229 replies to this topic

[tamazomby]

I just played with it for a  while, I say it's a pretty fun weapon and got some interesting mechanics. I  like that it's kind of a challange to use too,  simultaneously firing the Vulcan and firing seeker shots, it  makes it satisfying when you land a nice set of rox for a frag all the while rippin' it up with a minigun.   I had some pretty fun matches with it, then there's also instances where it just doesn't work at all, using it against high level fast mechs who get right up on you and dominate you.  I can see it being a love/hate type weapon.  Sometimes, (many times) it just wasn't putting out the damage I would have hoped for,  though I don't have any weapon optimizations for the Bruiser either, so...
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Edited by tamazomby, January 18 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[Strazback]

Had to drop my 2 cents here to the pilots saying you can always dumbfire when engaged in close quarters.

On uneven terrain  or trying to shoot someone on lower levels than yourself the spread will hit your feet almost ever single time.

Trying timing a blind fire straight to a dodge so your not eating a TOW and half the shot goes off on the cover that your hoping to have protect you.

Does the hellfire need to be a mass volume of rockets_  Why not just 2 like the weapon actually looks like on your mech_  2 rockets that move much much faster_

But GL dumbfiring em your better off staying behind your team always like if they die run back to the spawn.  Stay back and just Bruise 'em to get assist points.

Brawlers the better C option and Sharpshooters the better B option play them first before grabbing something with hellfires.

[SuicideNeil]

Blind firing Hell Fires is my specialty; you just have to be smart enough not to dodge or stand behind a wall or rock when firing. It also helps if your team mates don't walk right in front of you when they can see you are firing salvo after salvo; I have htis happen to me so often it's like people are just stupid or have no spacial awareness...

[Rei]

I've had some success locking on and firing my hellfires to the skies to get a better angle on people. This weapon is still complete butt and misses people right in front of you though. There needs to be a major rework on hellfires, or else Bruiser just stays the most useless mech ever.

Even in close quarters, you have 3 years to react to someone blind firing a hellfire...

Edited by Rei, January 23 2013 - 06:15 PM.

[Karaipantsu]

I always try to launch HFM over cover, but the lock only persists for one volley, and the second just goes sailing into the atmosphere.  Annoying.

[PlagueDoctor]

The fact that the second volley is a dice roll as for if it locks or not is annoying. Plus the fact that the lock on is inconsistent, so you can't really shoot around corners because 66% of the time they just shoop into space

[Nut_Job]

This is a good thread so I would like to share my oppinion for what its worth.

I started with the CR-T obviously and did o.k. as I was a noob to multi player online games. I liked the idea of the vulcan mini gun because 2 of them saved my bacon in Iraq and lets face they are just wicked. All that said I bought the bruiser and played for a while and did o.k. before discovering you could lock on.....my fault for not reading the description completely. I have both mechs at a level 12 now and the Hellfires are a difficult weapon to use but when you land a complete shot they do devastating damage to any mech and in somewhat open areas or areas where your right on top og the enemy they can be lethal. Experienced players do often dart behind a structure and thats the end of it but as someone who knows the value of tactics first hand from real life combat experience I can tell you that if you work with team mates these can be used effectively.

These are probably the hardest weapon in the game to use but here are some tips that worked for me and I hope these can help newer players.

1. The easiest shots unfortunately is other noobs as mentioned, take your time, lock on, fire at a moment when their unaware or in the open and then follow through with the primary weapon, if your chasing the enemy to finish them off sometimes you can still use the missiles without a lock and finish them off as it may only take 1 or 2 missiles out of the 6 to destroy them. Even if they dodge the wide pattern at close range means that they will likely take 1 or 2 hits regardless of which way they go so that can sometimes be a blessing.

2. Communicate with your team (by far the most important) and have them lure the enemy out into the open or at least have them draw fire while you lock on and fire.....often this works.....Hiding on a ledge of a building can be a good equilizer as often you blend in until its too late for the enemy.....I've been taken out by a sniper with a support group several times before I was able to spot him as I was in the killbox and engaging other enemies. Teamwork makes or breaks the match. There are advantages and dis advantages to all weapons in this game, thats the point to create different play stiles and strike a balance of sorts.

3. Maps will make a difference. All maps have open areas, sometimes its best to wait quietly off radar and wait for the enemy to stumble into you getting a face full of rockets. I've managed to hide successfuly and have the enemy walk right by me and I've shot them in the back (All is fare in love and war) then finished them off in no time before they could escape.

4. Land the first shot. Often this makes a large difference as I have landed the first missile solvo and just simply went shot for shot and won because of there immense damage.

5. Sniping. Goes with #2. you'll notice on every map that there are spots the enemy likes to take ( A bridge, a rooftop, ect...) in an effort to snipe on your guys, this is a double edged sword as it means that while they are looking down to pick off your unsuspecting guys you can manover into a position behind them at a distance where you can get them while they retreat around the structure. Pick that spot and get there quietly (Don't boost all the way there if you can help it) then when they enemy gets there radio your team and warn them but also get them to engage that possition if possibly as your team softens them up from below in the front they will retreat arround the structure to heal where you will have a clean shot and if ready you can usually kill them before they spot you and move out. Getting your enemy to do what you want them to do is great advantage.

6. Opposite from #5 is support your team. If you don't mind not getting a lot of kills you can have your team amass at an area and wait for the enemy to get nearby, take a position so that when you lock on and fire your hellfires the enemy will have to dart right into your guys. If you hit them at all before your guys kill them you will get xp from the assist. This is hard to do and is easier in curtain maps. Reversely you can get your guys to drive them to you.

7. The flying mech, sometimes in a fire fight when your chasing or being chased and your in mid flight you can fire the missiles at an enemy and a few will hit no matter which way he goes. (If this fails try dropping or throwing rocks at them, You would be amazed how effective it was in Iraq)

8. Large groups, if you fire your missiles at a large group they are bound to hit 1 or 2 of them.

Lastly the kill box. If you communicate with your team and get them to take up positions where they can come around a corner quickly, jump over a rock, hop off a ledge, or rooftop than you can use a teamate or yourself as bait and lure them in. As soon as you engage they are in an open and controlled area perfect for your hellfires.

Its a lot and not always possible but these are some first hand suggestions I can make, I hope they help.

Nut Job (Former U.S. Army, 2 tours to Iraq)

[Beemann]

It's not so much that the bruiser weapons are hard to use themselves, but rather that the bruiser is a class that doesn't scale well with player skill (particularly when it comes to the Hellfires)
The TOW and GL go where you aim them, and explode when you detonate them. They're much more reliable and can be used in trickier situations as the player gets better, while simultaneously hitting more and more direct hits (more damage). Neither of these is really possible with the hellfires, as better aim is still gimped by randomly firing rockets

[Karaipantsu]

PlagueDoctor, on January 24 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

shoop into space

[RentAKnight]

Unless every single hellfire rocket of the barrage hits you are left feeling severely underpowered.  Getting even half of them to hit at CQC is near impossible.  The result is that the rocketeer gets wrecked at CQC.

http://www.youtube.c...wH50KNE#t=2m42s

The rocketeer dumbfires right where I am going to be, I don't know how he could have played it any differently.

I get hit by maybe 4 or 5 of the hellfires.  They did 69 damage.

[Gree]

Most people that hate the hellfire don't have much skill in combat, they just want a simple aim-fire gun like the tow or the gren launcher. I'm not a real fan of it, but using it it's not a problem for me.

Edited by Gree, January 24 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[PlagueDoctor]

uh

[Timber_Wolf]

Gree, on January 24 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Most people that hate the hellfire don't have much skill in combat, they just want a simple aim-fire gun like the tow or the gren launcher. I'm not a real fan of it, but using it it's not a problem for me.

lolwut
You realize the hellfire is the easiest to use, right_
And that the TOW and GL have a much higher skill ceiling and skill floor_
And you realize this is the biggest problem with hellfire, right_

[Gree]

Timber_Wolf, on January 24 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Gree, on January 24 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Most people that hate the hellfire don't have much skill in combat, they just want a simple aim-fire gun like the tow or the gren launcher. I'm not a real fan of it, but using it it's not a problem for me.

lolwut
You realize the hellfire is the easiest to use, right_
And that the TOW and GL have a much higher skill ceiling and skill floor_
And you realize this is the biggest problem with hellfire, right_

Maybe for you, but not for me. I guess I've always been good with the tow and gren launcher(I make less mistakes with them)

[Beemann]

Gree, on January 24 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Maybe for you, but not for me. I guess I've always been good with the tow and gren launcher(I make less mistakes with them)

I'm willing to bet that most of your "mistakes" are a result of lock-on breaking or RNG'd shots hitting something other than where you've aimed them

[necroq]

Gree, on January 24 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Timber_Wolf, on January 24 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Gree, on January 24 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Most people that hate the hellfire don't have much skill in combat, they just want a simple aim-fire gun like the tow or the gren launcher. I'm not a real fan of it, but using it it's not a problem for me.

lolwut
You realize the hellfire is the easiest to use, right_
And that the TOW and GL have a much higher skill ceiling and skill floor_
And you realize this is the biggest problem with hellfire, right_

Maybe for you, but not for me. I guess I've always been good with the tow and gren launcher(I make less mistakes with them)

in team battles its very easy and powerful.
but in 1v1 combat against 1 sec dodgers it is very tricky. weapon is good and as u said it require much more skill then tow detonation faceroll.

[ShadowWarg]

necroq, on January 24 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

Gree, on January 24 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Timber_Wolf, on January 24 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Gree, on January 24 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Most people that hate the hellfire don't have much skill in combat, they just want a simple aim-fire gun like the tow or the gren launcher. I'm not a real fan of it, but using it it's not a problem for me.

lolwut
You realize the hellfire is the easiest to use, right_
And that the TOW and GL have a much higher skill ceiling and skill floor_
And you realize this is the biggest problem with hellfire, right_

Maybe for you, but not for me. I guess I've always been good with the tow and gren launcher(I make less mistakes with them)

in team battles its very easy and powerful.
but in 1v1 combat against 1 sec dodgers it is very tricky. weapon is good and as u said it require much more skill then tow detonation faceroll.

Using the Hell Fire is more about prediction rather than  "lock-on and shoot" or "aim and dumb fire". Predicting where your opponent moves (with or without having a lock) and firing ahead of them is one of the best ways to make sure that most of the missile hit, as well as taking advantage of the delay time before they actually fire to ark them.

This sounds simple (and I'm sure others have suggested the same things THOUSANDS of times before) but like the guys above said, it takes more skill to use them than what it seems in order to maximize its effectiveness and get a decent amount pf points. (case in point: lvl 25 Bruisers and Rocketeers that score 2500 or 3000+ points)

On a side note the only thing I think I would like to see changed is a faster reload speed by a small amount.

Edited by ShadowWarg, January 24 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[Sabata]

I have a solution.

Bruiser and Rocketeer should have TOW as their primary and Hellfires secondary (or vice versa).

Spoiler

Joking.

Spoiler

sort of

Edited by Sabata, January 24 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[Noin]

Make them not home until you release the launch button.  They continue on a straight path toward where the reticule was pointing when fired.  When the launch button is released start the homing process.  Pilot skill them becomes valuable.

Allow lock attempts while reloading. Currently this is suffered as a loss of rate of fire.  Reload =5 seconds, lockon =2 seconds.  Plus the fire delay is a rate of fire penalty.  

Hold the lock for slightly longer if a full lock has been achieved.  This would allow the skilled pilot to adjust the angle of entry for the homing more.  .5 to 1 second more would work.  

Allow for a bunch off smaller tweaks via optimizations.  Decrease in homing radius, speed of projectile, launch delay, distance to convergence, lock duration, time to acquire lock, and i am sure i missed some.

Edited by Noin, January 24 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[nemonzo]

What exactly happened at HFMs after this patch_ It seems I cant lock on distant targets and sometimes on mid ones also. Before the patch I never had any of these issues.