43 replies to this topic

[Saturnine]

Beefsweat, on April 24 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

It's too bad that C-classes get melted down almost instantly by any group that knows what they're doing...

I'm curious who these players are that you'd constitute being people who "know what they are doing."

Maybe you play with, say, Der3z, Culex, Overwolf, Rei, Notkjell, Budekai, Exeon, Furymonster, AJK, Akrium, Conquistador, Kyrzon, etc regularly_ I play Brawler nigh exclusively and regularly top the boards playing it against these people and many more who I haven't mentioned, who are all easily tournament quality. I've played against these people on teams together, and I would certainly say that they know what they are doing. I feel like I am in a position where I can accurately comment on the viability of Brawlers at the very least, if not C classes in general.

The C classes who 'melt almost instantly against teams who know what they are doing' themselves probably don't know what they are doing if they melt like that so easily. More often then not I am the only one who escapes a confrontation that goes south, not the other way around.

Because if there are people out there significantly better than those I mentioned, I would love to play against them more often, I got into a clan in the first place for the challenge, and I want to be playing against the best people out there if I am going to continue to get better! Please let me know who they are so I can play with them! Though with how big my friends list is, there is a good chance I know them already, but I look forward to being surprised!

Edited by Saturnine, April 24 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[Bratwurst]

Brawler...... a pain in a rocketeer's shiny metal ass.

[FussyBadger]

Dang it, where's the Sat-o-wall variant for the Rocketeer_!

[Saturnine]

FussyBadger, on April 24 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Dang it, where's the Sat-o-wall variant for the Rocketeer_!

Uhhhhh  <_<  >_>

*subtly turns on the Deidarall signal*

Edited by Saturnine, April 24 2013 - 12:56 PM.

[ml604]

So here are a couple suggestions for playing Rocketeer -- since I've been bringing that out more frequently than the Brawler.. I tend to agree with all of what Saturnine said, Rocketeer is more support than close range, the Brawler is the true "I want to LOVE you" C-Class.

I started in January so I may have less experience than others... so others: please chime in and/or correct me if I get something wrong.

Get good at dumb-firing the Hellfires. Especially at closer range, and when there is no time to get a lock (or the enemy is covered so you can't really lock on them or locking will send them into the wall). They handle a bit differently than the tow, I prefer to aim for a splash line, so firing at eh 20 degrees to the ground leaves quite the spread. The higher the angle, the less spread.

Also before you get airborne try to plan on where you intend to land: preferably behind cover. In the air you're a total target. keep those jump boosts as brief as possible.

Don't run out of fuel.

A-Classes, either shower them with eoc pucks, or go for the lock and unload everything on them all at once. The shower gets them where they are moving around, and the total unload can strip some C-classes down to half their HP. This is very useful to complement your team working on a Brawler in turret mode.

Don't run out of fuel.

Watch your flank.

Don't let the brawler get too close (especially before showering, yuk!). A-Classes you can usually get some distance when your lock will hit them.

Get the lock, and shoot up, or to the side. Let the curve of the hellfire lock get around that corner for you.

Oh, it also helps when their focus is on someone else. Stick and move -- however slowly.

Hope this helps -- others can chime in, I'm now reading this thread for hints too

[Corpinator]

Saturnine, on April 24 2013 - 05:48 AM, said:

Brawler poetry.

Saturnine, on April 24 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

FussyBadger, on April 24 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Dang it, where's the Sat-o-wall variant for the Rocketeer_!

Uhhhhh    >_>

*subtly turns on the Deidarall signal*

I second this! I request Rocketeer Sat-o-wall! Inspire me yet again, Brawler Herder!

[The_Eldritch_Abomination]

Well, all I can say is that The Rocketeer is just as devastating as Saturnine says with The Brawler, but it's harder to master due to it's weapons and overall playstyles (I play CQC in it occasionally when the occasional Scout/ Reaper/ CR-T/ Brawler/ Infiltrator gets too close. It works, but I'd rather be spamming EOC pucks from a distance.)

I would reccomend that the Author of OP get the Brawler first, and then maybe then the Rocketeer.

Edited by The_Eldritch_Abomination, April 30 2013 - 11:31 PM.

[vonbach]

From what I've seen of both, honestly I'd say none of the above.
Neither mech impresses at all. Both are simply too fat and slow.

[Akaon]

Saturnine, on April 24 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Beefsweat, on April 24 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

It's too bad that C-classes get melted down almost instantly by any group that knows what they're doing...

I'm curious who these players are that you'd constitute being people who "know what they are doing."

Maybe you play with, say, Der3z, Culex, Overwolf, Rei, Notkjell, Budekai, Exeon, Furymonster, AJK, Akrium, Conquistador, Kyrzon, etc regularly_ I play Brawler nigh exclusively and regularly top the boards playing it against these people and many more who I haven't mentioned, who are all easily tournament quality. I've played against these people on teams together, and I would certainly say that they know what they are doing. I feel like I am in a position where I can accurately comment on the viability of Brawlers at the very least, if not C classes in general.

The C classes who 'melt almost instantly against teams who know what they are doing' themselves probably don't know what they are doing if they melt like that so easily. More often then not I am the only one who escapes a confrontation that goes south, not the other way around.

Because if there are people out there significantly better than those I mentioned, I would love to play against them more often, I got into a clan in the first place for the challenge, and I want to be playing against the best people out there if I am going to continue to get better! Please let me know who they are so I can play with them! Though with how big my friends list is, there is a good chance I know them already, but I look forward to being surprised!

Not gonna disagree with you on the idea that C mechs can do well. However, C mechs are, well, kinda gimped if you compare them to A mechs in general. They do have the benefit of being a little more resilient to burst damage, which actually matters these days with all the alpha striking (or: shooting a detonator). But the benefits of the C mechs just don't weigh up to their weaknesses overall.

Perhaps the US servers are vastly different, but in the UK servers pretty much everyone plays A mechs in the higher MMR games. With detonators of course.

[FussyBadger]

Akaon, on May 03 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

Not gonna disagree with you on the idea that C mechs can do well. However, C mechs are, well, kinda gimped if you compare them to A mechs in general.

You're both right. C class mechs can do well. They're disadvantaged in many ways, though, and require skill to fill the gap. I'm not personally certain if it's a matter of being imbalanced or a higher difficulty level, though. All indications from the forums, Saturnine excluded, point to balance.

[vonbach]

I wouldn't call C classes balanced, gimped is the word I'd use. Why should I use a C class
when an A class is faster smaller and has close to the same firepower_

Edited by vonbach, May 03 2013 - 05:44 AM.

[FussyBadger]

vonbach, on May 03 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

I wouldn't call C classes balanced, gimped is the word I'd use. Why should I use a C class
when an A class is faster smaller and has close to the same firepower_

Depends on the type of game you're playing. There are times in Siege and MA where the ranged support and area denial of my EOC Rocketeer makes a huge difference. I won't win a lot of duels and I sure wouldn't take it into solo Deathmatch - I also rarely use it in TDM -  but there are times when it's a good option.

I haven't spent much time playing with great C class players. Most C classes I encounter they try to play them like an A class, which plays to the strengths of said class, or they use turret mode way too often. That's why I wonder about it.

Edited by FussyBadger, May 03 2013 - 05:52 AM.

[vonbach]

FussyBadger, on May 03 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

vonbach, on May 03 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

I wouldn't call C classes balanced, gimped is the word I'd use. Why should I use a C class
when an A class is faster smaller and has close to the same firepower_

Depends on the type of game you're playing. There are times in Siege and MA where the ranged support and area denial of my EOC Rocketeer makes a huge difference. I won't win a lot of duels and I sure wouldn't take it into solo Deathmatch - I also rarely use it in TDM -  but there are times when it's a good option.
There are times in Siege and MA where the ranged support and area denial of my EOC Rocketeer makes a huge difference.
I haven't spent much time playing with great C class players. Most C classes I encounter they try to play them like an A class, which plays to the strengths of said class, or they use turret mode way too often. That's why I wonder about it.

Depends on the type of game you're playing. There are times in Siege and MA where the ranged support and area denial of my EOC Rocketeer makes a huge difference.

Quote

There are times in Siege and MA where the ranged support and area denial of my EOC Rocketeer makes a huge difference.

This is the only reason I can think of to use the Rocketeer. Though I've had more success with the seeker missiles.
I got this thing pretty much for those game modes. Honestly the thought that was running through my head the most
when playing the Rocketeer was why am I playing with this when I could be using my SharpShooter_ And the Brawler
I felt like a Sumo as a dodgeball target. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but neither of the C classes I bought seem that good at all.

Edited by vonbach, May 03 2013 - 06:18 AM.

[Kmaleon73]

I particularly I have both and I really like both, accompany it is always a tech and see that they are very effective in controlling the area in the optimization point activale yellow spots, and of course see the results from level 17 onwards.

[Akaon]

FussyBadger, on May 03 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

vonbach, on May 03 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

I wouldn't call C classes balanced, gimped is the word I'd use. Why should I use a C class
when an A class is faster smaller and has close to the same firepower_

Depends on the type of game you're playing. There are times in Siege and MA where the ranged support and area denial of my EOC Rocketeer makes a huge difference. I won't win a lot of duels and I sure wouldn't take it into solo Deathmatch - I also rarely use it in TDM -  but there are times when it's a good option.

I haven't spent much time playing with great C class players. Most C classes I encounter they try to play them like an A class, which plays to the strengths of said class, or they use turret mode way too often. That's why I wonder about it.

Depending on the situation/environment, an EOC infiltrator could actually be better for area denial, due to the fact that you can use your GL to shoot around corners (of course, assuming you are in a position where this is possible).

Not sure what the real strength of the C mechs however. Being slow and "tough" would be very defining, but I'm a little uncertain of how tough they really are. Being slow and cumbersome and having a higher dodge cooldown, you're gonna take more hits, period. This is obvious and I'd guess this is the reason why they have 850 health. But beyond that, the combination of being slow and having a bigger hitbox, also means that:
You're generally going to take more damage from explosion in your vicinity (closer to center due to size)
Catch bullets that would miss A mechs - not just shots that were aimed poorly, but also bullets that would miss due to spread (and don't forget about shotguns hitting more pellets!). Also having longer repair times due to the (silly) fact that A B and C mechs repair at the same speed and boosts to repair rate are absolute numbers, not relative to health, means that any damage taken results in a larger downtime.

I mean, it's nice that you can take more damage in total, but effectively taking more damage from things than an A mech would, through these subtle mechanisms, kind of negates the health bonus in part. Not taking into account purely being hit more often due to your slow speed and higher dodge cooldowns.
Coupled with the disadvantages of being slow that are not directly related to combat (being able to position/reposition yourself better/faster, more control over where you can fight, chasing/fleeing.... etc.)

Edited by Akaon, May 03 2013 - 10:06 AM.

[FussyBadger]

It's definitely a tricky situation now that there's a Technician in the game. Simply bumping health means something different than it would have prior to the Tech.

[Xuande]

Had my Brawler for a while but only yesterday did I decide to seriously use it. Suffice it to say I don't really like it much. The flak is so slow and missing a shot is painfully costly and heat build up is faster than any mech I've ever owned. I'm actually considering using extinguishers. The mech itself is slow and a huge target. It's also damn near useless on large maps like Frontline and Bazaar.

I need to play longer than 24 hours to solidify my opinion on it but so far, it's just a big slow firing hunk of metal.

EDIT: Decided to play exclusively on US East servers and WOW it's made a HUGE difference in my damage output. The Brawler is starting to grow on me.

EDIT2: I frackin' love my Brawler!!! It took some real getting use to and a huge dip in my MMR but it was worth it. It brings me joy when an A class is shooting at me and I'm shrugging off the damage as I'm barreling towards them. They either fall victim to my Flak/TOW or run when they see me rushing for them. Hilarious either way.

Edited by Xuande, May 05 2013 - 12:16 AM.

[Sylhiri]

1v1 situation is different for C classes then other classes but in 2v2 or higher, the game of peek-a-boo ends quickly.

I would rather choose a Brawler then a Rocketeer just because the secondary is more reliable and the primary is the hitscan boot in the face.

Edit: Plus since it has the Flak it can take over a shield easy or leg hump you into death without much self injury, less explosive = better cqc in tight spaces.

Edited by Sylhiri, May 03 2013 - 01:31 PM.

[DriZZleBiZZle]

Honestly the rocketeer is the only mech i have really found a good synergy with. That being said, I can see it being thought of as a suppourt mech or rather it needs support to actually flourish. I usually try and start with a A class and when the teams start to fill out I'll switch to my rocketeer. Also I find the turret mode for a rocketeer completly worthless and believe it should never be used.

[vonbach]

Most of the success I've had with the Rocketeer is when I play him with a team and play him like my Sharpshooter.
Basically stay at medium range and with your team and support them. One thing I have noticed is he's decent against
groups in choke-points. Watch them scatter like cockroaches. The main problem I've noticed is unlike my Sharpshooterthe shots aren't instant the rockets take time and the enemy has time to run making my practical firepower a lot less.

Quote

Not sure what the real strength of the C mechs however. Being slow and "tough" would be very defining, but I'm a little uncertain of how tough they really are. Being slow and cumbersome and having a higher dodge cooldown, you're gonna take more hits, period. This is obvious and I'd guess this is the reason why they have 850 health. But beyond that, the combination of being slow and having a bigger hitbox, also means that:
You're generally going to take more damage from explosion in your vicinity (closer to center due to size)
Catch bullets that would miss A mechs - not just shots that were aimed poorly, but also bullets that would miss due to spread (and don't forget about shotguns hitting more pellets!). Also having longer repair times due to the (silly) fact that A B and C mechs repair at the same speed and boosts to repair rate are absolute numbers, not relative to health, means that any damage taken results in a larger downtime.

This is the main problem with C classes they need something in compensation for being so big and slow.
In my experience A classes are a lot less vulnerable simply because their smaller and so much faster.

Edited by vonbach, May 03 2013 - 04:25 PM.