200 replies to this topic

[FacelessOne]

Asian, I'm going to assume, based on your comments, that you have so much time for Hawken because you are a philosopher. lol

But in all seriousness, I understand where the idea of a condescending "GG" comes from. Sometimes I wonder if it comes across that way when I say it. I think it depends largely on context. Some people mean it as "I had a rather enjoyable game" while others may mean "This game a whole was quite exquisite for all parties involved". I interchange my meanings depending on the match but usually mean it the first way. I can have a pretty damn good game, win or lose.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Agile, on February 11 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

A GG according to the urban dictionary:

1. A polite remark uttered after the end of a round, game, or other measured interval to indicate that a match was FAIR and ENJOYABLE. Usually uttered collectively by the occupants of a game server. The opposite of BG

2. A condescending remark, often uttered by somebody who DOES NOT KNOW MEANING 1, and is simply repeating what others have told them.

The term "gg" has been around longer than that definition. Unless you really think that it was coined in 2003_

The problem with saying that people are using "gg" negatively is that it's based on your assumption and applying your own definition. Stating that people say it negatively as a fact is based on the predication that you know what they are thinking.

[FacelessOne]

Of course I know what they are thinking. I am an Agent. And this is the Matrix. Hawken is a lie. Fuzzy bunny is a lie.

[ShadowGTR]

Xuande, on February 11 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

You know what grinds my gears_ (well not really, I kinda laugh, but still!!) When a mech god descends from the skies and gets 45/0 k/d and has the nerve to say "gg" at the score screen. How in the HELL is that a "gg"_ It's like the frakker is taunting everyone.

Well, I did have a Siege match where I went 76, 4, 20. Unfortunately, the rest were all rookies on both teams. However, the rookies on the opposing team were extremely good at defending the AA, and the match went for over an hour! It was a seriously close match too (they only had 39 health left on their base....no idea how we didn't get that last shot). They won (our team just couldn't get that AA from them), and despite all the bulldozing I did, no one got upset with me. In fact, they loved the match, and wanted to go again!

Lol! Mech god. Never heard that used before. Course, using that term might be like calling down some powerful mythological deity or.......

*AJK appears*

Uh.....oh.

Edited by ShadowGTR, February 11 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[Xuande]

AsianJoyKiller, on February 11 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Xuande, on February 11 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

You know what grinds my gears_ (well not really, I kinda laugh, but still!!) When a mech god descends from the skies and gets 45/0 k/d and has the nerve to say "gg" at the score screen. How in the HELL is that a "gg"_ It's like the frakker is taunting everyone.

And can you prove that_
Or is it just an assumption you would make_

Read closer. I said "It's like" which I'm sure is equivalent to "It seems."

[Agile]

AsianJoyKiller, on February 11 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

Agile, on February 11 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

A GG according to the urban dictionary:

1. A polite remark uttered after the end of a round, game, or other measured interval to indicate that a match was FAIR and ENJOYABLE. Usually uttered collectively by the occupants of a game server. The opposite of BG

2. A condescending remark, often uttered by somebody who DOES NOT KNOW MEANING 1, and is simply repeating what others have told them.

The term "gg" has been around longer than that definition. Unless you really think that it was coined in 2003_

The problem with saying that people are using "gg" negatively is that it's based on your assumption and applying your own definition. Stating that people say it negatively as a fact is based on the predication that you know what they are thinking.

Ofcourse the gg was around before the defenition, usually these things just happen to become a defenition later on, often phrased in a way it fits best or what the majority thinks of it.

Also, i have not said that i think people mean a gg negativly. I started this thread because i sometimes find (in certain situations) a GG innapropriate, if that GG was meant possitive or negative isnt really important.

[Keiichi81]

AsianJoyKiller, on February 11 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

Agile, on February 11 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

A GG according to the urban dictionary:

1. A polite remark uttered after the end of a round, game, or other measured interval to indicate that a match was FAIR and ENJOYABLE. Usually uttered collectively by the occupants of a game server. The opposite of BG

2. A condescending remark, often uttered by somebody who DOES NOT KNOW MEANING 1, and is simply repeating what others have told them.

The term "gg" has been around longer than that definition. Unless you really think that it was coined in 2003_

The problem with saying that people are using "gg" negatively is that it's based on your assumption and applying your own definition. Stating that people say it negatively as a fact is based on the predication that you know what they are thinking.

How can a "good game" after a lopsided pubstomp be interpreted any other way than "I thought that was an excellent match because I enjoy stomping noobs in an uneven game with double the players on my side"_ If you meant "good game" to mean "Hey, thanks for the match and for being good sports even though the teams were uneven" then perhaps the onus should be on you to better articulate what it is you wish to convey (for example, by saying "Hey, thanks for the match and for being good sports even though the teams were uneven") rather than blaming your victim for taking your "GG" at face value_

Good game = "That was a good game". Clearly if a match was a lopsided 50:0 pubstomp, then the only person it was a good game for was you and your team. "Good game" should be used after actual good games, not as some automatic catch-all after every match, because it doesn't apply to every match and it can easily be taken as patronizing when used inappropriately. If you want to convey something other than "that was a good game" after a brutal pubstomp then you should use something else. Otherwise, expect me to give you a hearty FU to go with your GG rght before I exit the server.

And if you've got a problem with that then maybe you just shouldn't read everything so negatively_ It's not my fault if the things I say inadvertently offend others, after all.

Edited by Keiichi81, February 11 2013 - 03:47 PM.

[Neverm0re]

It seems like a really easy fix for this is to just SAY SOMETHING DIFFERENT. If you thought the game was good and wasn't a roflstomp, then gg is perfectly fine and acceptable. If you are saying gg to mean something other than "good game", for example "I enjoyed the game" or "thank you for not leaving despite the stomp", then just say those things. If your language is not ambiguous then no one will mistake your intent and there won't be someone who feels like you kicked their ass and then mocked them about it, even if you weren't mocking the,.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Xuande, on February 11 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on February 11 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Xuande, on February 11 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

You know what grinds my gears_ (well not really, I kinda laugh, but still!!) When a mech god descends from the skies and gets 45/0 k/d and has the nerve to say "gg" at the score screen. How in the HELL is that a "gg"_ It's like the frakker is taunting everyone.

And can you prove that_
Or is it just an assumption you would make_

Read closer. I said "It's like" which I'm sure is equivalent to "It seems."

Right then. So it would be an assumption

What if then, you (generic "you" for the record) assumed that instead of taunting everyone, the "gg" implied praise for trying to succeed despite poor odds.
Then it would "seem" like the mech god is a nice person, who is courteous to all his opponents.

That's my point really.
Why assume the worst, especially since it will cause you frustration, anger and other negative emotions_ Why not assume the best_
If someone spends the match fuzzy bunny talking and being an fuzzy bunny, then yes, a "gg" at the end is a jerk move. But if it's just a skilled player saying "gg" at the end of a match, why get riled up about it when you could take it as a compliment_

Keiichi81, on February 11 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

How can a "good game" after a lopsided pubstomp be interpreted any other way than "I thought that was an excellent match because I enjoy stomping noobs in an uneven game with double the players on my side"_ If you meant "good game" to mean "Hey, thanks for the match and for being good sports even though the teams were uneven" then perhaps the onus should be on you to better articulate what it is you wish to convey (for example, by saying "Hey, thanks for the match and for being good sports even though the teams were uneven") rather than blaming your victim for taking your "GG" at face value_

How often when thanking someone for some sort of common daily happening do you just say "Thanks." as opposed to going into detail about why you're thanking them_

What if the person saying "gg" isn't great with a common language, or dislikes typing, and can't articulate themselves well_ Is it worth assuming that they're being a jerk_

Is it morally ethical to assume that someone is being condescending and sarcastic based on a single two letter utterance that, as has been show, is often an automatic impulse_
You say that the onus should be upon the person saying "gg" to articulate. But don't others have a moral responsibility not to jump to conclusions based on little-to-no substantial evidence_

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, February 11 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[Keiichi81]

AsianJoyKiller, on February 11 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Xuande, on February 11 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on February 11 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Xuande, on February 11 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

You know what grinds my gears_ (well not really, I kinda laugh, but still!!) When a mech god descends from the skies and gets 45/0 k/d and has the nerve to say "gg" at the score screen. How in the HELL is that a "gg"_ It's like the frakker is taunting everyone.

And can you prove that_
Or is it just an assumption you would make_

Read closer. I said "It's like" which I'm sure is equivalent to "It seems."

Right then. So it would be an assumption

What if then, you (generic "you" for the record) assumed that instead of taunting everyone, the "gg" implied praise for trying to succeed despite poor odds.
Then it would "seem" like the mech god is a nice person, who is courteous to all his opponents.

That's my point really.
Why assume the worst, especially since it will cause you frustration, anger and other negative emotions_ Why not assume the best_
If someone spends the match fuzzy bunny talking and being an fuzzy bunny, then yes, a "gg" at the end is a jerk move. But if it's just a skilled player saying "gg" at the end of a match, why get riled up about it when you could take it as a compliment_

Keiichi81, on February 11 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

How can a "good game" after a lopsided pubstomp be interpreted any other way than "I thought that was an excellent match because I enjoy stomping noobs in an uneven game with double the players on my side"_ If you meant "good game" to mean "Hey, thanks for the match and for being good sports even though the teams were uneven" then perhaps the onus should be on you to better articulate what it is you wish to convey (for example, by saying "Hey, thanks for the match and for being good sports even though the teams were uneven") rather than blaming your victim for taking your "GG" at face value_

How often when thanking someone for some sort of common daily happening do you just say "Thanks." as opposed to going into detail about why you're thanking them_

What if the person saying "gg" isn't great with a common language, or dislikes typing, and can't articulate themselves well_ Is it worth assuming that they're being a jerk_

Is it morally ethical to assume that someone is being condescending and sarcastic based on a single two letter utterance that, as has been show, is often an automatic impulse_
You say that the onus should be upon the person saying "gg" to articulate. But don't others have a moral responsibility not to jump to conclusions based on little-to-no substantial evidence_

No, because it's not jumping to conclusions to read GG as "That was a good game." It is in fact the opposite of jumping to a conclusion. That is its literal meaning. And if you're going to tell me that your lopsided pubstomp was a good game, then that means you're either a condescending prick or you're a fuzzy bunny who doesn't see anything wrong with stacking teams and stomping noobs. Telling someone "good game" after stomping them 6v3 and 3000:0 is like kicking a kid while your buddies hold him down and then telling him "good fight" afterwards. They sure as heck know if wasn't a good game, so saying it means you either believe it in which case you're a prick who's apparently completely oblivious to or just doesn't care about how unfair the match was (in effect saying "That wasn't a pubstomp, that was a good game") or you don't believe it in which case you're patronizing them.

On the contrary, assuming that anyone saying GG after a lopsided pubstomp must mean something wholely different than "That was a good game" and they're simply incapable of articulating what it is they mean would be the definition of jumping to a conclusion based on little-to-no evidence.

Really, is it so hard to simply use GG where it is appropriate and not use it when it isn't_ Teams were even and the opposition put up a good fight_ By all means, GG away! Uneven pubstomp where you ground the other team into dust and they never had a chance_ Say something else like "Thanks for the game" or "GLHF next round". Something that can't be interpreted by already-frustrated players as you kicking them in the teeth.

Edited by Keiichi81, February 11 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[Agile]

The sender chose to spoke up by messaging a GG. The sender has first responsabilty in all this. If it was send out of courtecy the sender should also care how the message is received. What you say also depends on when you say it and to whom. The same word does not slways mean ghe same thing.

[Hilljack]

Keiichi81, on February 11 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

How can a "good game" after a lopsided pubstomp be interpreted any other way than "I thought that was an excellent match because I enjoy stomping noobs in an uneven game with double the players on my side"_

Just for example, one of the many popular and positive meanings of the phrase is "I know that was tough. As a competitor I've been there myself, but you were well played in the face of such an overwhelming adversary." ...but "gg" is easier to type.

When I've been on the winning side of a stomp and said "gg" it has never been meant as an insult. I have just as many times been on the losing side of a stomp and said "gg" as well.

No doubt, however, someone will offer "no bg" in retort but his displeasure does not concern me because I consider the onus to be on him to regulate his own internal experiences.

[Xuande]

Keiichi said it best AJK.
EDIT: Also, who said I was frustrated_ I pretty much said in parentheses, I laugh when I see it.

Edited by Xuande, February 11 2013 - 03:28 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Xuande, on February 11 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Keiichi said it best AJK.

The problem is that his argument is highly dependent on a series of assumptions and logical fallacies.

Also, why has no one answered these question_
Why assume the worst, especially since it will cause you frustration, anger and other negative emotions_ Why not assume the best_
If someone spends the match fuzzy bunny talking and being an fuzzy bunny, then yes, a "gg" at the end is a jerk move. But if it's just a skilled player saying "gg" at the end of a match, why get riled up about it when you could take it as a compliment_

[DieselCat]

RisorialScion, on February 11 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

Well, my GG is being misinterpreted then. I ALWAYS say GG, whether it was a close match, whether I got stomped or not, whether I won or lost by a great difference in score. It is just my way of saying 'thank you for the match'.

I agree that this is the way GG should be used and the way it's meant to be interpreted and everyone should really understand that it is the polite way to say thank you for the match regardless what the outcome was.

*+

[Xuande]

AsianJoyKiller, on February 11 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Xuande, on February 11 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Keiichi said it best AJK.

The problem is that his argument is highly dependent on a series of assumptions and logical fallacies.

Also, why has no one answered these question_
Why assume the worst, especially since it will cause you frustration, anger and other negative emotions_ Why not assume the best_
If someone spends the match fuzzy bunny talking and being an fuzzy bunny, then yes, a "gg" at the end is a jerk move. But if it's just a skilled player saying "gg" at the end of a match, why get riled up about it when you could take it as a compliment_

Quote

No, because it's not jumping to conclusions to read GG as "That was a good game." It is in fact the opposite of jumping to a conclusion. That is its literal meaning.

Quote

On the contrary, assuming that anyone saying GG after a lopsided pubstomp must mean something wholely different than "That was a good game" and they're simply incapable of articulating what it is they mean would be the definition of jumping to a conclusion based on little-to-no evidence.

Quote

Really, is it so hard to simply use GG where it is appropriate and not use it when it isn't_ Teams were even and the opposition put up a good fight_ By all means, GG away! Uneven pubstomp where you ground the other team into dust and they never had a chance_ Say something else like "Thanks for the game" or "GLHF next round". Something that can't be interpreted by already-frustrated players as you kicking them in the teeth.

Took the words right out of my mouth. I'm not seeing the logical fallacies in this. Sounds like a pretty damn good counter argument to me.

[Keiichi81]

Hilljack, on February 11 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Keiichi81, on February 11 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

How can a "good game" after a lopsided pubstomp be interpreted any other way than "I thought that was an excellent match because I enjoy stomping noobs in an uneven game with double the players on my side"_

Just for example, one of the many popular and positive meanings of the phrase is "I know that was tough. As a competitor I've been there myself, but you were well played in the face of such an overwhelming adversary." ...but "gg" is easier to type.

When I've been on the winning side of a stomp and said "gg" it has never been meant as an insult. I have just as many times been on the losing side of a stomp and said "gg" as well.

No doubt, however, someone will offer "no bg" in retort but his displeasure does not concern me because I consider the onus to be on him to regulate his own internal experiences.

One of the popular and positive meanings of "GG"_ I'm sorry to break this to you, but the only place that "GG" means "I know that was tough. As a competitor I've been there myself, but you were well played in the face of such an overwhelming adversary," is in your head. You can't expect anyone else to be able to divine whatever meaning you meant to convey if you choose to convey it poorly. It's up to you to ensure that your message is understood, and using a shorthand that can easily be misconstrued or interpreted differently is on you.

When someone says "GG" it means "good game". Not "Hey, thanks for being good sports and not leaving." Not "It was a pleasure to make your acquaintence and I hope you all enjoyed yourselves." Not "As someone who's been in your position, I know that the teams were stacked and you must be frustrated, but maybe things will be better next round_" In my opinion, if you're so lazy that you can't be bothered to type more than 2 letters, it's better not to type anything at all.

AsianJoyKiller, on February 11 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Xuande, on February 11 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

Keiichi said it best AJK.

The problem is that his argument is highly dependent on a series of assumptions and logical fallacies.

You mean a series of assumptions like "the person typing 'gg' must mean something radically different from 'good game' and instead means to convey a message that I'm just going to make up in my head for the sake of being positive and is simply too inarticulate to vocalize it properly"_ What logical fallacies do you speak of_

AsianJoyKiller, on February 11 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Also, why has no one answered these question_
Why assume the worst, especially since it will cause you frustration, anger and other negative emotions_ Why not assume the best_
If someone spends the match fuzzy bunny talking and being an fuzzy bunny, then yes, a "gg" at the end is a jerk move. But if it's just a skilled player saying "gg" at the end of a match, why get riled up about it when you could take it as a compliment_

Because language.

If you compose yourself poorly and are misunderstood, you can't fault the recipient for interpreting your message in its literal, logical form. Otherwise, language becomes meaningless and I could go around saying that when I type "HAHA FU NOOBS" after matches what I really mean is "Congratulations on a sporting game. I hope you all had a thoroughly enjoyable time - as did I - and I look forward to playing with you again. Even though our scores were radically disparate, I trust you wont allow that to discourage you and instead use it as motivation to better yourself," and it's on you if you misunderstood me. Why do you have to be so negative and assume the worst, after all_

Want to know a good indication that your message is poorly articulated_ When there's a 5-page thread disputing what it really means, with as many different interpretations as there are people arguing about it. So, you know, maybe be more articulate and use more than 2 letters when you want to convey your point_ Like "Thank you for the match." Takes about 3 seconds longer to type, and you don't have to worry about people feeling like you're patronizing them.

Edited by Keiichi81, February 11 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[Daronicus]

Personally, I think if you're going to take a "gg" badly, it's you who is the bad sport.  I got into the habit of saying "gg" after every match from Starcraft 2 (and League of Legends to a lesser extent, but perhaps a more apt example considering the complaints about imbalanced teams), where it's considered good manners, regardless of how the game went.  Close win or crushing defeat, you say "gg." Even if a team member raged out, be it theirs or yours, you say it.  You responding badly to that, e.g. replying with "bg," is akin to you spitting on me after any sport when I offer my hand.  Both the handshake and the "gg" are there to say, in effect, "I respect you for playing the game with sportsmanship and honor, and I recognize you as an equal, regardless of any differences in skill."  I could type that out, I suppose, but gg is shorter.

Note that there are indeed exceptions.  If someone trash talks the entire game and then finishes it all with "gg scrubs," well, that person is a jerk.  But him being a jerk and me trying to be courteous are separate actions, so maybe don't lump me in with him just because I used the same words.  I can make any compliment sound mean in the right context, after all.  Point being, I don't think you should assume the worst of me with only that assumption to go on.

Also, before going all "But in a game where teams are uneven..." note that this doesn't happen much with me.  The only times I wouldn't switch are if I don't notice or we're still losing or if me switching would just unbalance it in the other direction (and even then, I ask someone else to switch; if nobody does, I will, and they will have reaped what they've sown).


Edit:  Regarding Keiichi's points:

If someone--having come from a different gaming culture than me--misinterprets something that I've said because of ignorance, then I can hash it out with them and everyone can be happier.  If that same person--after having been informed of my intentions--continues to see an insult where no insult was thrown, that person is an obstinate and belligerent person.  Others have offered their own innocent reasons for throwing out a "gg" after a match, and you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that whether or not some random player might use it to rub it in the face of their foes, there are lots of people out there who use it as a friendly acknowledgement of the other team's efforts.  Knowing this, and continuing to be upset at its use, is kind of... wrong.  Because either you lump me in with everyone who uses it to lord over others (and I've certainly seen people use "Thanks for the match" in like fashion, so are you now a jerk if you use that phrase, too_) or you can't handle losing, and any compliment from the winning side is seen as condescending.  Why not just treat it on a case-by-case basis, where people who are polite and courteous clearly mean it as such, and jerks are jerks_

Edited by Daronicus, February 11 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[[HWK]Vanashinkaku]

My Input:

Saying GG, or Good Game, is a matter of sportsmanlike conduct. Like two baseball teams walking down a line and hitting gloves and shake hands after a match.  It has nothing to do necessarily with ones teams abilities or the other, but more of a mutual respect towards each team that they put forward their best.  

The game may or may not have been good for either party, but its still polite, winner or loser, to show the other team that you feel they played well. (Even if you really, deep down, think they were complete fuzzy bunnies )

I'm an avid online gamer myself, and I see GG used in several ways every day.  From the "GG" bad attitude, we're going to lose because of a rough start to the match, to the GG "that was an awesome, fun, and intense match".   I feel that as someone who is heavily involved in eSports as well as an avid follower of many teams in different games, that if us gamers want to be taken seriously in the future and to help Hawken as well as many of these other games grow in the eSports world, we need to treat our matches (and other players) as if we're all professional players (and mature adults) and give respect to everyone on your team as well as the enemies.  You can't win them all.

This goes for people who are winning as well.  If you're winning a match, why do many gamers feel that they have the right to suddenly trash talk the "noob" on the other team that they are demolishing.  They already have the hard time of dealing with their team being let down by their inability to perform in their role, they do not need, nor should they have to deal with, someone from the other team trash talking them as well.  We all have bad days, we all have matches where we are out-played and we all need to remember that and try to help others who are having a rough time, rather than put them down.

TL;DR ... No matter what, treat other pilots with respect and try to have fun, even in a losing situation.  A team that works together and overcomes hardships like this can and will win out over a team full of good players that are extremely cocky and/or disorganized.   We're all in this war together pilots, so lets help our fellow men/women out on the battlefield and find VICCCTTOOORRRRYYY!

Oh, and GG

[Hilljack]

Keiichi81, on February 11 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Hilljack, on February 11 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Keiichi81, on February 11 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

How can a "good game" after a lopsided pubstomp be interpreted any other way than "I thought that was an excellent match because I enjoy stomping noobs in an uneven game with double the players on my side"_

Just for example, one of the many popular and positive meanings of the phrase is "I know that was tough. As a competitor I've been there myself, but you were well played in the face of such an overwhelming adversary." ...but "gg" is easier to type.

When I've been on the winning side of a stomp and said "gg" it has never been meant as an insult. I have just as many times been on the losing side of a stomp and said "gg" as well.

No doubt, however, someone will offer "no bg" in retort but his displeasure does not concern me because I consider the onus to be on him to regulate his own internal experiences.

One of the popular and positive meanings of "GG"_ I'm sorry to break this to you, but the only place that "GG" means "I know that was tough. As a competitor I've been there myself, but you were well played in the face of such an overwhelming adversary," is in your head. You can't expect anyone else to be able to divine whatever meaning you meant to convey if you choose to convey it poorly. It's up to you to ensure that your message is understood, and using a shorthand that can easily be misconstrued or interpreted differently is on you.

When someone says "GG" it means "good game". Not "Hey, thanks for being good sports and not leaving." Not "It was a pleasure to make your acquaintence and I hope you all enjoyed yourselves." Not "As someone who's been in your position, I know that the teams were stacked and you must be frustrated, but maybe things will be better next round_" In my opinion, if you're so lazy that you can't be bothered to type more than 2 letters, it's better not to type anything at all.

Actually it was you who first tried to shoe horn the meaning of "good game" into  "I thought that was an excellent match because I enjoy stomping noobs in an uneven game with double the players on my side".

You asked how "good game" could be interpreted as anything other than that meaning and I gave you a popular example. In your confusion you claim that the assumptions are in my head. Good day, sir.