67 replies to this topic

[gunhe4d]

Silk_Sk, on November 08 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

It occurs to me that the weapons in this game might not be the conventional metal tube launchers we're familiar with. If they were, how would the heat cannon make sense_ The infinite ammo thing is also suspicious. Perhaps it is not the firing of the weapon that is overheating it, but the constant magical physics breaking ammo production. Perhaps some complex sun level fusion powered shell creation process is going on in there.

This is what I came here to say, Silk beat me to it.  Everyone's assuming that this system is based on modern real world technology in a world where an entire different planet has been colonized, over populated, and abandoned.  It's a fun game mechanic and the game isn't based on reality  If you have a point to make about how a reload system would improve the game play over the overheat system, then by all means make it, but stop trying to make the game more realistic just for the sake of realism. Just have fun and stop trying to over think it.

Edited by gunhe4d, November 09 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[Dreizehn]

There are times where logic and reality should take hold, other times where gameplay just overrides everything else.

And I think this is one of those times - gameplay takes precedent. While it sure as hell doesn't quite make sense how firing my TOW generates enough heat to stop me from firing my Flak as many times. But it adds a certain dynamic and flavour to the combat. You gotta make your shots count, control your fire, make snap decisions on whether to keep pounding them with the Primary or take a risk with the Secondary.

I'd normally agree with having reloadable weapons on top of overheating weapons - but not in this case as both weapons share the same heat gauge. And overheating also stops item usage(AFAIK).

[Azdeath]

gunhe4d, on November 09 2012 - 09:37 AM, said:

Silk_Sk, on November 08 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

It occurs to me that the weapons in this game might not be the conventional metal tube launchers we're familiar with. If they were, how would the heat cannon make sense_ The infinite ammo thing is also suspicious. Perhaps it is not the firing of the weapon that is overheating it, but the constant magical physics breaking ammo production. Perhaps some complex sun level fusion powered shell creation process is going on in there.

This is what I came here to say, Silk beat me to it.  Everyone's assuming that this system is based on modern real world technology in a world where an entire different planet has been colonized, over populated, and abandoned.  It's a fun game mechanic and the game isn't based on reality  If you have a point to make about how a reload system would improve the game play over the overheat system, then by all means make it, but stop trying to make the game more realistic just for the sake of realism. Just have fun and stop trying to over think it.

realistic  just for the sake of realism kills games if we wanted pure realism we would not play video games we play in the real world

[h0B0]

Overheating is fine.
Physics have not changed since the 1990's. Most firearms generate heat and any excessive use will generate more heat. Not taking proper care of your weapons will reduce their efficiency. It would be logical for mech designers to include software int he mech that prevents it from getting damaged due to the pilots inexperience. Also you might have noticed how some upgrades reduce heat, just like in real life we have developed technology that has helped us reduce the heat generated by our weapons and that is why they are constantly more effective.

Although lore wise i could see some more wreckless pilots hacking their mechs in order to remove such a safety feature.

[G4M5T3R]

I prefer the overheating method to this game.

[chaoticr3in]

I believe there is already a reload-ish type mechanic for the secondary weapons owing to how you can't "rapidfire" the sabot rifle, hellfire missiles or TOW launcher. Don't see why you'd want a reload mechanic for the primary weapons which mostly seem to be beltfed weapons (if its not belt fed there's already a cooldown between shots, one example would be the slug rifle). Everything is already there. I really don't think a poll for which is better to this game is necessary.

Edited by chaoticr3in, December 07 2012 - 06:01 AM.

[Necro]

Were dealing with mechs here.

Perhaps you just don't see the scale but these weapons compared to a .50 cal are MASSIVE.

To me it makes sense that these things would overheat.

[oSPANNERo]

IRL for machine gun like weapons you have to deal with both reloading AND overheating:

"GSh-6-30 cannon didn't prove particularly useful in practice. It was an impressive weapon in principle, with awesome hitting power and a thunderous sound described as more "felt" than "heard", but the recoil -- about 5.5 tonnes (6.05 tons) -- still had a tendency to inflict damage on the aircraft. The rate of fire was reduced to 4,000 rounds a minute but it didn't help much. Landing lights almost always broke after firing, so on weapons training flights the lights were simply pulled out and the sockets capped off; landings at night after such flights had to be made on floodlit runways. Firing more than about 30 rounds in a burst was asking for trouble from overheating and "cooking off" of rounds in the firing chamber. The weapon was a maintenance hog, in particular being prone to corrosion."

http://www.airvector...mig23_2.html#m4

Edited by oSPANNERo, December 07 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[TheGigidy1]

I'm not saying it isn't realistic, is isn't very realistic. But this game mechanic means more skill is required, making it a more enjoyable game.

[TheGigidy1]

That last comment made no sense...All I'm saying is that the only thing overheating does is stops noobs from spamming their primary

[z121231211]

I voted to keep overheating because it be a significant change to gameplay which I don't think Hawken needs.

[Kinged]

weapon overheating is fine since it keeps overpowered people from ripping lighter mechs to shreds.

For example if i was sniping and a guy with dual grenade launchers or missile launchers and theres no overheating or infinte ammo then id be screwed. So the limiters are to help make the game a bit more fair.

(i use a light scout/sniping mech)

Edited by Kinged, December 17 2012 - 11:43 AM.

[BuDeKai]

suggesting a change as drastic as removing over heating from the game is pretty outrageous imo. im not hating on ur thread but lets pretend they wanted to. they would have to re-balance EVERYTHING. and again, i would love to never ever hear or see someone trying to draw parallels between reality and games of this nature. reality doesnt make for interesting gameplay or good balance. lets push the game further in the other direction and increase the skill cap.

Edited by BuDeKai, December 17 2012 - 12:17 PM.

[Kronguard]

Envy661, on August 23 2011 - 12:35 AM, said:

Essentially, Modern and Futuristic games, unless taking place in an alternate reality where normal physics cease to exist (Like the Mushroom Kingdom), weapon overheating should not particularly take place unless accompanied by MASSIVE weapon overuse, such as Firing a 50 Calibur Machine Gun 60,000 times continuously, and even that estimate may be low.
While the system is essentially in place to replace generalized reloading, it isn't the best solution. It's really a call to realism. Would you like a gun that performs a reload animation (realistic) or would you like a gun that overheats (Only realistic in games pre-dating the 1990s)_

Please note this method contributes whether the gun is infinite ammo or not.

Post your side of the argument.

Considering the fact that mechs are futuristic war machines,and taking into account the size difference between a human and a mech,i'd say we are not talking about calibers but inches....a whole lot of them. so as far as i am concerned,heating is okay,could some weapons overheat slower_ yes,every single one that i use,because it can be a killer

At first in early alpha i had serious issues with overheating,the reason being that i was blasting away all the time.
Overheating is better than reloading because it teaches you to think before you do,and in this game a bad decision can kill you within seconds.
I haven't had a single issue with overheating,unless i made a mistake ever since closed beta.

[deusex2]

Weapon overheating is very realistic shtick, actually. Even in real life, grab M16 and offload four standard mags at full auto, non-stop. At best case scenario the weapon's plastic will start smoking, at worse-the weapon will be set on fire or bullets might go off from extreme heat.

Heck, even 9mm gun got damaged from overheating once-it's front iron sight simply fell off.

[Gigatour]

Do a mass effect style, let users shoot endlessly,and deal with overheating and if they do overheat have heat canisters eject and possibly have the Heat limit lowered until death.

[deusex2]

Gigatour, on December 19 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

Do a mass effect style, let users shoot endlessly,and deal with overheating and if they do overheat have heat canisters eject and possibly have the Heat limit lowered until death.

You do know there's a special kind of hell for those people who try to force ME2,3 systems on other games, right_

[BuDeKai]

[Balls_Of_Steel]

Your argument is: future weapon technology shouldn't overheat faster than modern day technology because it reduces realism.  

The environment / story in Hawken suggests an apocalypse where resources are limited.  Some of the mech descriptions talk about pilots and mechanics needing to scavenge the battlefield to get parts.  It is entirely possible that the cooling technology is superior to modern day, but unavailable on the battlefield - or rebuilt so many times its lost its functionality.

[TheRuleslawyer]

I'd rather do reloads simply because I can choose when to schedule reloads a little easier than heat. I feel in control of its management. Heat not so much.