191 replies to this topic

[Calaban619]

This is the aspect of Hawken that I most love: the chaos of you piloting a Mech that is under fire, rockets and grenade blasts throwing your view wildly around, smoke and sparks and cracks in your screen all in your face...

.. yet through it all, you manage to jumpjet high enough over that wall to get a bead on that fleeing Reaper, and finish him off with a well aimed TOW.. despite all that chaos. WHAT an adrenaline rush!!

The thing is, I have encountered several comments in game like "oh, I turn all motion off, it gets in the way of my killing stuff", or "its so much easier to aim with shake off".

And this bothers me. I feel that the chaos and disruption of the piloting is a key part of the game, yet others have the ability to turn it off, to make their aiming and shooting easier. Nevermind the  severe handicap suffered by the "shakers" when they face off against a "smoothy"; while one is barely able to see the enemy amidst the mayhem, and the other is blissfully lining up his shots again and again..

So, my suggestion, initially, was to make Camera Shake settings Mandatory. But then I realized some people out there with little fuzzy bunny bellies might get motion sickness or something, So rather than make it mandatory, instead have a Matchup preference that can be checked before finding a match... call it "True Grit" or "Hardcore" setting, where all players have full camera shake as a requirement. All other matches can be labelled "aww, precious!"  matchups for all I care (As I would never play in those myself.)

So please enable a "hardcore" mode, that those of like mind as me can opt-in, and smile grimly in the knowledge that ALL the chaos we experience on the battlefield is gloriously reveled in by ALL the others as well. We dont need some insecure kid who places his self worth into his kill/death ratio stats fluffing up the place.

Edited by Calaban619, January 31 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[Corpinator]

I second this. Whether it be skill or sheer luck, I'm overwhelmed by the fact that I can manage to get those too-close-for-comfort-kills.

However, there's little chance against those with motion disabled. I see this mostly in 1v1 sniper battles. Hard hits shake up the screen well enough for someone with decent skill to struggle in their next shot, but there's no sure victory against someone who can just stop their movement and aim and fire calmly. No adrenaline rush. No point in playing a game that's meant to exhilarate.

[TwiceDead]

Calaban619, on January 31 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

And this bothers me. I feel that the chaos and disruption of the piloting is a key part of the game, yet others have the ability to turn it off, to make their aiming and shooting easier.

... No. I like being in control of what's happening, and I definitely do not like having my aim distorted every third second while I am in combat due to the millenia of Fred's with ToW's on their right.

[Krellus]

I think the trouble is the motion sickness thing, which i get. I wouldnt mind a toned down compulsory aspect, or indeed the option the OP suggests

[AsianJoyKiller]

At the default settings, the camera shake gives me a migraine.

I have to turn it to minimal setting, otherwise I wouldn't be able to play the game for more that 10 minutes.

[SamSlade]

pointless suggestion.  They will not split the player base to indulge peoples ego.  You got killed in CQB by a sniper...deal with it.

[Gunmoku]

Camera shake itself shouldn't be mandatory.  Like what AJK mentioned, it can make certain players nauseous if violent movement becomes common and put them at a significant disadvantage.

What should be done, perhaps, is what was done back in internal Alpha shown in the old sizzle reels from PAX 2011.  Make the HUD get fuzzy or knocked off center when hit with a large amount of damage, possibly to coincide with how stun/knockback is established now.  It still rewards skilled players for fighting back in dire situations and still provides an immerisve feel to the game without making it painstaking for poorly coordinated players.

[Majic12]

Since I play the game for the look and feel, mostly just for the fun of it, I really enjoy the rattling and shaking, the chaos emerging around me from one second to the next. It also bothers me a bit to know people which are more on the competitive side can up their performance by reducing distractions like said effects. But then again, one has to respect that style of play, as well as the fact that people just get sick of all the motion.

To each his own. Keep the setting optional and just let people choose what style they like playing the most.

Oh and also what Gunmoku said. Never miss a chance to promote the alpha-style HUD. Gimme more of dat twitch.

Edited by Majic12, January 31 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[Calaban619]

Then, for those unwilling/unable to play the more chaotic violent style of play, just have a "hardcore" opt-in box to check, for those who DO want the shake/rattle/headspins/"OMG! I GOT him!!- and him, and him and HIM!!" gameplay.

The way it stands right now, I am stuck with the "more competitive players" (my! what a PC term!) mixed in with the others in a match, and I wonder if when that last Beserker effortlessly killed me if it was Skill.._ Or just a stable firing platform while I was all shook up_

I would respect a player that had some sort of HardCore icon next to his name, knowing he did that WITH shake enabled.

It kind of leaves a sour taste in my mouth, wondering if all those 25+ kills per game guys got there with more ease than my current struggle to improve my skills. In that light, if they can just turn the disruptions off.. then what is the point of a score, or a rank_!_

[Xuande]

SamSlade, on January 31 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

pointless suggestion.  They will not split the player base to indulge peoples ego.  You got killed in CQB by a sniper...deal with it.

QFT!

[Beemann]

I'm not sure why people are epeen waving over intentionally gimping themselves with visual clutter
If you value pretty things over an efficient UI and clean visuals, then that's your choice. Getting mad at people who have different settings is like getting mad because not everyone wants to 360 noscope every shot, and asking for a special mode to be added for you seems a bit odd when you consider the size of the team and the scope of the project

[Gagzila]

Beemann, on January 31 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

I'm not sure why people are epeen waving over intentionally gimping themselves with visual clutter
If you value pretty things over an efficient UI and clean visuals, then that's your choice. Getting mad at people who have different settings is like getting mad because not everyone wants to 360 noscope every shot, and asking for a special mode to be added for you seems a bit odd when you consider the size of the team and the scope of the project

You're barking up the wrong tree Beemann...it's about the experience people are after. For instance, I play rfactor which is a racing simulator and I prefer to play with no assists on, full damage and in the cockpit / helmet camera view to get as close a simulation experience as I can with the game...a "hardcore" mode. These options are all able to be defined by the hosting server to create matches for people wanting to get the same experience while racing and know it's a level playing field, that the car next to them doesn't have for instance, ABS, invulnerability and third person which clearly can be quite advantageous.

BF3 has a hardcore mode where most weapons can kill you in one to two shots and you can't see your HUD, making for a more sensory and brutal experience instead of being able to take a half a magazine of bullets from someone and keep running. It changes up the gameplay to something requiring much greater focus and pre-thought on your actions as it's so easy to die. I enjoy normal BF3 but hardcore is all I play as I find it a far greater challenge and much more fun.

I think Hawken would definitely benefit from it's own version of hardcore game modes down the track and just like people not wanting to use the physx particle option, if you don't like the idea of hardcore, just play the normal servers. I am thinking along the lines of what Calaban has suggested in his OP along with no HUD, just physical instruments on your mech cockpit dash, no radar, no AI voice alerts and maybe have base damage amplified by 20-30% for all mechs...it's just you stomping along in your mech, talking to team mates via radio and blowing enemies away as you happen across them.

So while not being a mech simulator like MWO, people are still after an immersive, full on mech experience...those kind of scenes Calaban described and the cockpit visual experience in the initial videos of Hawken are a big part of what first caught the attention and imagination of so many people.

Cheers,

Gagzila

Edit: Just to clarify my position on the OP, I do not think camera shake should be mandatory because of the effect it has with some people but a hardcore mode for servers I think is a must. What that mode entails requires much more discussion

Edited by Gagzila, January 31 2013 - 09:45 PM.

[Dreizehn]

I think aim shake could be a mechanic though. Mechwarrior 4 mechs would get their aim thrown off if hit by sufficient force.

And maybe that could be a thing for certain weapons. Direct explosive weapon hits could jostle aim rather than stop you dead.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Calaban619, on January 31 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Then, for those unwilling/unable to play the more chaotic violent style of play, just have a "hardcore" opt-in box to check, for those who DO want the shake/rattle/headspins/"OMG! I GOT him!!- and him, and him and HIM!!" gameplay.

The way it stands right now, I am stuck with the "more competitive players" (my! what a PC term!) mixed in with the others in a match, and I wonder if when that last Beserker effortlessly killed me if it was Skill.._ Or just a stable firing platform while I was all shook up_

I would respect a player that had some sort of HardCore icon next to his name, knowing he did that WITH shake enabled.

It kind of leaves a sour taste in my mouth, wondering if all those 25+ kills per game guys got there with more ease than my current struggle to improve my skills. In that light, if they can just turn the disruptions off.. then what is the point of a score, or a rank_!_

Do realize that the cockpit lag and shake don't have a huge effect on some peoples skills.
I honestly can do just as well with the effects at higher settings. It doesn't actually hamper me in the slightest (in fact, when they recently removed minimal inherent cockpit lag, it gave me trouble because of how instantly responsive things were).
If the person is going 25+ kills per game, a little thing like cockpit lag and shake will not keep them from doing that well (unless like me, it eventually makes it physically unplayable).

[Gagzila]

AsianJoyKiller, on January 31 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

Do realize that the cockpit lag and shake don't have a huge effect on some peoples skills.
I honestly can do just as well with the effects at higher settings. It doesn't actually hamper me in the slightest (in fact, when they recently removed minimal inherent cockpit lag, it gave me trouble because of how instantly responsive things were).
If the person is going 25+ kills per game, a little thing like cockpit lag and shake will not keep them from doing that well (unless like me, it eventually makes it physically unplayable).

I'm pretty sure the point is having a level playing field. As Calaban has eluded to, playing with camera shake makes it harder for him as it would for others. The fact that it does not specifically affect yourself skill wise is beside the point and poses the question on why you are even bothering to post_ (he did after all say it obviously can't be mandatory and so would be a game mode option that he is asking for) He wants to play the game at it's maximum emulation of riding in a mech cockpit without having to disadvantage himself.

Like in my example above in rfactor...if the game offers options that people want to experience while they play, they should be able to without putting themselves at a disadvantage. The way to do that in this instance is to create an option that separates such players from the ones that do not want this so everyone can play the game the way they want to and continue enjoying it.

If such a mode existed then there is no reason for anyone to complain about it any more, in either that it disadvantages them or makes them sick.

Cheers,

Gagzila

Edited by Gagzila, January 31 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Gagzila, on January 31 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on January 31 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

Do realize that the cockpit lag and shake don't have a huge effect on some peoples skills.
I honestly can do just as well with the effects at higher settings. It doesn't actually hamper me in the slightest (in fact, when they recently removed minimal inherent cockpit lag, it gave me trouble because of how instantly responsive things were).
If the person is going 25+ kills per game, a little thing like cockpit lag and shake will not keep them from doing that well (unless like me, it eventually makes it physically unplayable).

I'm pretty sure the point is having a level playing field. As Calaban has eluded to, playing with camera shake makes it harder for him as it would for others. The fact that it does not specifically affect yourself skill wise is beside the point and poses the question on why you are even bothering to post_ (he did after all say it obviously can't be mandatory and so would be a game mode option that he is asking for) He wants to play the game at it's maximum emulation of riding in a mech cockpit without having to disadvantage himself.

Like in my example above in rfactor...if the game offers options that people want to experience while they play, they should be able to without putting themselves at a disadvantage. The way to do that in this instance is to create an option that separates such players from the ones that do not want this so everyone can play the game the way they want to and continue enjoying it.

If such a mode existed then there is no reason for anyone to complain about it any more, in either that it disadvantages them or makes them sick.

Cheers,

Gagzila

Should we then also create special modes only for those who use gamepads and specific modes for those who use joysticks_ How about special matches for people who only play on Ultra_

You choose to play at a disadvantage. Nobody forces you to play like that. If you are unwilling to break immersion to be competitive, it is your loss.

[Martock]

I don't see why people would play with the camera shake off to be honest. This is a mech game after all. Seems a lot more realistic to me if my mech's cockpit shakes when an explosive goes off a foot away from me.  I highly support this idea. Make the shaking mandatory!

[Beemann]

Martock, on January 31 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:

I don't see why people would play with the camera shake off to be honest. This is a mech game after all. Seems a lot more realistic to me if my mech's cockpit shakes when an explosive goes off a foot away from me.  I highly support this idea. Make the shaking mandatory!

If it's supposed to be "realistic", why does our fuel and ammo come back, and why don't 180 spins and long falls harm the pilot_

[RedVan]

How about we call it "everybody sucks mode because nobody can see what's going on with all the splash spam"

[Majic12]

Yeah, let's make it a realistic mech game by piloting this guy up and down a small set of stairs in an controlled environment.

Seriously, talking about realsim here is untenable. It's about what makes the game feel immersive and not about cold hard facts.
If I die everytime I dodge into a wall, that probably would make things pretty frustrating. Shaking cockpit and HUD_ Can't see fuzzy bunny captain but this surely feels awesome. I'll gladly suck and have a good time rather than having little to no details but pimping my kd to a 4:1 ratio. But that's something that everybody has to decide by themselves. Therefore I also don't like the idea about splitting things up into regular and hardcore modes.