ignoring the fact that the game highlights your enemies when you gloss over them. Noticing a flashing red light, even for a fraction of a second, isn't hard.

ENEMY SIGHTED

[Maoman]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on December 06 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

except this one takes 5 minutes

Just because the change is subtle doesn't mean it is quick and easy to code, and the fact that you believe this would take 5 minutes to implement proves you obviously have no idea how much time and effort goes into programming these games. I will say this again: This will not happen. No matter how much argue here, the amount of effort just isn't worth it to the game designers.

Quote

im not a troll, im simply being logical and responding to personal attacks consistently and repetitively. I think the behavior of some of the groups on this fourm does not result in a better hawken, and its got to the point where they see 'knightmarez' and respond to the character not the idea.

Your idea has been repeatedly proven to be impractical and frankly, stupid, yet you still insist on arguing the same handful of points over and over again. Being "consistent" and "repetitive" is not necessarily a good thing.

Don't think you can make us the bad guys. You're not being personally attacked because somehow people just don't like you, you're being personally attacked because you're refusing to accept clearly superior arguments and logic and insisting on arguing a failed suggestion despite repeated attempts by dozens of people to explain how your suggestion is flawed. There's no group vendetta against you, you're just being ignorant and stubborn. Because of this, I believe you are a troll and in my opinion, you deserve all the insults anyone can throw at you.

[D20Face]

Maoman, on December 06 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on December 06 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

except this one takes 5 minutes

Just because the change is subtle doesn't mean it is quick and easy to code, and the fact that you believe this would take 5 minutes to implement proves you obviously have no idea how much time and effort goes into programming these games. I will say this again: This will not happen. No matter how much argue here, the amount of effort just isn't worth it to the game designers.

I've worked with Unreal. It really will take 5 minutes.

People don't use Unreal because it takes time to do things. It's a fast, easy, and full of features engine where most of the work is done for you and you primary concerns are on designing the game portion and not programming.

[Elix]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, this is the problem:


1. You posted a suggestion to the forums because you thought it was a good idea. This is a point of opinion, not fact.
2. People disagreed with you.
3. You told them that you are right.
4. Repeat 2 and 3.

The problem here is that you seem to have started this conversation with the assumption that your idea was so brilliant the Hawken devs would drop everything and implement it, and you refuse to accept that reality might not agree with you. Please try to have a more objective view of how the world works, because this sort of attitude does not make you many friends. Some people are agreeing with you, and some people are disagreeing with you. This is entirely within what they are allowed to do on this forum. Going on the defensive does nothing but make you emotionally involved in the argument.

I can't tell you what to do, and I'm not defending anything said by anyone else in this thread, but perhaps you might consider what I've written here. Who knows, you might get along with the community a bit better.

D20Face, on December 06 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

I've worked with Unreal. It really will take 5 minutes.

If you don't have proper source control, unit testing, and documentation, it'll take five minutes, yeah.

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

Quote

your idea was so brilliant the Hawken devs would drop everything and implement it,

well im hoping they have a cup of coffee first.

Quote

2. People disagreed with you.
3. You told them that you are right.

well that's because im right, and they are wrong.

[D20Face]

Is it wrong to hate myself for arguing in favor of something this person has suggested_

[Sylhiri]

D20Face, on December 06 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

Is it wrong to hate myself for arguing in favor of something this person has suggested_

No, not at all.

*pats*

To be honest I don't think I'll ever take the OP seriously again after:

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on December 06 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

well that's because im right, and they are wrong.

Edited by Sylhiri, December 06 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

http://community.pla...-dead-or-alive/

[Elix]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on December 06 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Quote

2. People disagreed with you.
3. You told them that you are right.

well that's because im right, and they are wrong.

Well, I'm done. And don't expect the devs to be more patient than me about listening to your ideas when you have that attitude.

D20Face, on December 06 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

Is it wrong to hate myself for arguing in favor of something this person has suggested_

You can like the idea even if you don't like the owner. rd HAS made a few decent, practical suggestions, but they've been submerged under attitude.

Edited by Elix, December 06 2012 - 11:33 AM.

[Ace4225]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on December 06 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

well that's because im right, and they are wrong.

excuse me, but how--ahem--ignorant-- can you be_ You cannot be right, nor can you be wrong, because this is a suggestion that has not been tested.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the scientific method:

1. Hypothesis: if-then statement declaring opinion of how an idea/argument is true/will work

I.E. : "If I let go of an object from a height, it will fall to the ground because gravity pulls it down." [hypothesis of gravity]

2. Experiment: hands-on process of testing hypothesis

I.E. litmus test [process of determining acids/bases]

3. Theory: A hypothesis that has been tested and proven true on a number of occasions, but still cannot be proven to be totally factual

I.E. Theory of evolution [self-explanatory]

4. Law: A theory that has been proven factual through undeniable evidence

I.E. Law of gravity [also self-explanatory]


Any and all suggestions on the forum are step 1: we assume that our ideas will make the game better in X way, but to know for sure, those ideas would have to be tested. However, the devs don't have the time nor the money/resources to test every single suggestion we make, so they're only likely to test the ideas we suggest that will also help them make the game more successful/improve longevity.

On a personal note: I have never intended my remarks about your statements as "personal attacks." I simply stated facts about your own statements. If you can't see it that way, it's your fault. But I [and I hope no one else] don't have anything against you as a person.

Edited by Ace4225, December 06 2012 - 11:37 AM.