93 replies to this topic

[Akrium]

So we are running into an issue where burst dps is a bit high and is causing fights to end rather quickly now. Which is rather boring. I plan on going over some of the bigger burst mechs and how one might curb their over all burst. I warn you.. there is a ton of reading.

First I will go over some of the major culprits that help contribute to the current burst damage. Then i will go over some ideas on how to curb them and then toss some maths out there on what the changes would do. I will always be rounding down as unless it is a full damage loss you can live with less than 1 health, and I have lived with Zero once before. Lastly I will then show you comparable damage output from some consistent damage guns over the same time period roughly.

Note: All damage info is coming from the SK damage spread sheet. It may not be perfect but it is a good judge and we all should be happy they spend the time doing this for us. Also remember to scroll all the way to the right to see the current numbers.

The Culprits:

• Power Shot, currently does an additional 44.7% damage increase (rounding to 45% as that is more likely the real percent gain) also this will have it's own math section.
  
• The Detonator and HE nade, currently do 175 damage each.
  
• The EOC, currently it does 210 damage with a full charge.
  
• The KLA-Mirv, currently does 240 damage

The Modifications:

Power Shot: The Sharpshooter isn't doing the burst damage it is currently doing because of its weapons. But because of it's ability. Thus all we have to look at to curb the SS is to curb the ability down a bit. I am going to assume that in the majority of cases people are not going to get off two Sabot shots during PS so I will only be doing numbers showing a single Sabot shot.

Over the 3 second duration you can net 3 slugs (80 dmg) and 1 zoomed sabot (170 dmg). This will net you (3 * 80 + 170) = 410 base dmg; 410 * 1.45 = ~594 dmg and w/ 5% bullet dmg internal that is ~624 dmg depending on when percents are calculated.

That kills a stock and non-stock A classes outright. That leaves the stock B class with 51 armor. The stock C class will be left w/ 226 armor and in turret mode (30% dmg reduction) he would have ~358 armor left depending on when percents are calculated.

If we don't want the ability to outright kill a stock A class mech then the ability buff cannot exceed 410 * X = 499. Thus the percent gain would be 499 / 410 = ~21%
410 * 1.21 = ~496 damage.

But I would contend that some of the reduction of being burst killed should come from the mech being hit as well since the Sharp Shooter is also adding damage to increase his likely hood of doing a burst kill. Thus I feel that the ability being placed at 20% is still fitting w/ 5% internal option.
410 * 1.25 = ~512 damage.

An A class mech could still have a higher health gain than 512 damage if he didn't go for more damage himself. If he makes himself more of a glass cannon he has to accept he can die much faster.

So I feel PS being dropped from 45% damage bonus to 20% damage bonus would still be quite fitting when in conjunction with the 5% bonus from an internal.

Fully health fitted A class mech = 550 armor = 38 armor left after 3 seconds (previously dead)
Stock B = 163 armor (prev 51)
Stock C = 338/456 armor (prev 226/358)

It is still a burst damage, but it isn't quite as over the top as it is currently.

Detonator & HE Nade: A main primary to the majority of burst damage output is from one of these items combined with 2 other instant shots from weapons. The fact that an item does near the same damage as the TOW is quite scary. I have two ideas on where I'd like to see this weapon be dropped to. And they are 120 damage or 150 damage each from the 175 damage they were.

EOC: The only primary in the game that out damages almost every secondary in the game currently. The only one it does not is the new KLA-Mirv that people feel it does too much damage as well. The difference being 30 damage in total. The next closest burst primary weapon is the flak and the Bolt guns. Both of these weapons doing 120 damage each with their burst. I also view the EOC as a mine laying gun. As that is really part of what makes it unique. And this part will piss off a lot of people but I don't feel making the gun more dependent on direct hits is the proper way to go with this gun. It is a mine layer, that is the role of the gun.

I know the BSB tourny has shown that the flak has done better over all currently. But I find this cannot be solely judged on the tourny. As some people are better tacticians than others and used high ground to their advantage more. The EOC did do well in the tourny but just didn't place top 3. This could also be a combination of the GL vs the TOW as well.

So I propose the EOC be dropped in damage to be more in line with the more in line burst damage of the 2 other burst weapons. So I would suggest it get dropped to either 120 damage or 150 damage with a full charge.

The current way the damage is figured is two fold. It isn't just the same damage for stepping on the mines as it is for direct hitting someone with the mines. The direct hit is currently 5 damage per direct hit + 30 explosive damage per mine hit = 210 damage if all 6 mines land as direct hits on the mech. If you ran over the mines on the ground you would receive 0 damage per direct hit (as it was laying on the ground) + 30 explosive damage per mine stepped on = 180 damage for stepping on 6 placed mines.

The way I would view the 120 damage would be that it does not reward you for direct hits. Instead all damage would just be 20 explosive damage per mine hit. More in line with the fact it is a mine laying gun. The 150 damage option would allow that extra bonus damage for direct hitting someone with the current 5 extra damage per direct hit. This does reward better aim from a skill gun. This is part of the reason I have two values for the Det/HE nade reduction. If the EOC = 150 the HE/Det = 120 damage, if the EOC = 120 damage the HE/Det = 150 damage. I am currently leaning towards the EOC doing 150 damage.

Also with the change to the over all damage, to keep it's dps in line with the other guns the RoF would have to change from 1.5s reload to 1.1s reload for the 150 damage option. Thus it's dps at 75 dmg w/ 3 pucks that directly hit would be ~68 dps. This is very close to the 70 dps it currently is but also gets rid of the ungodly burst that the gun does. The charge time of 2 seconds would not change however. Thus it would take 3.1 seconds to get another fully charged EOC fired off.

KLA-Mirv: Currently is the highest burst damage weapon in the game. This weapon has a limited range of 90 meters and fires explosive shotgun shells or mini bombs. How ever you want to look at it. As many of the forum readers know I've been fighting about this weapon a lot lately. While I don't feel it is OP, I do feel it does need turned down a notch. Me and AJK both agree it does need toned down, and to what degree with both slightly differ. He suggested a 30 point drop and I suggest a 20 point drop, so in the sense of compromise I am going to look at a 25 point drop and show you where it all lands after all the other changes I have suggested as well. So the KLA-Mirv I feel should do 215 damage.

Another option I actually wouldn't mind seeing on this weapon is to make it's range less. 90 meters is actually in the mid-range combat zone. The SMC currently got a 30% buff in range and that puts it around 65 meters. I consider it a close to mid range weapon. Thus I wouldn't mind seeing the max range on the KLA-Mirv to changed to 65 meters. This would promote the switching of the KLA mains around more and promote more interesting play with the secondary on a whole.

The Maths:

I am going to go over how all the changes can be considered on an over all picture. This excludes the Power Shot ability as the SS is the only current burst mech that doesn't use the EOC to reach it's burst potential. And I am going to toss in the EOC + TOW combo even though there is no current mech that can do it. That doesn't mean we won't have one later though. Remember I also changed the RoF on the EOC from 1.5 to 1.1.

EOC = 120 dmg and Det/HE = 150 // (XXX) = Old Value

EOC + GL + Det/HE = 420 damage (535 dmg)
EOC + TOW + Det/HE = 455 damage (570 dmg)
EOC + Hellfire + Det/HE = 462 damage (577 dmg)
EOC + KLA-Mirv + Det/HE = 485 damage (625 dmg *this number look familiar to an ability I mentioned earlier)

As you can see with all the changes in place, the initial burst would not kill an A class mech. Even on the raider with the top damaging primary and the top damaging secondary. But you say, why did you label this section the EOC = 120 and the Det = 150 when your other option only switches the two. The damage would be the same. Correct! But the difference is then how your dps proceeds AFTER your initial burst.

A second round of each without the Det/He combo would be as follows:
*note a turret mode stock C class mech has roughly 1105 health.

EOC + GL + 420 = 690 dmg @ ~3 seconds (895 dmg)
EOC + TOW + 455 = 760 dmg @ 4 seconds (965 dmg)
EOC + Hellfire + 462 = 774 dmg @ ~4.5 seconds (979 dmg)
EOC + KLA-Mirv + 485 = 820 dmg @ ~4 seconds (1075 dmg)

So as you see, a stock C class mech does not get gibbed in 4 seconds from a burst rush. And if the C class is in turret mode on point, he will live with quite a good chuck of health left.

EOC = 150 dmg and Det/HE = 120 @ the second burst:
Since we know the initial damage is the same either way, I am skipping reporting those numbers. And still note that the stock turret mode C class mech has roughly 1105 health.

EOC + GL + 420 = 720 dmg @ ~3 seconds
EOC + TOW + 455 = 790 dmg @ 4 seconds
EOC + Hellfire + 462 = 804 dmg @ ~4.5 seconds
EOC + KLA-Mirv + 485 = 850 dmg @ ~4 seconds

Similar to my feelings on the SS ability of Power Shot, I feel it is also on the job of the mech to negate him being burst down fast. Thus at 850, it is all the C class mech would have to do is add 1/2% to not be burst that quickly. And in fact you can get a 10% bonus through internals and the tree. That would put a C class tanked mech up to 935 health standing and roughly 1215 health while in turret mode.

Now you are going to say.. holy fuzzy bunny that is only 4 seconds!! That is still too much!

The Constant damage weapons:

Calm down. Let me show you the numbers now from weapons that are not burst damage with the total changes as well, over the same time frame. This is with the Det/HE being at 120 dmg. So add 55 damage to all the numbers to know the current in game values.

AR = 79.441 dps
79.441 * 3 = ~238 dmg
238 + 2*GL + Det/HE = 658 dmg @ 3 seconds
79.441 * 4 = ~317 dmg
317 + 2*TOW + Det/HE = 807 dmg @ 4 seconds
79.441 * 4.5 = ~357 dmg
357 + 2*Hellfires + Det/HE = 861 dmg @ 4.5 seconds

SMC = 86.96 dps
86.96 * 3 = 260 dmg
260 + 2*GL + Det/HE = 680 dmg @ 3 seconds
86.96 * 4 = 347 dmg
347 + 2*TOW + Det/HE = 837 dmg @ 4 seconds
86.96 * 4.5 = ~391 dmg
391 + 2*Hellfire + Det/HE = 895 dmg @ 4.5 seconds

Vulcan = 98.364 dps
98.364 * 3 = ~295 dmg
295 * 2*GL + Det/HE = 715 dmg @ 3 seconds
98.364 * 4 = ~393 dmg
393 + 2*TOW + Det/HE = 883 dmg @ 4 seconds
98.364 * 4.5 = ~442 dmg
442 + 2*Hellfires + Det/HE = 946 dmg @ 4.5 seconds

So if we are to change up the highest burst weapon to 150 damage on a full charge, it would turn burst damage into something that it is meant for. To hit and then duck behind cover to negate constant damage back at you. Thus constant damage should out dps burst dmg.

So lets look at some over all dps to weapons.
Hellfires = 42
TOW = 46
GL = 50
New KLA-Mirv = 53 *this is why I think it could be at 220 dmg. Which would put it at 55 dps, and have it feel better dps than the GL similar as it is to the TOW.
Sabot (zoomed) = 56 *actually this may be a bit too high for my liking but rarely do SS get to take advantage of this.
KLA-Mirv = 60
New EOC = 68
EOC = 70
Heat = 73
AR = 79
SMC = 86
Vulcan = 98
Flak = 98

I have a feeling the Bolter and ReFlak actually out dps the EOC, but they do not provide the burst or utility the EOC does. I also have no numbers on their dps yet.

Summary:

I find my fixes help to relieve some of the ungodly burst dps that currently is plaguing this game while still maintaining it's ability to keep up viable dps. I doubt most of you will agree with my thinking. But it is one way I figured out that could in fact help the game on a whole feel better. Also if anything of my math is off, please feel free to correct me.

Also go here to vote on increasing TTK on a whole. It is uservoice page set up by [HWK]TJ for us to vote on important changes we would like to see. Please vote for other options you are interested in and or contribute more ideas.

Edited by Akrium, March 10 2013 - 11:08 AM.

[DeVact]

Props for actually taking the time and doing the math!

Your solutions sound very well thought through and I would love to see a dev comment on this. TTK needs to go down again and this seems to have the desired effect (in theory). I'd definitely vote for these changes!

[DM30]

I agree with a lot of the things you said in this post, and definitely with the overall sentiment of extending the time of battles to make them more interesting. On the EOC though, at first I was a little skeptical of nerfing it's damage since before now it was widely considered to be just a bad gun overall and I was worried that nerfing it would return it to that state, but when you combine it with the other reductions to the other burst weapons like you proposed and the ROF increase it didn't seem so bad. I would like to note, though, that if you're increasing the ROF and decreasing the damage that the heat generation will need to be reduced more, otherwise the overheating time on it would hurt it's usefulness quite a bit as I see it. Otherwise, though, kudos for the well-thought out proposal.

[Akrium]

I keep noticing spelling errors on my part.. I guess I can only go over it so many times and not miss things. Also I meant to add that the heat would also need adjusted on the EOC due to it firing more often. The current heat level feels very nice and I wouldn't want to change that.

Also please vote on raising TTK here. It is the usevoice link that TJ set up for us to vote on what is important to us in the game currently.

Also see what other things you may want to vote for as well if you have not see it yet.


/edit: ugh.. didn't get out my heat edit before someone noticed.. haha

Edited by Akrium, March 10 2013 - 09:08 AM.

[Rei]

I'm for nerfing the burst in the game while keeping the DPS up, thank you for considering this.

This is how I feel about your choices:

Power Shot: I agree with this. Around 20% feels good and still is a noticeable chunk of damage.
Deto + HE: HE shouldn't be nerfed so much, it's pretty tough to hit as it is so you should feel like you get a big reward off of it. Either that or give it a really low cooldown if you would reduce the damage. The Detonator is a whole beast by itself. It's an extra TOW that can be destroyed, but still really good. I'm cool with a damage nerf on this, it's too much.
EOC: I'm actually not sure about nerfing this. The numbers are one thing, but then take into account the projectile speed and how often they're going to hit. This gun isn't as easy to hit as the flak or really any other gun. It flies straight as a projectile, if one hits it's 35 damage whoopee. If they step on one it's 30. If you give it the damage nerf, they'll be underwhelming again and I would probably just go back to HEAT (though heat is still good). The problem with your math is that you're assuming people will hit every shot of this weapon every time. That never happens in a match which is part of the balancing aspect of this gun doing so much damage. I'm sure as time goes on, people will get used to the EOC and how to play around it. I don't think it's really that much of an issue right now, just the burst is crazy on an opponent standing still (their fault).
KLA-MIRV: I think there are two ways about balancing this weapon. Damage nerfs and spread increase. I personally prefer to just increase the spread by about 100%-200%. Make it so people can't get all of the hits 90 meters away, make it so they must be around 30 meters or so to hit the full damage. It has a long cooldown too so people can have time to retaliate if they live. Remember that a Raider has to risk getting in extremely close to an opponent, especially in a team mode (which is every mode, but deathmatch). If you were to keep the spread the same, definitely nerf the damage though.

Thank you for writing up this post Akrium, the amount of dedication you put into it is overwhelming. This is what I think more beta testers need to do. +1

Edited by Rei, March 10 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[Akrium]

I knew my views on the EOC are really not going to jive with a lot of people. But what makes the gun unique and interesting is it's ability to lay mines. Not the silly high burst potential of the gun.

If anything my idea of lowering the RoF makes missing less painful because you will get to use it again faster. Does this mean it will turn into a mine laying gun_ Yeah.. but that is far better than it being a gun with the potential to do the second highest burst in the game and it is a primary weapon. Harder to land or not, that is not something we should be working with. People will learn to do well with it and that damage potential will hit more often. This is why it is broken. If anything the BSB tourny did show how the infiltrator can take advantage of his cloak and land a full volley on someone. And not just your avg joes but people that are good too.

I've also come to learn that the KLA-Mirv is actually a 3.75s reload. Thus turning it from a 60 dps weapon I thought it was into a 64 dps weapon. That is a bit high.. if it is to remain at 3.75 seconds to reload I think it should be 201-203 dmg instead of 240. The 215 dmg was based on the idea that it was functioning at a 4 second reload timer.

I've also had ppl asking me why I am nerfing the HE nade since it is considered fuzzy bunny currently. Ironically that isn't the case. It has a higher dps than the Det. It has a reduced reuse time for the loss in utility of blowing mid air or long range. Also people need to remember that the HE nade can be charged to make it shoot farther and faster.  How many of you currently use the Det, the HE nade could be used just as easily. Most ppl use it almost point blank to not give the person time to dodge. The HE nade works just as well in those situations.

Also if the det was nerfed to 120 while the HE nade stayed at 175. People would just switch back to using the HE nade. People did use it well back when people refused to use the emp because of how broken it was at the time. I have zero doubts people would quickly pick up the HE nade again.

[ShadowWarg]

Rei is correct that the travel speed and the time between shots offsets the the damage delivered, so the chances of landing a full charge, though not impossible, quite slim. The chance of a target landing on a all of mines is even slimmer. On direct fire I'm guessing about 1-3 puck miss on average of a full charge

For the EOC, what about (and I know these numbers are going to sound ) 22 or 25 for the mine damage and 3 for the direct hit.

mines + Direct  = Total
22 (132) + 3 (18) = 150
-1 puck   = 125
-2 pucks = 100
-3 pucks = 75

25 (150) + 3 (18) = 168
-1 puck   = 140
-2 pucks = 112
-3 pucks = 84

The higher mine damage helps the gun focus as a mine layer while a direct hit is more of a bonus for landing direct hits rather then a reward.

There is also 25 (150) + 5(30) = 180
-1 puck   = 150
-2 pucks = 120
-3 pucks = 90

Edited by ShadowWarg, March 10 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[KaszaWspraju]

Quote

So I propose the EOC be dropped in damage to be more in line with the more in line burst damage of the 2 other burst weapons. So I would suggest it get dropped to either 120 damage or 150 damage with a full charge.

You left out the fact that in the real world, they stuffed 6 placed EOC straight into a moving target a very difficult task. So drastic reduction in damage, not work in the game.

Quote

ability to lay mines

Ability to lay mines, in most cases, miss a side effect, the present case is no much use in this game to conscious lay placed EOC. If the fuse is not the time, but the movement, I would see it differently.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, March 10 2013 - 11:19 AM.

[v009]

Great ideas Akrium. It would be good if the devs could provide an unranked server  with some of these changes to test our with people in an organised scrim.

Powershot: I agree with most parts of it but, will the ability duration still be 3 seconds. If it is then if you miss a sabot it's a waste of powershot and also if it's mid/close range battle your screwed but it will be interesting
Also you haven't factored that you will lose 3.5% armour for using the Armour piercing round internal. Yes you can get it back with the 3.5% optimisation point but not everyone is going to have that i.e. me.

Det/HE: Agree with Rei's point on this.

KLA-MIRV: I don't mind having the damage of this weapon changed between 200-215 and range of <60 metres. I have noticed that it's not the best way to engage someone with this weapon form when engaging enemy near it's max range.
Also, everyone is complaining about raiders but they have to close on the enemy to do have the advantage on the enemy otherwise the enemy has the advantage. Even with the ability they still have to beware of getting damage done to them whilst closing the enemy down to its effective range. As the weapons have short range to do its full max damage.

EOC: If the damage is reduced, as some guys have pointed out already. The heat (decrease), projectile speed, RoF(as you have pointed out) would have to be increased. Also, Pika a boo EOC is hard to land all the pucks on the enemy as you give them a LoS to shoot you at longer than other burst weapons like flak. If EOC becomes more of a mine laying weapon then you can just try to change the area you are fighting to avoid the mines damaging you and have to detonate on movement rather than time and Kasza has pointed out.

Getting Alpha striked is there own fault for not being on the look out or repairing in bad places.


Apology in advance if there are any grammar mistakes and bad construction on the points.

[v009]

Oh, also. Shadowwarg. Aren't the numbers meant to be higher with more pucks_

Edited by v009, March 10 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[TheLostVikings]

v009, on March 10 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Oh, also. Shadowwarg. Aren't the numbers meant to be higher with more pucks_

Those number are for the number of pucks missing, i.e. if you miss 3 of the 6 pucks in a charged shot you only get 90 dmg instead of 180.

[ShadowWarg]

TheLostVikings, on March 10 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

v009, on March 10 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

Oh, also. Shadowwarg. Aren't the numbers meant to be higher with more pucks_

Those number are for the number of pucks missing, i.e. if you miss 3 of the 6 pucks in a charged shot you only get 90 dmg instead of 180.

Vikings has the idea.

v009, on March 10 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Great ideas Akrium. It would be good if the devs could provide an unranked server  with some of these changes to test our with people in an organised scrim.

Can they do that_ Make a test server with values and gameplay tweaks that are separate from the main game_

[Sylhiri]

ShadowWarg, on March 10 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Can they do that_ Make a test server with values and gameplay tweaks that are separate from the main game_

I think they can make servers with x amount of players and can make it unranked, but i'm not a dev so I'm kinda guessing.

Edited by Sylhiri, March 10 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[ShadowWarg]

Sylhiri, on March 10 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

ShadowWarg, on March 10 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Can they do that_ Make a test server with values and gameplay tweaks that are separate from the main game_

I think they can make servers with x amount of players and can make it unranked, but i'm not a dev so I'm kinda guessing.

But can that sever have changes that are separate from the main game_ i.e flak cannon that does 400 points of damage in the server while in the actually game its the regular 120.

[v009]

Yeah. Thanks for correcting me. I just didn't read well D:
I was thinking maybe they can have a server unranked for some people to test the weapons for balancing. Closed server with password. Kinda like a closed testing but with players instead of the devs doing it.

[OdinTheWise]

I honestly believe that most of the weapons are very close to where they should be, the SS and the EOC does need to be addressed, but I think the raider's MIRV I think is fine as is. At 90 meters, where I normally would score a direct hit with a tow, I rarely hit all my MIRV shots.  If any nerf is done, it should be only to the spread and only by 2-3% would be needed to reign in the MIRV. But mostly with the raider, it has been down to the player being good with it.

[v009]

OdinTheWise, on March 10 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

I honestly believe that most of the weapons are very close to where they should be, the SS and the EOC does need to be addressed, but I think the raider's MIRV I think is fine as is. At 90 meters, where I normally would score a direct hit with a tow, I rarely hit all my MIRV shots.  If any nerf is done, it should be only to the spread and only by 2-3% would be needed to reign in the MIRV. But mostly with the raider, it has been down to the player being good with it.

I agree. Over 45 metres you won't always connect all the MIRV shots (that's what I'm experiencing) Also, T32 BOLT, you need to be so close to the enemy to do the full 120 damage. The problem I have been experiencing while piloting raider is that when your mid range you have such a disadvantage to any mech. Yes, its got Blitz ability but you can't use it when on cooldown.

[ShadowWarg]

With all the complaints on the forums about the MIRV mode, its obvious that it will get a nerf in the next patch or 2.

Raider off topic comment:

Spoiler

v009, on March 10 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

...
Also, T32 BOLT, you need to be so close to the enemy to do the full 120 damage.
...
The problem I have been experiencing while piloting raider is that when your mid range you have such a disadvantage to any mech. Yes, its got Blitz ability but you can't use it when on cooldown.

T32 Bolt: http://community.pla...fix-suggestion/

The blitz to me feels like a double edge sword. Its quick burst of speed kind of throws me off and I have to try to adjust my movements in order to get my target (fail often). I cant tell you how many times I have over shot the person I was blitzing only to blow up as a result.

Edited by ShadowWarg, March 10 2013 - 06:47 PM.

[Akrium]

OdinTheWise, on March 10 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

I honestly believe that most of the weapons are very close to where they should be, the SS and the EOC does need to be addressed, but I think the raider's MIRV I think is fine as is. At 90 meters, where I normally would score a direct hit with a tow, I rarely hit all my MIRV shots.  If any nerf is done, it should be only to the spread and only by 2-3% would be needed to reign in the MIRV. But mostly with the raider, it has been down to the player being good with it.

The problem with the mirv as it stands is that it front loads the damage a bit too high. It is a game changing gun tbh.. one second you feel healthy.. the next you are an inch from your life. And being that it is a cqc weapon it makes it VERY hard to dodge.

After talking with some other people about the Mirv, I wouldn't mind seeing it turn into a 3 second weapon (the GL reload timer) and it do something more along the lines of 165-180 dmg per shot.



Also on the EOC I suggest at 150 dmg per burst with the faster RoF and lower heat.

The kentic dmg could still be 5 and the mine dmg be 20, or it could be 10/15. Depending on what the devs feel the gun's main purpose should be. Mine layer or direct dmg.

[145154151164145]

Easy fix for eoc. Reduce direct hit damage greatly around 30% and mine damage slightly, possibly around 10%, but increase the mines detonation trigger AOE and slightly increase explosion radius.  As it is now the mines detection AOE, though buffed, is still very small and that's why direct hits are more beneficial as it is guaranteed damage.  It also wouldn't hurt to put a subtle arc in its flight path (something like the KLA grenade)  so that the mines can actually fall on the ground at very distant ranges instead of flying straight over terrain.

Edited by 145154151164145, March 11 2013 - 09:02 PM.