119 replies to this topic

[vonbach]

Balance the A classes.
Who on earth thinks these are balanced_ You have mechs with half the hitbox
at least twice the mobility and every bit of the firepower of a C class.
What dev thought this was a good idea seriously_ I can kill C classes
(most classes really) with my technician its so bad. Hit them with the nerf bat.

[WarlordZ]

I don't believe that A class mechs should be nerfed simply because they're close to how they should play right now.  C class mechs are the worst mechs right now though and need work.

Edited by WarlordZ, May 12 2013 - 07:26 PM.

[Leonhardt]

WarlordZ, on May 12 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

I don't believe that A class mechs should be nerfed simply because they're close to how they should play right now.  C class mechs are the worst mechs right now though and need work.

I agree that A class mechs shouldn't be nerfed, but I disagree with the idea that C class mechs are the worst mechs right now. Thats simply not true. I have seen many skilled pilots use their positive aspects to great advantage. This does not mean I don't think C class mechs deserve a real ability or maybe an increase in fuel capacity/speed, but I don't want people to get the wrong idea here. C class mechs are great mechs when used properly just like any other mech.

A class does not need the "nerf bat" and I can tell you this from experience playing as all A class types and against all A class types at many levels of play. Vonbach I was watching the game you were in where Weezl3 destroyed you and your team with a flak scout (he is my roomate and is literally in the room next to mine). I also know that better pilots would have destroyed him in a matter of seconds with a C class mech.

So my point here is mechs don't need the "nerf bat" just because you had a bad game. I've been teaching Weezl3 how to play since he was a wee little scrub and now he is starting to do well. You can too, but getting upset and asking for a nerf because you lost won't help you. Try to recognize what you did wrong in a match and correct it later.

I don't mean to sound like a jack off, but I have just seen so many posts where someone lost and then came onto the forums to complain about balance. It just so happens that I watched this one happen a few minutes ago so I am saying something.

[vonbach]

A classes need their firepower reduced. The damage I can do attacking by myself with my Technician is disgusting
let alone simply spamming grenades and assault rifle fire with the Infiltrator. B classes should be the mainstay with
both C classes and A classes supporting. Not having A classes zooming all over the battlefield with ludicrous
amounts of firepower and everything else their targets.
This isn't the first time I've had a run in with a scout btw and no one can call them balanced.
Its like giving the Team fortress 2 scout the soldiers rocket launcher. No A classes are not balanced
calling me bad isn't going to change that.

Edited by vonbach, May 12 2013 - 07:47 PM.

[WarlordZ]

Leonhardt, on May 12 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

WarlordZ, on May 12 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

I don't believe that A class mechs should be nerfed simply because they're close to how they should play right now.  C class mechs are the worst mechs right now though and need work.

I agree that A class mechs shouldn't be nerfed, but I disagree with the idea that C class mechs are the worst mechs right now. Thats simply not true. I have seen many skilled pilots use their positive aspects to great advantage. This does not mean I don't think C class mechs deserve a real ability or maybe an increase in fuel capacity/speed, but I don't want people to get the wrong idea here.

I agree with your sentiments actually.  I just think that, when you sum it all up, the result can be described as "somewhat underpowered".  They certainly have some unique uses but they suffer in a lot of situations and when you sum it up they're a slightly lower tier.

Edited by WarlordZ, May 12 2013 - 07:56 PM.

[vonbach]

I have all three C class mechs and all three are lacking. Their simply too big and slow and lack firepower.
If I'm going to be big and slow I'd like to see something for it. Also A classes running around with way to much
firepower is one of the reasons you see all the turtling matches out there. Everyone groups up for defense
and the game turns into a massive sniper snooze fest.

Edited by vonbach, May 12 2013 - 08:04 PM.

[Leonhardt]

WarlordZ, on May 12 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

I agree with your sentiments actually.  I just think that, when you sum it all up, the result can be described as "somewhat underpowered".  They certainly have some unique uses but they suffer in a lot of situations and when you sum it up they're a slightly lower tier.

Mmm... without a team then yes the assessment of "somewhat underpowered" does fit to an extent, but with a team a good C class pilot has amazing utility. I think that is largely discounted because people forget that this is a team game.

vonbach, on May 12 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

I have all three C class mechs and all three are lacking. Their simply too big and slow and lack firepower.
If I'm going to be big and slow I'd like to see something for it.

Pray tell how do they lack firepower_ Their weapons are the same as A and B class mechs.

Edited by Leonhardt, May 12 2013 - 08:03 PM.

[vonbach]

Quote

Pray tell how do they lack firepower_ Their weapons are the same as A and B class mechs.

Exactly and they shouldn't be. It should be a tiered level of firepower. With C classes being slow but powerful
and A classes being flankers high mobility and harassment. Not the Op mess they are now.
In my Technician I have no fear of C classes at all. I can kill most with no problems. All I do is charge get in very close
and circle them with guns blazing until they die. If I'm a Tech I should get killed by myself against a mech like that
not being able to hunt them down for a game.

Edited by vonbach, May 12 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[Weezl3]

What would a tiered level of firepower do besides create a system where a C class can potentially one-shot an A class_ The current system gives C classes nearly a 2-1 advantage in health. Adding in a substantial increase to their weapons would only further this discrepancy. I can honestly say that I believe the Devs have done their homework with what is the most effective way to let all three classes continue to be playable, with each fitting into a certain role in the game. The C-classes are a different play style than are the A and B class mechs. A class is more speed, and less health. C classes trade in this speed for almost double the health. If you and the A class in question (i'm assuming its a scout), were to trade damage out in the open while using identical weapons, you would win easily assuming neither of you would miss.
Don't take this example as me trying to place blame for what you've perceived to be an imbalance, on your plate. Im simply trying to explain why there is not a single type of class that is "OP", instead, they all fit into different roles and play styles.

[MartyFriedman]

vonbach, on May 12 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

Quote

Pray tell how do they lack firepower_ Their weapons are the same as A and B class mechs.

Exactly and they shouldn't be. It should be a tiered level of firepower. With C classes being slow but powerful
and A classes being flankers high mobility and harassment. Not the Op mess they are now.
In my Technician I have no fear of C classes at all. I can kill most with no problems. All I do is charge get in very close
and circle them with guns blazing until they die. If I'm a Tech I should get killed by myself against a mech like that
not being able to hunt them down for a game.

Why should it be_  9 times out of 10 the tank and damage-dealer won't be the same, unlike how it theoretically is in Hawken.  Class based roles will almost always have the stone wall and the glass cannon respectively, but in Hawken we have the mighty glacier.  The C classes are doing their role of drawing fire and attention so the fragile A classes can do their role of dishing the damage, but they also have enough firepower to hold their own.  Making it tiered would make the As as effective as the REV-GL against the battleship since the Cs would just obliterate them.

[The_Eldritch_Abomination]

[vonbach]

Quote

C classes trade in this speed for almost double the health.

The Health advantage means very little when you have such a large hit box and are so slow. You end up taking
way more hits. So it matters little.  A classes have the same firepower as a C class and have much more
mobility. An A class can zip in blast a target apart then zip out all before the team can react. Unless the other team sits and
turtles.  A C class cant apply the same firepower an A class can because they can get there as fast or get away.
Only one A class should have the firepower it does and thats the Berzerker its designed to be a Zerg mech.
The reason the A classes are the way they are is probably the Devs think the whole high mobility destroyer thing is cool.
The problem is its not balanced.

Edited by vonbach, May 12 2013 - 08:32 PM.

[Leonhardt]

vonbach, on May 12 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

The Health advantage means very little when you have such a large hit box and are so slow. You end up taking
way more hits. So it matters little.  A classes have the same firepower as a C class and have much more
mobility. An A class can zip in blast a target apart then zip out all before the team can react. Unless the other team sits and
turtles.  A C class cant apply the same firepower an A class can because they can get there as fast or get away.
Only one A class should have the firepower it does and thats the Berzerker its designed to be a Zerg mech.
The reason the A classes are the way they are is probably the Devs think the whole high mobility destroyer thing is cool.
The problem is its not balanced.

I can solve this. So here is what we do. We get rid of C class and B class and give everyone only A class. That way everyone has the same hitbox. Then we give everyone the same weapons. Why not the AR and the TOW_ Just cuz those are classic. Now everyone is the same and it will be so much fun! I can't wait to play this balanced version of Hawken.

[vonbach]

Or you could give the A classes real weaknesses and the C classes real advantages.
No having mechs with double the mobility (at least) and far smaller and having the same firepower
as much larger mechs is not balanced.

Edited by vonbach, May 12 2013 - 08:36 PM.

[OmegaNull]

I think A class is good right now, my only gripe would be automatic weapons need a buff and that the TOW missle was nerfed too much. As far as C-class vs A-class... well, I known plenty of C-class that destroy me without mentioning names. I would say that it all depends on the pilot and if someone is not very good in their C-class,l then of course they are going to get beating by an A class. Though I do find techs to be very annoying regardsless of what class you face them in.

[Sylhiri]

vonbach, on May 12 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

I can kill C classes with my technician its so bad. Hit them with the nerf bat.

I'm just going to say...holy hell that pilot must be horrible.

[MartyFriedman]

vonbach, on May 12 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

Quote

C classes trade in this speed for almost double the health.

The Health advantage means very little when you have such a large hit box and are so slow. You end up taking
way more hits. So it matters little.  A classes have the same firepower as a C class and have much more
mobility. An A class can zip in blast a target apart then zip out all before the team can react. Unless the other team sits and
turtles.  A C class cant apply the same firepower an A class can because they can get there as fast or get away.
Only one A class should have the firepower it does and thats the Berzerker its designed to be a Zerg mech.
The reason the A classes are the way they are is probably the Devs think the whole high mobility destroyer thing is cool.
The problem is its not balanced.

You just don't get it do you_  The C class isn't supposed to be a primary damage dealer, it's supposed to serve as a distraction and draw enemy fire because of it's high HP, which is what's referred to as a tank (turret mode even enforces this).  Then while it's getting attacked, it's own team gets to work on the enemy that's distracted and vulnerable.  The fact that it has the capability of dealing the same damage as an A class (or more in the case of an EOC Rocketeer) makes it even more formidable.  The problem with the C classes isn't their hitbox (hell their hitbox is technically smaller in turret mode if you go by visual), but their effectively useless abilities.  By being smart and firing your secondary after a dodge an A can go down easier than a turret mode C class.

Besides, what's stopping you from using A classes if they're so OP_

Edited by MartyFriedman, May 12 2013 - 08:43 PM.

[vonbach]

Quote

it's supposed to serve as a distraction and draw enemy fire because of it's high HP, which is what's referred to as a tank (turret mode even enforces this).

You try tanking with a C class and see where it gets you. C classes pretty much need a Tech to stay alive.
And no my role isn't to get shot at so all the cool A classes can murder the team without getting shot.

[Nerdsinc]

TBH I think all mechs are balanced as is atm.

Raider could use a slight primary weapon buff, Bruiser's passive could use a slight buff and all the C classes could have a slight bump in speed...

No major changes need to be made IMHO.

[MartyFriedman]

vonbach, on May 12 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Quote

it's supposed to serve as a distraction and draw enemy fire because of it's high HP, which is what's referred to as a tank (turret mode even enforces this).

You try tanking with a C class and see where it gets you. C classes pretty much need a Tech to stay alive.

I can guarantee you that in most matches with both sides of equal skill and tactical ability, a team of 3 Rocketeers and 3 anythings will win out against a team of 6 A classes.  And tanking will only work in the same manner it does in every other game with a tank role, by having your team back you up.  If you don't have your team backing you up you might as well run up to 3 people and hop into turret mode, you'll get the same results.

Quote

And no my role isn't to get shot at so all the cool A classes can murder the team without getting shot.

Yes it is, that's what a tank does, they take the hits to lessen the impact on the remainder of their team and/or draw the enemies attention.  This is done with either defensive capabilities (i.e. the damage reduction Rocketeer and Grenadier get on their turret modes) or by acting as a large, attention-attracting meat shield.  Just because you want to play against it's role doesn't mean it's flawed, it means that your playing it in a way that it's not intended to be played.

Edited by MartyFriedman, May 12 2013 - 09:53 PM.