367 replies to this topic

[Aptest]

Since the last patch players got a little bit of MC to spend. A lot of them chose to spend it on new torsos. I've so far seen two sharpshooters with a raider's body, one with a fred's body, a raider with a sharpshooter's body, and a host of techs with reaper bodies. A swapped body mech is present in about 30% of the games.

this makes target identification hell for me. Yes there's this little symbol they added, but the primary way for me to see who im dealing with is still to look at the model. This adds a burden of knowledge to the game because in order to recognize the correct strategy to approach an opponent I need to "read the fine print". Which sucks.

I'm certain that this is a problem.

[Akrium]

They added in the UI icons for the abilities as ways to tell the difference.

Otherwise this is a f2p game that makes money on selling skins. Going to have to get past it. Typically I can know what a mech is by the sounds i had been hearing, the weapons i see, or the sounds they make when he shoots at me. Toss on the icon now and i know what I am fighting without having to do any of that anymore. Granted I still do.. but nonetheless it is much easier to tell who is what now.

I don't really find it a problem.

[ShadowWarg]

Yea what akrium said. I learned to stop relying on the look of the body a long time ago.

[SmirkingRevenge]

I'd be learning to interpret those symbols and deal with it.  I'm a sharpshooter with an assault body, because I think it looks just plain cool - got nothing to do with hiding who I really am

Body identification throws you off initially, but all it takes is one look at the name, and one press of the 'tab' button to bring up the score screen to see who you're up against.  TBH I think it's a good thing you can throw in potential confusion, even if it is only for 1 kill until the opponent figures out what's going on.

Ain't going to change anytime soon, and I really hope it never even gets considered.  As Akrium said, F2P game, I'm also supporting the devs coz I want to see this game succeed.

Spoonful of Concrete sunshine

[Guiotine]

https://community.pl...ch/#entry259701

[tman7919]

I can usually identify the weapons even with 1280  x 720 resolution on. Plus my mechs love to look pretty. My Bruiser has Raider body and feet. Also has pixel tan camo.

[Titanus]

Aptest, on April 23 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Since the last patch players got a little bit of MC to spend. A lot of them chose to spend it on new torsos. I've so far seen two sharpshooters with a raider's body, one with a fred's body, a raider with a sharpshooter's body, and a host of techs with reaper bodies. A swapped body mech is present in about 30% of the games.

this makes target identification hell for me. Yes there's this little symbol they added, but the primary way for me to see who im dealing with is still to look at the model. This adds a burden of knowledge to the game because in order to recognize the correct strategy to approach an opponent I need to "read the fine print". Which sucks.

I'm certain that this is a problem.

i dont like how that makes it harder to identify the mech, therefor get rid of it since it changes game play

[YellerBill]

It's a perfectly legitimate thing to do and I don't honestly get why people have such a hard time telling mechs apart. I'm always too busy checking the icon next to their name and then shooting to notice what chassis they're running.

Edit: That said, I do think mechs should be forced to use their default chassis in competitive games, but that's different.

Edited by YellerBill, April 23 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[Moralidad]

It doesn't make anything harder. I always look at the symbols especially classes as the assault, bruiser and raider seem a bit similar to me, and it helps out alot in middle of the action, I'm never caught by offguard but a mech torso swap always makes me a bit surprised.

All my have a mishmash of parts, I try to keep the torso on some mechs, I swap other bodies like the sharpshooter because it looks like a PT Crusier, or the tech to either an infiltrator look or a reaper look depending on the weapon setup.

[Teljaxx]

I have never had a problem with torso swapping. For one thing, it is the cheapest way to make your mech look quite a bit different by only swapping one part. And I usually just laugh at the people that try to use it as a disguise. If you make your Sharpshooter look like Fred, I am going to know something is up when I get hit by a Sabot shot from you from across the map, and then your disguise is blown. Sure, you may be able to catch a few newbies this way, but even then probably not for long. And anyone who pays attention to the class icon, or checks the scoreboard will most likely not fall for this at all.

[Aptest]

Akrium, on April 23 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

They added in the UI icons for the abilities as ways to tell the difference.

Otherwise this is a f2p game that makes money on selling skins. Going to have to get past it. Typically I can know what a mech is by the sounds i had been hearing, the weapons i see, or the sounds they make when he shoots at me. Toss on the icon now and i know what I am fighting without having to do any of that anymore. Granted I still do.. but nonetheless it is much easier to tell who is what now.

I don't really find it a problem.

The problem for me is not that there are skins. It's that the enemy Ezreal looks like Ashe. You don't purcahses a body "for a sharpshooter" - you purchase one for a raider or an assault. You guys have learnt to "rely on fine print" to make your identification. which is a good thing and shows a level of skill I do not posses. But it's still a factor that takes away from the game because it requires you to have a level of discerning that isn't relevant to gameplay.

[Guiotine]

Aptest, on April 23 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Akrium, on April 23 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

They added in the UI icons for the abilities as ways to tell the difference.

Otherwise this is a f2p game that makes money on selling skins. Going to have to get past it. Typically I can know what a mech is by the sounds i had been hearing, the weapons i see, or the sounds they make when he shoots at me. Toss on the icon now and i know what I am fighting without having to do any of that anymore. Granted I still do.. but nonetheless it is much easier to tell who is what now.

I don't really find it a problem.

The problem for me is not that there are skins. It's that the enemy Ezreal looks like Ashe. You don't purcahses a body "for a sharpshooter" - you purchase one for a raider or an assault. You guys have learnt to "rely on fine print" to make your identification. which is a good thing and shows a level of skill I do not posses. But it's still a factor that takes away from the game because it requires you to have a level of discerning that isn't relevant to gameplay.

I consider knowing other mech's abilities to be pretty relevant to gameplay. You don't try to run from a Raider or a Scout because you know they both have abilities that can outrun you. You stay out of sight from an SS because you know PS will destroy you. That's a little relevant to gameplay, and knowing what each mech can do is important. Personally, the ability icon is the first thing I see, and after I determine what mech it is, I choose how I engage. That only takes an instant, and it really isn't that big of a deal.

[Beemann]

Guiotine, on April 24 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

I consider knowing other mech's abilities to be pretty relevant to gameplay. You don't try to run from a Raider or a Scout because you know they both have abilities that can outrun you. You stay out of sight from an SS because you know PS will destroy you. That's a little relevant to gameplay, and knowing what each mech can do is important. Personally, the ability icon is the first thing I see, and after I determine what mech it is, I choose how I engage. That only takes an instant, and it really isn't that big of a deal.

Are we forgetting the oft repeated complaint that Hawken's text is small and blurry for many people_ Or the fact that at the very least, the pre-identification phase gives an advantage to the mech that bodyswaps_
Even with those aside, silhouette is a much better identifier than a small ability icon next to the pilot's name, and bodyswaps aren't the only monetization option, nor is it necessary for the cosmetic option to simply involve taking parts from other mechs

[Nept]

Beemann, on April 24 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

Are we forgetting the oft repeated complaint that Hawken's text is small and blurry for many people_ Or the fact that at the very least, the pre-identification phase gives an advantage to the mech that bodyswaps_
Even with those aside, silhouette is a much better identifier than a small ability icon next to the pilot's name, and bodyswaps aren't the only monetization option, nor is it necessary for the cosmetic option to simply involve taking parts from other mechs

I find that the icons are sufficient.  While silhouettes may be better identifiers at first, players quickly learn to mind the icons; realistically speaking, there's no difference after a couple maps' experience.  And while body swaps aren't the only monetization option, they probably rank amongst the most popular/significant ones.  Amongst my team, almost everyone has spent money changing chassis types and skins because some designs aren't to our tastes (I find the sharpshooter torso particularly . . . ungainly).

It's also unrealistic to expect different body types specific to each class.  Personally, I'd much rather the developers focus their design and modeling talent elsewhere.  Perhaps if they find themselves with a complete game and time to spare, they could start looking at those sorts of superfluous options.

What about the "small and blurry text"_ The simpler solution is to provide different text/icon size options.  They might also consider reworking some icons to ensure ease of recognition . . . but I can't think of any I've had trouble identifying.

Edited by Nept, April 24 2013 - 05:00 AM.

[Frouste]

I think the question that should be asked here is a big conundrum.

Do we allow players to customize their mecha, and remove the element of surprise_
or...
Do we lock the players in the default model of the mecha_

[angryhampster]

I got a paintjob.

[Dreizehn]

I'm not to fussed. I'll get used to the UI Icons eventually. A lot of the time the UI icon is what i see before the mech itself anyway.

And getting rid of mech torso swapping the way it is now is kinda unrealistic an expectation to have. I suppose it might have been a good idea to have mechs keep their torso and torso customization just add different doodads on that torso for an appearance change - but probably too late for that.

[fo_diggity]

I just wish there was an icon-to-mech cheat sheet I could print out and hang next to my monitor. Still getting used to the mechs and I'm not as familiar with the icons.

[Beemann]

Nept, on April 24 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

I find that the icons are sufficient.  While silhouettes may be better identifiers at first, players quickly learn to mind the icons; realistically speaking, there's no difference after a couple maps' experience.  And while body swaps aren't the only monetization option, they probably rank amongst the most popular/significant ones.  Amongst my team, almost everyone has spent money changing chassis types and skins because some designs aren't to our tastes (I find the sharpshooter torso particularly . . . ungainly).

Anecdotes on top of anecdotes. Suggesting that you don't find there to be a difference between silhouettes and ability markers isn't really relevant to the more global problem of people still having the same issues they did pre-patch. Additionally, nothing stops ADH from having chassis changes that aren't large silhouette changes

Nept, on April 24 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

It's also unrealistic to expect different body types specific to each class.  Personally, I'd much rather the developers focus their design and modeling talent elsewhere.  Perhaps if they find themselves with a complete game and time to spare, they could start looking at those sorts of superfluous options.

You mean like the kind of cosmetic options they have in League/SMNC/Dota/BLC/Tribes/etc_ Doing what most other games already do is unrealistic_ Additionally, you shouldn't have the same people working on cosmetic options, balance and level design all at once. Creating cosmetics shouldn't take away from the fixes the game needs, or the content creation they're already working on

Nept, on April 24 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

What about the "small and blurry text"_ The simpler solution is to provide different text/icon size options.  They might also consider reworking some icons to ensure ease of recognition . . . but I can't think of any I've had trouble identifying.

The simplest solution is just to create recognizable silhouettes, especially since you're minimizing hud clutter

[Xuande]

Aptest, on April 23 2013 - 11:44 PM, said:

Akrium, on April 23 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

They added in the UI icons for the abilities as ways to tell the difference.

Otherwise this is a f2p game that makes money on selling skins. Going to have to get past it. Typically I can know what a mech is by the sounds i had been hearing, the weapons i see, or the sounds they make when he shoots at me. Toss on the icon now and i know what I am fighting without having to do any of that anymore. Granted I still do.. but nonetheless it is much easier to tell who is what now.

I don't really find it a problem.

The problem for me is not that there are skins. It's that the enemy Ezreal looks like Ashe. You don't purcahses a body "for a sharpshooter" - you purchase one for a raider or an assault. You guys have learnt to "rely on fine print" to make your identification. which is a good thing and shows a level of skill I do not posses. But it's still a factor that takes away from the game because it requires you to have a level of discerning that isn't relevant to gameplay.

I don't see what's so challenging by just taking a quick glance at an icon that's right there in your face. I think some people just need to get over their nit-picky issues with body-swapping. While I would have preferred hyphenated mech-class names next to each player's name, the icon suffices. I'll admit, it does take some getting use to, especially with mechs I have not played with before. Though playing several games remedies that pretty fast.