160 replies to this topic

[G4M5T3R]

ReachH, on February 17 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Dear h0B0,

In your opinion, is it necessary to shampoo and condition your beard or chest hair_


Regards,

Men

Lmfao

[Frenotx]

Umbre, on February 17 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

EOC does 240 damage without internals now. It went up to around 257 with the bullet internal, I believe.

Really wish they would have left the damage alone, and increased the projectile speed instead. :/

[Conquistador]

RedVan, on February 17 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Conquistador, on February 17 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Also, I had no idea that sharpshooters could one-shot light mechs. And that's terrible.

They can three shot light mechs. 2 slug one sabot. That requires the SS to have the cool down complete on both weapons at once, and requires a target stupid enough to not get to cover after getting hit with the first combo.

Given the fact you're dual wielding, you can practically condense the first slug and sabot into a single shot. It's more like two-shotting a light mech, then. Not a vast improvement, at any rate.

Edited by Conquistador, February 17 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[Akaon]

Still, there's people maining SS claiming it's absolutely not OP. Or they disguise trolling very well.

[Culex]

From my experience, A-mechs go down in 4 hits. One double shot slug/sabot during powershot, then. powershot slug, and then another slug (ps or not).

[AsianJoyKiller]

Akaon, on February 17 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

Still, there's people maining SS claiming it's absolutely not OP. Or they disguise trolling very well.

I'd like to know who these people are... because if they don't think it's at least a little OP at the moment, they're either trolling or not as good at SS as they think they are.

[xXHadronCutterXx]

It takes a three shot with the Power Shot ability to take down a stationary A class. The SS is technically a sniping mech, and every game has snipers which 1 shot kill opponents. Here, at best you can take down your fast mobile enemy with three shots within 3 seconds. I'm sorry, but that does not sound OP to me as it's preety hard to do that unless your enemy isn't paying attention. You may disagree, but that's my opinion.

[Culex]

h0B0, on February 17 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Forgot to mention The maximum amount of damage the SS can deal during its ability is 625.

Can you elaborate how you determined the amount (including if certain internals were used, etc.)_

[machmanx]

tman7919, on February 17 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Rei, on February 17 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Why do kids love cinnamon toast crunch!_

I don't...

So you're a kid_

[SilentJacket]

machmanx, on February 17 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

tman7919, on February 17 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Rei, on February 17 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Why do kids love cinnamon toast crunch!_

I don't...

So you're a kid_

[v009]

h0B0, on February 17 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

I am compiling all my test results here.
Ask if you want anything tested.

Repairing shows on radar at a range of ~60m same as walking.

Explosive amunitions do not work properly on EOC and HEAT However armor piercing munition does.

EOC got a buff during the reaper patch to its damage.

Miniflak now deals 32 dmg.

Forgot to mention The maximum amount of damage the SS can deal during its ability is 625.

Say What!!!!!

[The_Silencer]

h0B0, on February 17 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

...
Repairing shows on radar at a range of ~60m same as walking.
...

You mean... Just during a short time after starting your repairs or during all time while you repair your mecha_

Edit: url tags are not working at this moment__... ntz..
Source-> community.playhawken.com/topic/11960-fyi-on-maneuvering-and-radar/

Edited by The_Silencer, February 17 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[Galvanar]

AsianJoyKiller, on February 17 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

xXHadroncutterXx, on February 17 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

It may be bullshiet, but it requires some fine skill to perform that bullshiet, or incredible luck, or stupidity of your opponent.

Just because it's difficult for normal players, doesn't mean it's okay. Beemann and I know a couple of people who could do this consistently, and I'm fairly sure if they stepped into a match, people would start realizing how broken SS is.

That can be said for just about every mech. There are players that can dominate in every mech. Of course maybe the scout and the SS are more powerful than the others but there will always be a few classes or mechs that are the most powerful. Just about impossible to please everyone and make every class perfectly even. That's a fairly tale. And that's another thing should we weaken the SS just because less than 1% of the users can use it amazingly and piss off and nerf it for more than 99% of users_ Not a very bright ideal.

Conquistador, on February 17 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

RedVan, on February 17 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Conquistador, on February 17 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Also, I had no idea that sharpshooters could one-shot light mechs. And that's terrible.

They can three shot light mechs. 2 slug one sabot. That requires the SS to have the cool down complete on both weapons at once, and requires a target stupid enough to not get to cover after getting hit with the first combo.

Given the fact you're dual wielding, you can practically condense the first slug and sabot into a single shot. It's more like two-shotting a light mech, then. Not a vast improvement, at any rate.

This is what I said earlier. Using both primary and seconday at the sametime with the power ability you still can't one shot. You still need 1-3 hits after for even light mechs.

Culex, on February 17 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

From my experience, A-mechs go down in 4 hits. One double shot slug/sabot during powershot, then. powershot slug, and then another slug (ps or not).

That's about right.

AsianJoyKiller, on February 17 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Akaon, on February 17 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

Still, there's people maining SS claiming it's absolutely not OP. Or they disguise trolling very well.

I'd like to know who these people are... because if they don't think it's at least a little OP at the moment, they're either trolling or not as good at SS as they think they are.

Their probably not as good as they think they are. I think I'm decent but certainly not great. Regardless, a one shot sniping mech reduced to needing to hit the opponent 3-4 times doesn't sound OP to me. These people that can prove that SS is broken....... how good are there opponents_ Stand still newbies_ Any other mechs dash out of sight. That's why most games have the SS as a one hit kill. Here in this game they get hit and then they run for cover and there goes the kill. If their seasoned pilots they'll see the red arrow where the damage is coming from and move in the opposite direction. Iagree though that the SS in this game needs to be 3-4 hit kills because of all the wide open areas. Not many corridors or anything like that so it can't be a one hit kill. But certainly not OP.

xXHadroncutterXx, on February 17 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

It takes a three shot with the Power Shot ability to take down a stationary A class. The SS is technically a sniping mech, and every game has snipers which 1 shot kill opponents. Here, at best you can take down your fast mobile enemy with three shots within 3 seconds. I'm sorry, but that does not sound OP to me as it's preety hard to do that unless your enemy isn't paying attention. You may disagree, but that's my opinion.

I agree.

[RentAKnight]

Meh I've played in multiple organized MA's with good SS's and never once said to myself, that seems like its too much.  I think the SS is in the right place given the current meta game.

Organized MA does not mean random public games, but rather at least 10 players all on mumble all coordinating their efforts.

Is it too much for public play_  what isn't_  veterens just as easily blow pubs up with heat / tow.

Edited by RentAKnight, February 17 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[Xuande]

My question is related to a thread I created yesterday. How many shots does it take a SS to take out a mech in each class_ How fast_ What's the exact RoF between each shot_ What's the average amount of damage done_

[AsianJoyKiller]

Galvanar, on February 17 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on February 17 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

xXHadroncutterXx, on February 17 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

It may be bullshiet, but it requires some fine skill to perform that bullshiet, or incredible luck, or stupidity of your opponent.

Just because it's difficult for normal players, doesn't mean it's okay. Beemann and I know a couple of people who could do this consistently, and I'm fairly sure if they stepped into a match, people would start realizing how broken SS is.

That can be said for just about every mech. There are players that can dominate in every mech. Of course maybe the scout and the SS are more powerful than the others but there will always be a few classes or mechs that are the most powerful. Just about impossible to please everyone and make every class perfectly even. That's a fairly tale. And that's another thing should we weaken the SS just because less than 1% of the users can use it amazingly and piss off and nerf it for more than 99% of users_ Not a very bright ideal.

You don't balance classes with that much power around the average player. You try to balance them so they can't be horribly abused by great players.

[Culex]

RentAKnight, on February 17 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Meh I've played in multiple organized MA's with good SS's and never once said to myself, that seems like its too much.  I think the SS is in the right place given the current meta game.

Organized MA does not mean random public games, but rather at least 10 players all on mumble all coordinating their efforts.

Is it too much for public play_  what isn't_  veterens just as easily blow pubs up with heat / tow.

My thoughts as well.

With an SS on a point, you know exactly where they are shooting from. All you need to do is bombard the top of the point with stray TOW rockets, gl grenades, or hellfires, and you are effectively forcing them to pull back and repair. Even if you don't score direct hits on them, you're almost always guaranteed splash with manual detonation and you force them to have to regenerate their long sabot cooldowns behind a wall, while keeping out of your LoS, so this presents perfect opportunity to creep up on them. Splash/aoe damage is some of the most reliable damage in Hawken, and in a specified area, should dictate an SS retreat or severely limit their offensive. Easiest accomplished via Side-dashing/or jumping (not hovering) above a wall and shooting said secondary.

The biggest clear advantage one has is knowing the position of the SS (usually in a specified area, from time to time) and the SS has to guess where they will popout. The attention you have to put on nailing your targets is moreso than with other mechs, at the cost of situational awareness.

Once an SS starts firing, this is almost always announced on comms. Once an SS is called out, their windows of opportunity plummet unless they wait to pick off on an already occurring battle OR they change position. And changing position puts the SS more at risk, especially when they have to creep up. They have to look for another vantage point, and risk running across a mech more suitable for CQC and getting caught in crossfire.

A known SS also almost always means the SS will start receiving incoming damage from multiple angles. SS's have less windows of opportunity on maps like Origin, and I can remember when playing with the IRC guys including RAK, Rei, nonsiccus, Saturnine, Sylhiri and others, when stationing myself above S2 I'd have to boost to the front of the deck, quick-scope get off a double-shot and hit if I'm lucky, and immediately side-dodge, 180 spin, and back out (a term I've been calling drive-bys, lol). Standing for more than 2 seconds near the front meant a faceload of TOW.

Distract the SS with one mech, and they are easy pickings for a second one. Then there's the point where they get on the point with you. It becomes a LoS battle, and a TOW shot up from the other side (shot from any distance, mind you) hitting the SS's side or back, causes fight to always go to the SS's enemy. Weapons like the Heat cannon, grenade launcher, or tow are the bane of an SS pillar battle.

Then there is the fact they can get underneath the point, and unless they poked out far enough, I couldn't support my team above unless I jumped down (which I did rarely, since it usually meant death against these guys, it'd be a risk I could only take if we were already up numbers on the point) or I'd have to wait and hope they poked their heads out.

Edited by Culex, February 17 2013 - 02:42 PM.

[Xtratega]

Dear h0B0:

Will we ever get out of here alive_

[Culex]

Loving how this AskHobo thread got derailed into another SS is OP thread. Heh.

Also still hoping to find out how he came up with the max damage in powershot coming to 625. You literally have only enough time for a double shot and 2 slugs, assuming you shoot the instant it comes off cooldown and don't waste precious milliseconds when moving or scoping/unscoping.Offensive tree spec and internals were probably added in, but this is the max POTENTIAL an SS could accomplish (given landing all the shots) and not an average (if his math was correct). Offensive tree is too much of a gimp when giving up mobility tree, however. People see big numbers and go nuts.

Edited by Culex, February 17 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[ReachH]

I wonder what the perfect ratio of HEAT Scout:SS is for a competitive team_

Probably depends on map and item strategy.

Dear h0B0...

Edited by ReachH, February 17 2013 - 03:17 PM.