68 replies to this topic

[Silk_Sk]

MajorMojo, on January 01 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

I think the TOW should remain on the CRT.  The rookie internals are fine to start but you should lose them at some level to give players incentive to switch to another mech.

There's a suggestion I'm surprised I haven't heard before. As long as the game makes it clear the those internals are only temporary, it could make a great deal of difference in making buying new mechs an incentive. However, the price of internals must go down.

[RespawningJesus]

MajorMojo, on January 01 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

I think the TOW should remain on the CRT.  The rookie internals are fine to start but you should lose them at some level to give players incentive to switch to another mech.

I was thinking the same thing as you,  but I still think the new internals should just stay, since this is supposed to be a mech made for new players.   If you give them powerful internals and then take them away,  it kinda disrupts the feel of the mech,  assuming that you want the internals to remain the same.

[Sylhiri]

RespawningJesus, on January 01 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

I was thinking the same thing as you,  but I still think the new internals should just stay, since this is supposed to be a mech made for new players.   If you give them powerful internals and then take them away,  it kinda disrupts the feel of the mech,  assuming that you want the internals to remain the same.

But once you get to level 20 or so your not really a new player anymore. You can ease them off by replacing them with internals of lower values until you can drop them entirely.

[RespawningJesus]

Sylhiri, on January 01 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

RespawningJesus, on January 01 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

I was thinking the same thing as you,  but I still think the new internals should just stay, since this is supposed to be a mech made for new players.   If you give them powerful internals and then take them away,  it kinda disrupts the feel of the mech,  assuming that you want the internals to remain the same.

But once you get to level 20 or so your not really a new player anymore. You can ease them off by replacing them with internals of lower values until you can drop them entirely.

True, but I was saying if you were to keep the internals the way they are now,  and then take them away,  people who are already used to having such powerful internals will have to readjust  and they will be missed.  On the other hand, if you were to nerf the CR-T internals,  and then remove them after a certain level, then they would give CR-T a slight advantage over the rest of the mechs.

It can also be argued that the CR-T would have no purpose if you were to remove it's internals,  since it would just be another Assault mech at that point.  This would then make people question the point of the Assault mech,  since it would be exactly like the CR-T,  but it would take longer to level up.  No one would want to purchase the Assault mech when they already have one.   (Then again,  the Assault Mech needs to be re-imagined anyways,  since it is obsolete as of now.)

Edited by RespawningJesus, January 01 2013 - 05:06 PM.

[RiseAgainst]

How about buff the other secondary weapons so they compete with the TOW_ I mean you feel that the other secondary weapons leave you at a disadvantage but say it's not about balancing the TOW.

[Frouste]

To settle this arguement...

Halo3 had an issue in its multiplayer, it wasn't dual-wielding, I hadn't seen enough of that to warrant that going away.
It was that if you were going to get good, you had to grab the Battle Rifle or a Carbine.  Anyone who couldn't often were met with defeat.

This game doesn't have one-shot kills, and is a test of skill (and overall teamwork and strategy) over your opponents.
The TOW is simplified power, you're not going to be able to break it down further.  I find myself using SMCs often, and I need the TOW to supplement my damage dealing.  and looking back at Halo3, If everyone has the premier "MLG standard," (it sounds arrogant to say that out loud, even if you don't mean to.) the game changes.  I may have the CR-T in my inventory, but you couldn't contemplate what may occur if newcomers are kept down because they couldn't use the AR/TOW combo.  That combo allows players to enjoy the game without having to really worry about getting that good primary or that one great mech that everyone else is using.  It nullifies the elitist attitudes and forces people to take fresh players seriously, as they could actually be good from the start.

Balance is something to keep an eye on, but not at the cost of making it difficult for newcomers to get into the game; id est, none of the "lololololol G7F0 N3wb!!!!1  I'm MLG"  and similar attitudes should be allowed to incubate in this game's community as a result of equipment.

[Keiichi81]

Can I just point out something obvious_ Hawken already has a seriously steep learning curve that sees an awful lot of rookies getting stomped by veterans only to leave in a huff amid proclamations of it being P2W. Do we really want to make things even harder for them by giving the starting mech that they'll probably be using for a good 5-6 hours of game time a frustrating and even more difficult loadout_

[defekt]

I applaud ADH’s decision to give new players the best mech in the game; it was entirely the right thing to do for a whole host of positively reinforcing reasons that I’m sure we are largely already aware.  If I could change one thing about the CR-T it would be that the ‘Rookie’ internals were deactivated in some manner after a certain progression point is reached rather than remaining forever useful.

For example, and keeping in mind that the Assault mech is completely redundant under the current mechanism, once a pilot reaches CR-T Lvl25 the training wheels come off and the pilot is presented with a choice:

i) keep the Lvl25 CR-T but lose all of the ‘Rookie’ internals;

ii) part-exchange the LvL25 CR-T for a Lvl15 Assault that comes with a free set of regular internals of your choice.

---

The issue with the TOW is a separate and longstanding point of debate.  The devs have mentioned before that they are fond of the idea of having a ‘n00btube’ weapon in the game, and the current incarnation of the TOW certainly fits into this category.  The problem, however, is that the weapon is so prevalent, so much better than all of the other options, that it is contributing in no small part to the overall homogenisation of the game; it is not merely happenstance that the vast majority of the most viable mechs are all armed with a TOW.  (Worse, mech concepts like the Scout not only dominate the burst damage game but also easily out perform the Infiltrator at what is arguably the Infiltrator’s raison d'être.)  

There’s nothing wrong, per sé, with the notion of having a n00btube in a game but when even the skilled players can’t be prised away from the thing one must take a step back and reassess whether or not the reward for mastering the other Secondary weapons is high enough.

[Fantus_Longhorn]

defekt, on February 15 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

There’s nothing wrong, per sé, with the notion of having a n00btube in a game but when even the skilled players can’t be prised away from the thing one must take a step back and reassess whether or not the reward for mastering the other Secondary weapons is high enough.

I agree entirely with the above statement. There is no incentive to move away from the TOW, short of wanting a different mech which doesn't have it. I think this is where something like a 'side-grade' system could really help. The TOW needs to remain effective for new players but there needs to be another function which has a higher skill to reward ratio.

Perhaps it should be a dumb-fire rocket with a huge splash. However, you could swap this to have the detonation feature back but with a massively reduced splash.