68 replies to this topic

[Rosengren]

I think part of the problem is the way that the bullet hoses work. I mean, all you need to do to use the AR and the SMC is hold a button down and sweep the reticle across your enemies. If you want to use them well you have to track and pace yourself so you don't overheat but they're nothing like the flak cannon or any of the projectiles. The vulcan at least has short range, spin-up and high heat buildup to consider.

[Ruzhyo]

What if you just started the game with 7000 credits and no mech_ Let people choose which style of play they'd like from the start. Save TV Mech for the tutorial.

[Silk_Sk]

Ruzhyo, on December 24 2012 - 07:15 AM, said:

What if you just started the game with 7000 credits and no mech_ Let people choose which style of play they'd like from the start. Save TV Mech for the tutorial.

Because then they'd pick Sharpshooter or Rocketteer and lose a piece of their humanity to unbridled rage.

[absolofdoom]

I think the C-RT is a great starting point and balanced just fine. TOWs are easier to dodge than nades anyway if you ask me, particularly when a newbie is firing it.

[Nebulous_Fer]

absolofdoom, on December 24 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

I think the C-RT is a great starting point and balanced just fine. TOWs are easier to dodge than nades anyway if you ask me, particularly when a newbie is firing it.

This. This is the post that has made the most sense in this entire thread. When a rookie uses a TOW, it's so blatantly obvious that their demise is just mere seconds away. It's easy to spot a new player with it. The TOW is a perfectly acceptable starting off point and despite everyone having it, it has not affected me in a way where I feel the need there has to be some changes to the game for it. just learn to dodge them.

[Tyme]

I'm not opposed to the 'remove the starter mech' idea.

I wanted to play Sharshooter from when I started playing (And I didn't know about the 6k credit code either...) So I played, and played. And Normally, was sitting in the top 3 with just my recruit. I went 20 + kills to only a death or two in some matches.

Then I could finally aford my Sharpshooter.

I was in the bottom two or maybe slightly better for the first 8 levels. And yeah, it was frustrating to go from sitting pretty every game, to being that guy the rest of the team is yelling at.

But now, my Sharpshooter is a Level 20 Badass, and I'm back to where I was. Almost a 2:1 KD most games, sometimes better, sometimes a little worse.

Thing is, I could jump back on my Recruit, and do the exact same thing.

So I understand where the OP is coming from here, there is no REAL need to switch Mechs, knowing what it is I know now.

But, then again, on the other hand, is that such a bad thing_ I mean, if someone really loves that Recruit, why MAKE him (Or her, I'm not a sexist) part with it_ If that's the style he wants to play, let'm have it. Plus, after a while, I'm sure from the DEV's perspective, it'll probably make someone buy and subsequently spend the meteor credits to get rid of that god-awful head unit.

So, in short, it works both ways. New people need the unit to be able to compete, but there could be some ways to drive them towards other Mechs. I don't think the TOW launcher should be the driving force though.

...hooray....

Edited by Tyme, December 31 2012 - 06:41 PM.

[Sylhiri]

I just find it odd that your "Brand New" internals are still brand new at level 25. Rookies must have some kind of manufacturer connection to swap parts out so their internals are always brand new or something.

[Fraynk]

"Namely, there's no reason not to use anything but the TOW even if there are more powerful options that take more skill to pull off."

This point answers itself.  The TOW, while extremely effective, puts you at a potential skill/viability plateau.  Skilled players will experiment with other weapon loadouts and specialize - even more skilled teams will develop a hierarchy of roles - TOW, Sniper, Hellfire, and coordinate to cover just about every situation.

[RespawningJesus]

I think they should just nerf the internals on the CR-T.  Still have it so that they have no negative trade-off, but make the effect have a lower percentage.  Have the SMG be the starter weapon, and then unlock the AR at level 7.

After that, I would say that the CR-T would be balanced for newer players to have some level of power in their hands, but not too much so that they could attain a better understanding of how the game works.

[Patch101]

I think with something like the Cr-t its important that it be easy to use, and powerfull enough to enjoy as a first time user (hooking someone to the game is important, first impressions count) However, I do agree as a Starting mech is should be somewhat limited to the other mechs. Perhaps making it harder to xp up the Cr-t is the answer to limiting it vs the other mech's.

I also agree tht the smg should be the starting weapon (right now)

Edited by Patch101, December 31 2012 - 10:38 PM.

[necroq]

well i think its good how it is.
new players get already best mech with best weapons (ar all the day). other mechs just buff your playstyle. if u take tow away and give hellfire instead newbies will have it much harder and it will be unfair against skilled players.

[Karaipantsu]

RespawningJesus, on December 31 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

I think they should just nerf the internals on the CR-T.  Still have it so that they have no negative trade-off, but make the effect have a lower percentage.  Have the SMG be the starter weapon, and then unlock the AR at level 7.

Agreed.  Except the XP one.  Leave that alone.  I really like that one.  

[AsianJoyKiller]

Karaipantsu, on December 31 2012 - 11:36 PM, said:

RespawningJesus, on December 31 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

I think they should just nerf the internals on the CR-T.  Still have it so that they have no negative trade-off, but make the effect have a lower percentage.  Have the SMG be the starter weapon, and then unlock the AR at level 7.

Agreed.  Except the XP one.  Leave that alone.  I really like that one.  

I'll jump on that bandwagon.
Lower returns for no negatives sounds fine. Though the XP Internal is unique, and I think gives a new player a decent chance to level up at least one mech at a reasonable pace (without boosters) as is.

[Adreni]

Give the CR-T a grenade launcher in place of the TOW. It's a good, solid reflection of a proven mechanic: The Noob Tube. That GL is rewarding ENOUGH for an early player, but not overly so, thus driving them to learn better tactics than spamming grenades.

[Mewvg]

Adreni, on January 01 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Give the CR-T a grenade launcher in place of the TOW. It's a good, solid reflection of a proven mechanic: The Noob Tube. That GL is rewarding ENOUGH for an early player, but not overly so, thus driving them to learn better tactics than spamming grenades.

Other games have used RPGs as their noob tube and worked just fine.

[deusex2]

Why not create another rocket launcher_ Something that hits harder than TOW on direct hit, has wider splash radius with damage degrading the further the target is from the epicenter and simply remove the ability to detonate it_ Give that one to Brawler and Assault to reward skillful use of it and TOW spam problem solved.

At the same time with that new weapon, you can also decrease the splash damage of TOW. That way it'll remain easy-to-use weapon, but it'll also create and encourage learning curve for TOW.

[deusex2]

Mewvg, on January 01 2013 - 03:10 AM, said:

Adreni, on January 01 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Give the CR-T a grenade launcher in place of the TOW. It's a good, solid reflection of a proven mechanic: The Noob Tube. That GL is rewarding ENOUGH for an early player, but not overly so, thus driving them to learn better tactics than spamming grenades.

Other games have used RPGs as their noob tube and worked just fine.

Well that's the thing-Hawken is not yur average fps game, ontop of that, half of available mechs are forced to use TOW. Such design makes me think that TOW isn't supposed to be Hawken's "noon stick" and yet at the same time it is. This is why there needs to be a change and there are few viable options, IMHO.

1)Give Fred GL instead of TOW, it's easy to learn, hard to master weapon, that only two regular mechs have access to. Thing is, there are still plenty of mechs stuck using TOW. So while it encourages new players to move on and pick up a different mech, such solution does not really solves TOW spamming issues.

2)Nerf Fred and it's internals. This will take away a fighting chance from newbies and will cause most of them to rage quit.

3)Nerf TOW. This one's simply silly, because by itself one TOW is not op and there are too many mechs that are stuck with TOW.

4)Create new secondary weapon that rewards skillful playstyle and spread it among skill-reliant mechs. This alone cannot solve TOW spamming issue, because there still is no reason to use it over less skill reliant Fred. Which brings me to

5)Modify TOW to add learning curve to it, make it so new players are encouraged to play smart. That way, when they'll encounter weapon that will reward skillful playstyle even more than TOW, they'll want to move on from Fred to other mechs.

[Karaipantsu]

TOW is pretty OP, yo.  It's DPS may not be all that great, but its burst is stunning, it's on far too many frames, and it's not really hard to use. It does need a damage or at least a splash nerf.

[The_Silencer]

Don't touch the CR-T Recruit.

Well, if the devs find out ways to improve then go ahead. If not then let's just say that the amount of new players getting into this game and/or community could considerably lose some of its precious weight.

Edited by The_Silencer, January 01 2013 - 10:21 AM.

[MajorMojo]

I think the TOW should remain on the CRT.  The rookie internals are fine to start but you should lose them at some level to give players incentive to switch to another mech.