213 replies to this topic

[TwiceDead]

Firaphex, on December 25 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

Am i the only one that's NOT concerned with the EMP_
I've been hit with it a quite a few times but honestly i don't really care that much. All it means is that i have to switch from attack to defense/dodging for a short period and in the end i still feel i have a decent chance of walking away alive from the encounter.

I've also begun using it myself and find that it's only really good in a few scenarios like when fighting multiple enemies or when your target has no/little chance of escaping or evading. The best use i've found for it is as a kind of a last resort when i'm about to overheat or low on armor and need a few seconds to correct this before engaging in another fight. So to me the EMP is situational.

This means it has to be timed and used correctly to be effective and while getting hit can get you killed, it is rare for it to be unavoidable. So basically it's down to pilot skill just as it is with most things. I mean it really has no effect if you're good enough not to get hit, and that should be a priority no matter if you are hit with an EMP or not.

This post was so full of BS i'm not even going to bother explaining it when it has been so many times before...

[Sylhiri]

EMP might not effect pub games much but it dramatically effects high level play in which every second counts. If optimizations can effect the outcome of a fight between highly skilled players what do you think a 7 second period of near no defense would be like_

On the thought of countermeasures, if you need to keep buying expendable items, that only works once per life, to reduce the effects of a one time bought item that is only limited by a cooldown so that going against an such an item is balanced, something is severely wrong.

Also, why the hell doesn't EMP's work like HE Charges.

[KaszaWspraju]

Quote

On the thought of countermeasures, if you need to keep buying expendable items, that only works once per life, to reduce the effects of a one time bought item that is only limited by a cooldown so that going against an such an item is balanced, something is severely wrong.

THIS !

[Firaphex]

TwiceDead, on December 25 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

Firaphex, on December 25 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

Am i the only one that's NOT concerned with the EMP_
I've been hit with it a quite a few times but honestly i don't really care that much. All it means is that i have to switch from attack to defense/dodging for a short period and in the end i still feel i have a decent chance of walking away alive from the encounter.

I've also begun using it myself and find that it's only really good in a few scenarios like when fighting multiple enemies or when your target has no/little chance of escaping or evading. The best use i've found for it is as a kind of a last resort when i'm about to overheat or low on armor and need a few seconds to correct this before engaging in another fight. So to me the EMP is situational.

This means it has to be timed and used correctly to be effective and while getting hit can get you killed, it is rare for it to be unavoidable. So basically it's down to pilot skill just as it is with most things. I mean it really has no effect if you're good enough not to get hit, and that should be a priority no matter if you are hit with an EMP or not.

This post was so full of BS i'm not even going to bother explaining it when it has been so many times before...

If you don't want to answer, you shouldn't bother with the answer at all.
And I'm just calling it as i see it, and i'm not bothered by EMPs.

If i get blown up then i get blown up and there is no point getting emotional about it. All that means is that i have to get up, try again and hopefully be better at it next time. I can see how some have a problem with them, but if anything i would say the fix would be making countermeasures cheaper.

Edited by Firaphex, December 25 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[Karaipantsu]

Ran into my first semi-coordinated team tonite with multiple EMPs.  NOW I can get on the bandwagon and call them poorly designed.  Goddamn, 14-21 seconds of downtime is an eternity in this game.

[DESMO]

Apart from the balance issues, I feel that EMP's should remain in the game if it is part of the creators' vision.  There was another long-winded thread about EMP's (which I can't seem to find) where AJK had an excellent short list to fix the EMP and keep it in game.  I'm sure eventually there will be options to start games with selectable options like "No EMP", so it shouldn't be an issue for eventual tournament play.  However, for public games I hope the devs will continue to make decisions based on their vision of the Hawken universe.  It is their creativity that enticed me to Hawken in the first place, and is the legacy that will remain once everyone has moved on to other games.

EMP's don't seem to be used as much in public games (siege mode) - where many prefer turrets that auto-target and last more than 7 seconds. EMP's used constantly in TDM and burns through countermeasures like crazy, if equipped: I'd rather use HC elsewhere until I've bought everything in the garage.  Countermeasures more meaningful in siege and missle assault modes, where many prefer turrets to EMP.  However, if  you're a player that is constantly assaulting or ambushing as opposed to holding territory or pew-pewing: EMP is essential equipment.  You will kill something assuming you're not going in 1v5 or something crazy.

EMP duration could be as little as 2 seconds; it will still serve its intended effect.   I haven't witnessed team EMP chaining, but it sounds pretty awesomely terrifying (on the receiving end) - I only wish there could be such teamwork in a public game..  Regardless, EMP effects should probably not stack during the down-time/recovery-time.

Edited by DESMO, December 25 2012 - 06:41 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Karaipantsu, on December 25 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Ran into my first semi-coordinated team tonite with multiple EMPs.  NOW I can get on the bandwagon and call them poorly designed.  Goddamn, 14-21 seconds of downtime is an eternity in this game.

Welcome to every match I play.

[Taerkasten]

Hmmm, emp, well what i'll can say is than the disabler need alot of tweak, at now as some post up says it's broken, his effect takes too much time, if you are in a tight corridor attacked by whatever other type and hit by emp, death sure, in the meantime players should make a list of empers to have more priority against ocasional empers or a tactic more aggresive for casual empers.

It's funny but at the same time it's tedious.

Edited by Taerkasten, December 25 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[Karaipantsu]

I'd been suggested before that EMP should only take down your HUD, and I think that's a good way to go. No radar and no reticule seems like an acceptable level of power for a 7 second+ disablement.

With this system, you're still in the fight if you're clever enough, but you're certainly reduced in your fighting capacity.

Edited by Karaipantsu, December 25 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[PlagueDoctor]

Maybe shutting off secondary weapon abilities along with losing hud could be neat as well. Dunno.

[CnEY]

It would probably be reasonable if the effect time were halved, though the idea of EMP-stacking certainly does sound terribly lame.  But basically right now it comes off looking like a blatant crutch used by people who lack the skill to get the job done otherwise.

Unfortunately I fear that some people buy EMP just to fight fire with fire, which just makes the situation that much worse.  Personally I refuse to stoop to that level, so I will continue to choose to spend my own HC elsewhere and earn my kills legitimately.

(Admittedly, in the rare occasion where someone *still* fails to kill me despite a direct EMP hit, it's pretty goddamned hilarious.)

[Sicarius_X]

I hate counter measures, I tend to dodge emp's at most ranges but point blank, and he emp'd himself. I do kick myself for getting hit by it, but it is still a rather imba item. I'm content to see what the dev's change it to, until then I won't gripe about it

[GN010]

Managed to escape EMP few times(1~3 out of 30+ match).

[Gorillahustle]

I can agree with shortening the duration to maybe 3.5 - 4.5secs (it is too long as is) and to have the range be true to visual effect.
I can also agree to have a temp immunity to it once hit. 1.5-2mins.
I use it as an oh fuzzy bunny messure(often willingly taking a hit myself just to get away) and when i meet and flank groups. I also use it for team play situations to help my team advance or to make people give up postitions. It should not be a "I Win Ability"
But to remove as a scout i can not support.

Edited by Gorillahustle, December 26 2012 - 02:34 AM.

[Jarkon]

Adding skill to the game and keeping a high skill cap is great for competitive gaming, but having over powered abilities that good players can auto win with is another. I don't know if it should be nerfed or not because I'm still new, but all I can say is I hope the Dev's actually play the game and not just read all the haters saying NERF THIS NERF THAT. Skill is good, simplicity is good, dumbed down gameplay made easy is bad. Please balance correctly.

[Rosengren]

Gorillahustle, on December 26 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

I can agree with shortening the duration to maybe 3.5 - 4.5secs (it is too long as is) and to have the range be true to visual effect..

It used to last for three seconds. It was still the best item. It's basically a way to instantly remove one opponent from the fight or a way of gaining effective invulnerability depending on just how many people you're facing. The fundamental concept is overpowered and unfun to the degree that it's pointless adding complicated details like immunity to it. Either remove it or stop it from disabling your weaponry. It already shuts your entire HUD down so you have no information from your radar, your heat levels, your fuel levels, your armour left etc etc. I don't know if you can still call for help or mark enemies. But anyway, that's disruption enough for the simple press of a button.

[The_Silencer]

The truth is that I've not seen many pilots using EMPs during these last days.

[Firaphex]

Karaipantsu, on December 25 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

I'd been suggested before that EMP should only take down your HUD, and I think that's a good way to go. No radar and no reticule seems like an acceptable level of power for a 7 second+ disablement.

With this system, you're still in the fight if you're clever enough, but you're certainly reduced in your fighting capacity.

How would you have to be clever enough_
Heat you can se by the color of your weapons, and damage you can see be the amount of damage to the cockpit. Aim is always in the center of the screen so being clever isn't really needed as long as you have eyes. The only real effect would be no radar. Yes, the HUD is an exact readout of your mech systems, but it does not take much to be almost as accurate using the graphical effects instead.

[Karaipantsu]

A lot of people (myself included, especially in my Zerker) ride the ragged edge of Overheat pretty often, and there isn't a lot of difference between "red" and "off" at that point.  Without the HUD, I'd have trouble remaining active near the limit of heat.  And the "center of the screen" is slightly nebulous for most people who don't tape off their hitbox like Gears of War shotty vets without the reticule to make it very specific.  It's not hard to aim without it, but it's still harder than if it was up, especially with slow firing weapons like the TOW and Slug.  Flak, not so much.

And "almost" was the entire point.  EMP currently feels like a gigantic punishment, whereas what I suggested is merely a detriment to normal activity, bringing its power down significantly while still keeping its core idea alive.  So, what are you arguing for_

[Gunmoku]

I don't think the EMP is overpowered, especially if you use the EMP countermeasure.  Anyone who disagrees should read below.

However, there are some issues I think regarding its uses:

- I think they need to restrict its equip ability to only the "midget" mechs (Berserker, Infiltrator, Scout) and not to the bigger, harder-hitting mechs.  Why_  Usually the smaller mechs have to deal with getting knocked around by explosions and larger caliber guns, which sometimes immediately gives the advantage to the bigger mech.  Giving the smaller mechs that short duration of weapon lockout does present opportunity to either retreat or finish off a "Fatty" if they're fighting back.

- If not restricting its use to the midgets, shorten the duration slightly.  The lockout, if you're caught without a countermeasure, is a bit long and can completely swing favor to the EMP's user.  This can be pretty annoying if the EMP's user team stacks the item and can chain-lockout.  So either there needs to be a diminishing return of EMP lockout on consecutive hits for so many seconds (maybe even up to 2 minutes_) so people don't get shafted by EMP spammers.

- Make the blast radius have an increasing level of lockout depending on where the blast hits the mech.  Yes, this is probably very complicated to implement, but it could work.  For example, if you get hit by the "invisible bubble" on the outer edge of the blast, you lose your HUD for 3 seconds.  If you get hit by the outer edge of the green bubble, you lose your HUD and secondary weapon for 3-5 seconds (RNG'ed).  And if you get hit by the whole blast, i.e the dark-green bubble in the center, then the lockout would be the same as it is now.  This way you don't get people using the "Quake trick" by aiming at someone's feet and you would reward accuracy more so than you do now, since the EMP bullet is about the same speed as a rocket.

Edited by Gunmoku, December 26 2012 - 10:49 AM.