199 replies to this topic

[MajorMojo]

The term pubstomp implies that an advanced player is purposely ruining the fun of less experienced players. Should you do that_ No.

Should advanced players be able to get in a game without waiting 10 minutes or more in an empty lobby_ Yes.

I think advanced players should be kept out of beginner servers but should be able to get into “medium” servers.  I think most “medium” players can handle a little competition and if they get frustrated they can leave and find another match because there will be more options at that skill level.  In other words beginner servers have a MMR ceiling but no floor, medium servers have an MMR floor but no ceiling, and advanced servers have a higher MMR floor but no ceiling.

When advanced players are “playing down” they should try to make things as fair as possible by switching teams, etc.  I really only get frustrated when one team has either more players or a clear skill advantage and no one will switch to the weaker team.

This is coming from a player that hasn’t cracked 1600 MMR yet.  I can end up in the top three on the scoreboard or near the bottom depending on the level of competition and I am OK with that.

[Gookywun]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 15 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Pubstomping is something that will happen no matter how big or small the population. It is a fact of multiplayer gaming.

I do it myself, not because I want to, but because I'm forced to due to the games MM system and a small population. It's not particularly fun for me, and probably even less fun for the others in the match.

Somebody understands. Good to hear.

[z0mbie]

Just play the game....Sometimes you eat the Bar,  sometimes the Bar eats you.

[Beemann]

I think the problem is the current match finding system
MM is there to bring balanced matches, server browser is there to bring quick matches
Right now neither of them really exist, we've got a quickplay option that sorts you into rank-locked matches on the server browser, and it can be bypassed anyway
Thing is, if people cant use either and cant/wont abuse the gaps in the system, they'll just go play something else

Edited by Beemann, March 15 2013 - 12:35 PM.

[RentAKnight]

Gookywun, on March 15 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 15 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Pubstomping is something that will happen no matter how big or small the population. It is a fact of multiplayer gaming.

I do it myself, not because I want to, but because I'm forced to due to the games MM system and a small population. It's not particularly fun for me, and probably even less fun for the others in the match.

Somebody understands. Good to hear.

After all that time of your clan mates defending that you aren't a pub stomper you go and post something like this in the public domain.  Please show this to your clanmates.

We can agree to disagree about whether pub stomping has a place in a game.

[RedVan]

Sadly, I've found even in high MMR games, I still wind up pub stomping.  For some people, it's inevitable.

Its simply a fact of FPS games that will always happen no matter what you try to do to stop it.

[AsianJoyKiller]

RentAKnight, on March 15 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Gookywun, on March 15 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 15 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Pubstomping is something that will happen no matter how big or small the population. It is a fact of multiplayer gaming.

I do it myself, not because I want to, but because I'm forced to due to the games MM system and a small population. It's not particularly fun for me, and probably even less fun for the others in the match.

Somebody understands. Good to hear.

After all that time of your clan mates defending that you aren't a pub stomper you go and post something like this in the public domain.  Please show this to your clanmates.

We can agree to disagree about whether pub stomping has a place in a game.

There's a difference between INTENTIONALLY pubstomping, and being forced into situations where you end up pubstomping.

[Houruck]

Nomen est omen
"Protect the weak, defenseless, helpless, and fight for the general welfare of all"

I appreciate this RentAKnight, but I need to agree with AJK and Gooky.

[Kaelek]

AJK Don't even bother trying to explain it to RAK, he doesn't care that it ruins the game for skilled players. Guess I might start joining games are letting people kill me without fighting back so I can play in a decent amount of games again.

[RentAKnight]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 15 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

RentAKnight, on March 15 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Gookywun, on March 15 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 15 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Pubstomping is something that will happen no matter how big or small the population. It is a fact of multiplayer gaming.

I do it myself, not because I want to, but because I'm forced to due to the games MM system and a small population. It's not particularly fun for me, and probably even less fun for the others in the match.

Somebody understands. Good to hear.

After all that time of your clan mates defending that you aren't a pub stomper you go and post something like this in the public domain.  Please show this to your clanmates.

We can agree to disagree about whether pub stomping has a place in a game.

There's a difference between INTENTIONALLY pubstomping, and being forced into situations where you end up pubstomping.

It's still within a players control.  You make that choice.  Once inside the game you can choose to play an UP mech or not take things seriously.  I have a real issue with the players that strive for a 50-0 score against obviously less skilled opponents.  The honor system doesn't work.  Before Hawken can become successfull it needs a mechanism to insure a healthy new-player population.  The current implementation is doing that.

A month of only being able to play at prime time while all the new players figure out how the game works is fine by me.

Seeing a server list full of new players, and knowing that they aren't getting stomped into the ground makes me really happy.  It gives me hope that this game might succeed.

The better players will find their ways to the top.  Just have some patience.

Edited by RentAKnight, March 15 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

RentAKnight, on March 15 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

It's still within a players control.  You make that choice.  Once inside the game you can choose to play an UP mech or not take things seriously.

And who says I don't_
I play the game how I find if fun.

[flimsy]

The poll is poorly phrased.

The bottom line is that the current system is going to drive the best players out of the game.

[Kaelek]

The main problem is that there are obviously fewer skilled players than below average and average players because the latter constitute the vast majority of players. So singling out the players on the top of the pyramid gives advanced players a very small pool of people to play with in a game that already has a population problem. Like I said before though I don't want to play with people who are far below my skill level but I think that average players can handle a few skilled players in their games. Also, in a battle where you are outnumbered, it makes very little difference what the other players skill level are.

[Kaelek]

The main problem is that there are obviously fewer skilled players than below average and average players because the latter constitute the vast majority of players. So singling out the players on the top of the pyramid gives advanced players a very small pool of people to play with in a game that already has a population problem. Like I said before though I don't want to play with people who are far below my skill level but I think that average players can handle a few skilled players in their games. Also, in a battle where you are outnumbered, it makes very little difference what the other players skill level are. When I first started this game I was pretty bad at it, and the more I played, the more skills I learned. I was not separated from anyone and I was able to overcome this and become pretty good at the game. But now that I have progressed to being a somewhat skilled player, I am being isolated from everyone else. If this keeps up as is, all the decent players are going to stop playing and it's going to be a game for noobs only I guess...

[RentAKnight]

Kaelek, on March 15 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

If this keeps up as is, all the decent players are going to stop playing and it's going to be a game for noobs only I guess...

In a month the average players will have turned into advanced players and the community will grow as a whole.  Those top players who didn't want to stick around because they could only play during prime time will be replaced.  The QQ really doesn't seem that wide spread to me, and full servers of new players looks great for the longevity of the game (especially when you can be confident they aren't getting stomped into the ground by vets).  

Go create a smurf account if you REALLY must play right now.

Edited by RentAKnight, March 15 2013 - 01:27 PM.

[RedVan]

RentAKnight, on March 15 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Kaelek, on March 15 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

If this keeps up as is, all the decent players are going to stop playing and it's going to be a game for noobs only I guess...

In a month the average players will have turned into advanced players and the community will grow as a whole.  Those top players who didn't want to stick around because they could only play during prime time will be replaced.  The QQ really doesn't seem that wide spread to me, and full servers of new players looks great for the longevity of the game (especially when you can be confident they aren't getting stomped into the ground by vets).  

Go create a smurf account if you REALLY must play right now.

The QQ isn't wide spread because the upper tier, naturally, is small.

As I've said before, in the old days, FPS games didn't have matchmaking, they didn't have server segregation, and they still succeeded, and players still got better even while getting stomped by better players.  The longevity of the game will not change if they totally get rid of the MMR.  I guarantee it.

[Kaelek]

So, since you suck, you should be able to play whenever you want but I can only play for two hours a day because I'm good_ I'm not going to be good for long if I can only play at certain hours of the day... and did you ever think that some people might not be ABLE to play during prime time_ So I guess they shouldn't be able to play at all, right_ And as redvan said, older fps didn't even have MMR at all, and they seemed to do alright. Also, aren't the new players looking for instant gratification_ They don't want to be killed so they can't play with anymore that is better than they are.... sounds stupid to me but whatever.

Edited by Kaelek, March 15 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[RentAKnight]

Kaelek, on March 15 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Also, aren't the new players looking for instant gratification_ They don't want to be killed so they can't play with anymore that is better than they are.... sounds stupid to me but whatever.

The players that do well will have their MMR increase, the players that do poorly will decrease.  Those players that constantly increase will find their way into your empty server.

Just have some patience.  Make a smurf account in the mean time and go pub stomp to your little hearts content.

The game is still in beta.  You could argue that they are still testing their MM system and server browser.

It's been less than 24 hours and you guys are crying like children.

Edited by RentAKnight, March 15 2013 - 01:39 PM.

[Coot]

RedVan, on March 15 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

RentAKnight, on March 15 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

Kaelek, on March 15 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

If this keeps up as is, all the decent players are going to stop playing and it's going to be a game for noobs only I guess...

In a month the average players will have turned into advanced players and the community will grow as a whole.  Those top players who didn't want to stick around because they could only play during prime time will be replaced.  The QQ really doesn't seem that wide spread to me, and full servers of new players looks great for the longevity of the game (especially when you can be confident they aren't getting stomped into the ground by vets).  

Go create a smurf account if you REALLY must play right now.

The QQ isn't wide spread because the upper tier, naturally, is small.

As I've said before, in the old days, FPS games didn't have matchmaking, they didn't have server segregation, and they still succeeded, and players still got better even while getting stomped by better players.  The longevity of the game will not change if they totally get rid of the MMR.  I guarantee it.

Ya back in the OLD days. This is 2013, alot has changed in 10+ years when we all played HL mods and quake. People dealt with getting stomped or just messing around cause that's all there was.

Now we have alot of games with matchmaking so people can have an enjoyable experience. The amount of sh*t talk I get sometimes when I  just join a random server is safe to say during the match they didn't have an enjoyable experience, and I'm sure I'm not the only one to get them.

This is the right step to keeping players interested. Getting curb stomped every game they'll just go somewhere else where they can get a fair and balanced game.

Times have changed and games have to accommodate.

[Kaelek]

So as times change, I guess it means the death of hardcore gamers. So because the times have changed, you should now suck at all the games you play, so that you can have a more enjoyable experience. If you somehow start to get too good at a game... you better quit because it's unfair to all the other players that just want to have a pleasant experience. Please what a crock of ****.

Edit: And to answer RAK: I don't think I should have to create a smurf account to play. I'd rather not play at all.

Edited by Kaelek, March 15 2013 - 01:49 PM.