87 replies to this topic

[Beemann]

HEAT Gren and Flak Brawler have always been pretty decent in CQC fights (stunlock woes aside). The only problem is that right now a particularly fast human could outrun the C mechs

[Juodvarnis]

Goddamnit! I can't even "Like" your posts...
You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

Edited by Juodvarnis, January 06 2013 - 08:18 AM.

[Akaon]

Juodvarnis, on January 06 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Akaon, on January 06 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

defekt, on January 06 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

Juodvarnis, on January 06 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

defekt, on January 06 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

Perhaps there is a case to be made for increasing the health gap between the three chassis from 150 > 175 (500|650|800 > 500|675|850).

I'm sorry what_ The health is already 500/675/850.

Christ.  That's what I get for posting with a hangover.  Sorry.

175 > 200.

EDIT:  Now that I see the numbers from that, maybe not after all.  Yeah, fuzzy bunny that.  Just fix the bugs that urinate all over the C-classes, and give them an ability that's relevant, and we're golden.  

God, i'd be happy to see those bugs fixed, they make quite an impact on C mechs. Even with that though, i doubt that will even the C mechs out.... But it'll be a start at least. Also, i don't think the abilities will matter all that much, i barely use them when i play A mechs, even then they feel far superior to C mechs.

Personally, i think a small increase on the cooldown of dodging in general might have some interesting results, partially in making health matter more. (btw, is the cooldown on dodging the same for all mechs_)

It's not the same, by default
A class dodge cooldown is 1.25 sec.
B class dodge cooldown is 1.50 sec.
C class dodge cooldown is 1.75 sec.
Atleast i think it is

Hmm, had a feeling that they had lower cooldowns yeah. Thanks for the info!

Just a thought, but wouldn't C mechs function well, while still being balanced, if all mechs had roughly the same movement speed_ (just small differences, but not talking about boosting speed). Keeping the large hitboxes and higher dodge cooldowns. They'd still be slow when moving large distances, but at least they'd have some mobility in a fight. Main thing to increase would be the acceleration, in that case.

What are your thoughts on something like that_

[Juodvarnis]

Don't ask for my thoughts, cause they'll be horribly biased. Ask someone who's capable of critical and objective thinking like AJK or Beemann. Just sayin'

[Akaon]

Juodvarnis, on January 06 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Don't ask for my thoughts, cause they'll be horribly biased. Ask someone who's capable of critical and objective thinking like AJK or Beemann. Just sayin'

Question was not limited to you .

[Juodvarnis]

Akaon, on January 06 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Juodvarnis, on January 06 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Don't ask for my thoughts, cause they'll be horribly biased. Ask someone who's capable of critical and objective thinking like AJK or Beemann. Just sayin'

Question was not limited to you .

Don't mind me, I'm rather self-centric and always assume people are talking to me.

[Akaon]

Juodvarnis, on January 06 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Akaon, on January 06 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Juodvarnis, on January 06 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Don't ask for my thoughts, cause they'll be horribly biased. Ask someone who's capable of critical and objective thinking like AJK or Beemann. Just sayin'

Question was not limited to you .

Don't mind me, I'm rather self-centric and always assume people are talking to me.

People who play big mechs have a big ego ^^.

[Juodvarnis]

Akaon, on January 06 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Juodvarnis, on January 06 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Akaon, on January 06 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Juodvarnis, on January 06 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Don't ask for my thoughts, cause they'll be horribly biased. Ask someone who's capable of critical and objective thinking like AJK or Beemann. Just sayin'

Question was not limited to you .

Don't mind me, I'm rather self-centric and always assume people are talking to me.

People who play big mechs have a big ego ^^.

Or feel horribly insecure like me

Ehm: Back to topic
C-class mechs should be buffed, especially Rocketeers

Edited by Juodvarnis, January 06 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[Akaon]

Juodvarnis, on January 06 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

Akaon, on January 06 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Juodvarnis, on January 06 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Akaon, on January 06 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

Juodvarnis, on January 06 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Don't ask for my thoughts, cause they'll be horribly biased. Ask someone who's capable of critical and objective thinking like AJK or Beemann. Just sayin'

Question was not limited to you .

Don't mind me, I'm rather self-centric and always assume people are talking to me.

People who play big mechs have a big ego ^^.

Or feel horribly insecure like me

Ehm: Back to topic
C-class mechs should be buffed, especially Rocketeers

Actually thinking about it, i've NEVER seen anyone play a good rocketeer ingame, other than myself. Not much of an argument, of course, but it's kinda shocking.

(Not that you see many at all)

[Beemann]

Rocketeers have several issues
1st and foremost, Hellfires are bad. They're really only good for stunlocking and that's map-dependent. The Hellfires have a very low skill floor, but the skill ceiling isn't much higher than that
2nd your primary options are the EOC and the Seekers, the latter having the same issues as the Hellfires, and the former requiring a lot of skill to use effectivelly
3rd C mechs are way too slow and turret mode is bad

It's not surprising that they're so underutilized

[Juodvarnis]

I just wish the devs would give them some sort of hitscan automatic gun a SMC or AR, maybe the Vulcan. Because they really need at least one gun that would be reliable, because neither EOC nor Seekers are very reliable, mostly due to being projectiles and rather slow at that.

[Beemann]

Grenadier, Brawler and Vanguard have the Vulcan, and the Brawler and Vanguard have hitscan primaries at level 1
If you want a C with a hitscan weapon, you have the option, it's just not the Rocketeer's thing
I WOULD like to be able to pick up the HEAT early on though

[Juodvarnis]

Grenadier has the vulcan_ I feel it would be better off with EOC and rocketeer with Vulcan

[Akaon]

Beemann, on January 06 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Rocketeers have several issues
1st and foremost, Hellfires are bad. They're really only good for stunlocking and that's map-dependent. The Hellfires have a very low skill floor, but the skill ceiling isn't much higher than that
2nd your primary options are the EOC and the Seekers, the latter having the same issues as the Hellfires, and the former requiring a lot of skill to use effectivelly
3rd C mechs are way too slow and turret mode is bad

It's not surprising that they're so underutilized

One thing that worries me though: my rocketeer currently has a 4.25-ish K:D, i can stomp pubs easily with it and get top scores consistently with it, unless there are good players in the game as well. I'm certain i can still do better if i'd pick berserker for example, but nonetheless.
If they buff the rocketeer, it might end up resulting in a mech that completely destroys noobs, maybe i'm overthinking this though.

But man, i can feel so powerless playing against good players in my rocketeer... Even i can dodge hellfire missiles in the open with my rocketeer, imagine.

About the skill floor though: it's not like you can't learn some new and interesting tricks with the hellfire and significantly improve your *accuracy* with it, the problem is that it's just way too easy to dodge. Combined with the fire delay, small obstacles like wires and poles usually taking out a few missiles here and there, and the fact that rather often you see 4 of your missiles not home in on your target - still no clue if this is a bug or intentional in some way.

[Beemann]

All there is to learn is arcing the Hellfires, which is something I figured would happen from the get-go
The ceiling IS higher than the floor, but not by much. Dice rolls and enemy competence take over from there

[Conquistador]

Beemann, on January 06 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

All there is to learn is arcing the Hellfires, which is something I figured would happen from the get-go
The ceiling IS higher than the floor, but not by much. Dice rolls and enemy competence take over from there

I wish they brought back the persistent lock-on mechanic of older game builds. I find the current hellfire implementation tends to lose lock-on too quickly, which means I only manage to arc four of my eight rockets. The other four lose the lock and end up firing into oblivion.

[Etan]

If C class speed gets increased increase movement speed all around. The problem with C's is A. Turret Mode and B. Weapons

The brawler has a good weapon set it suits it fine and its a great mech all around. However the rocketeer is not in a very good place right now. You can be effective with it but mainly as a support. The Rev GL needs to be fixed before the grenadier gets brought into this.

The movement on a C class sucks for getting to objectives it takes too long. But combat wise it seems to be right.

[Ace4225]

Etan, on January 06 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

The movement on a C class sucks for getting to objectives it takes too long.

not really. It's just that C-classes are better suited for holding objective points rather than taking them.

And what's all this fuzzy bunny talk of C-classes needing serious buffing_ I'm all for a slight speed buff [back to CB speed levels] but that fact alone hardly makes the class UP. A skilled Flak-Brawler can dominate a battlefield, and the Rev is currently OP because of stunlock and ridiculous damage. I wouldn't even say Rocketeer needs too much help either; I've even occasionally won DMs with it against above-average players; it just requires a more defensive, ranged playstyle.

If we were basing our thoughts on the class's performance in DM, I could see some of those arguments flying because of the higher speed of A-classes making it simply easier for them to get kills quicker.

But DM is by far the least competitive mode in the game... [apart from the broken Siege, but we know that's getting fixed soon]

Edited by Ace4225, January 06 2013 - 09:17 PM.

[Beemann]

Flak Brawler is good because the maps currently support it. Playing Flak Brawler against good players on a more open/midrange-focused map is pants
RevGL needing a nerf doesn't make normal C mechs not underpowered, and don't we define underpowered as something that doesn't meet the median effectiveness level_ If C mechs were at said level before, and received a nerf, then they're UP. It doesn't have to be by much, but I mean... did we see SMC use in the tourney finals_

@Conquistador
I'd rather that they just replace the mechanic. Lock-on and sticky beam weapons automatically have a lower skill ceiling and, for balance reasons, should be at a lower level of effectiveness than weapons that are more aim intensive (so as to incentivize the primary skill of a shooter)

@Etan
The speed gap between C's and B's was needlessly increased. The suggested buff would bring it back in line with the other mechs (IE where it was in CB3)
I would not, however, be opposed to a speed increase (keeping the speed proportions equal to that of CB3) and a health increase of about 10-20%

Edited by Beemann, January 06 2013 - 10:18 PM.

[Ace4225]

Beemann, on January 06 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

Playing Flak Brawler against good players on a more open/midrange-focused map is pants

Really_ Is that why I've seen good Brawler pilots dominate even on Bazaar_ They're even scarier in team-based games where the mechs' roles shine brightly... at least A mechs die from a couple of well-placed TOWs...

Edited by Ace4225, January 06 2013 - 11:05 PM.