90 replies to this topic

[Thyleon]

Audible_Silence, on May 29 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

yes i'm very aware of that as I own my own business. And i'm familiar with the fact that they lose money on consoles at first. regardless, if those options weren't developed, or included, than thats less cost to the company, thus they could charge less for the console. (this is assuming they keep the percentages the same regarding cost and for sale price.)

Quote

Microsoft Corporation filed the patent in November 2011, highlighting two ideas: first, that traditional television viewing was "passive" and provided few "opportunities for a viewer to engage with the programming," and second, that television advertisers were "finding it increasingly difficult to introduce their advertisements to viewers."
The patent proposed getting users engaged with advertisements by monitoring them with depth cameras and infrared illumination. Users who responded to prompts in advertisements would see rewards, and advertisers could compile all of the recorded user data to more effectively sell products.

http://www.huffingto..._n_3347608.html

This most likely means your Kinect was payed for in full by advertising companies that invested a large amount of money into the production of the product (Or Microsoft is going to charge a decent chunk of money for to the companies using this product after they do substantial research on it). Essentially meaning that you get a free piece of hardware to monitors your everyday life. In reality I'd just cover up my Kinect, but seriously though anyone that has looked into depth on the hardware specs should know that the consoles are hardly different excluding the only major comparable difference which is both companies choice of RAM. You are missing my point that a majority of the software developed for the Xbox One was most likely paid for by companies other than Microsoft.

As far as I'm concerned the only additional development cost for the Xbox was developing it to run three operating systems at once.

Edited by Thyleon, May 29 2013 - 06:41 PM.

[Teljaxx]

The XBone will not replace your cable box, it needs to hook up to it to use any cable related features. Plus, there will apparently be an extra fee associated with using the cable features. So it is not as convenient as they would like you to believe.

Thyleon, on May 29 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

This most likely means your Kinect was payed for in full by advertising companies that invested a large amount of money into the production of the product (Or Microsoft is going to charge a decent chunk of money for to the companies using this product after they do substantial research on it). Essentially meaning that you get a free piece of hardware to monitors your everyday life. In reality I'd just cover up my Kinect, but seriously though anyone that has looked into depth on the hardware specs should know that the consoles are hardly different excluding the only major comparable difference which is both companies choice of RAM. You are missing my point that a majority of the software developed for the Xbox One was most likely paid for by companies other than Microsoft.

As far as I'm concerned the only additional development cost for the Xbox was developing it to run three operating systems at once.

And yet we, the end users, are still going to be paying extra for all these features. Because it does not matter which company paid for what part of the console, they all expect to see their money returned in full, plus profit.

So things like the Kinect are not free, and you are still forced into paying for them even if you are never going to use them. If Microsoft was not going to force us to have the Kinect always active, then they could have sold a cheaper version of the console that did not come packaged with it. But as it stands, you are being forced into paying for the Kinect, even if you will always have it covered up and will never use it.

[Thyleon]

Teljaxx, on May 29 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

The XBone will not replace your cable box, it needs to hook up to it to use any cable related features. Plus, there will apparently be an extra fee associated with using the cable features. So it is not as convenient as they would like you to believe.

Thyleon, on May 29 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

This most likely means your Kinect was payed for in full by advertising companies that invested a large amount of money into the production of the product (Or Microsoft is going to charge a decent chunk of money for to the companies using this product after they do substantial research on it). Essentially meaning that you get a free piece of hardware to monitors your everyday life. In reality I'd just cover up my Kinect, but seriously though anyone that has looked into depth on the hardware specs should know that the consoles are hardly different excluding the only major comparable difference which is both companies choice of RAM. You are missing my point that a majority of the software developed for the Xbox One was most likely paid for by companies other than Microsoft.

As far as I'm concerned the only additional development cost for the Xbox was developing it to run three operating systems at once.

And yet we, the end users, are still going to be paying extra for all these features. Because it does not matter which company paid for what part of the console, they all expect to see their money returned in full, plus profit.

So things like the Kinect are not free, and you are still forced into paying for them even if you are never going to use them. If Microsoft was not going to force us to have the Kinect always active, then they could have sold a cheaper version of the console that did not come packaged with it. But as it stands, you are being forced into paying for the Kinect, even if you will always have it covered up and will never use it.

If Microsoft wasn't going to force you to have the Kinect active what advertiser would care to invest money into the product. If you really believe that you are being forced to pay for the products that you don't want then stop buying consoles that you don't want. If you want an example of what I just described look at the very game these forums were created for, Hawken.

Adhesive (Micrsoft) had a product Hawken (Kinect), they needed investors (Advertisers) to help fund their company. Meteor invests money into Hawken hoping for a return on their product and to bring a new game into the world.

[Teljaxx]

Thyleon, on May 30 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

If Microsoft wasn't going to force you to have the Kinect active what advertiser would care to invest money into the product. If you really believe that you are being forced to pay for the products that you don't want then stop buying consoles that you don't want. If you want an example of what I just described look at the very game these forums were created for, Hawken.

Adhesive (Micrsoft) had a product Hawken (Kinect), they needed investors (Advertisers) to help fund their company. Meteor invests money into Hawken hoping for a return on their product and to bring a new game into the world.

You are basically using the companies wanting to make money to justify them not caring about their customer satisfaction. If they actually cared about their customers, they would most likely give us the option to buy different versions of the console with different features, so that we could save money by buying only what we wanted. They did this with the 360, after all. Instead, they make it so that if you want any of the features, you have to pay full price for all of them, or you get nothing at all.

Comparing Hawken to the XBone is not the same. With Hawken, it is entirely up to you how much of the game you buy. You can play entirely for free, or you can buy whatever parts of the game you want. With the XBone, it is pay for all of it, or get nothing at all. For this to be comparable to Hawken, this would be like if you had to buy enough MC to purchase every item in the game before even letting you play.

What I meant by being forced into buying the Kinect is that if you want just the console, you cannot buy it alone. You have to buy a Kinect as well, whether you want it or not. Not that you are being forced to buy the console itself.

And believe me, I am currently not planning on buying the XBone. I would much rather spend the money to upgrade my PC than buy a pile of "features" that I do not want with one that I do buried somewhere in the middle. And if I miss out on a few XBone exclusive titles, then so be it.

[Thyleon]

Teljaxx, on May 30 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

Thyleon, on May 30 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

If Microsoft wasn't going to force you to have the Kinect active what advertiser would care to invest money into the product. If you really believe that you are being forced to pay for the products that you don't want then stop buying consoles that you don't want. If you want an example of what I just described look at the very game these forums were created for, Hawken.

Adhesive (Micrsoft) had a product Hawken (Kinect), they needed investors (Advertisers) to help fund their company. Meteor invests money into Hawken hoping for a return on their product and to bring a new game into the world.

You are basically using the companies wanting to make money to justify them not caring about their customer satisfaction. If they actually cared about their customers, they would most likely give us the option to buy different versions of the console with different features, so that we could save money by buying only what we wanted. They did this with the 360, after all. Instead, they make it so that if you want any of the features, you have to pay full price for all of them, or you get nothing at all.

Comparing Hawken to the XBone is not the same. With Hawken, it is entirely up to you how much of the game you buy. You can play entirely for free, or you can buy whatever parts of the game you want. With the XBone, it is pay for all of it, or get nothing at all. For this to be comparable to Hawken, this would be like if you had to buy enough MC to purchase every item in the game before even letting you play.

What I meant by being forced into buying the Kinect is that if you want just the console, you cannot buy it alone. You have to buy a Kinect as well, whether you want it or not. Not that you are being forced to buy the console itself.

And believe me, I am currently not planning on buying the XBone. I would much rather spend the money to upgrade my PC than buy a pile of "features" that I do not want with one that I do buried somewhere in the middle. And if I miss out on a few XBone exclusive titles, then so be it.

It's cute that you don't see the between the lines. The Kinect is exactly like a free to play model, however excluding hacks you cannot use the Kinect without a console so there is no reason to sell the Kinect by itself. Thus giving the Kinect out with every console is the only legitimate business model. If every person that owns an Xbox One buys one Kinect game it will most likely pay for the Kinect (Not factual just an example). Now if they buy two games then you just doubled your money. By that I mean Kinect exclusive cause lets be honest and you have made the statement many times before, people aren't buying the games that aren't Kinect exclusives for the side features in their other games.

If they were to sell the Xbox One without the Kinect they would then have to allow for users to play the Xbox One without the Kinect. Which in essence would defeat the entire purpose of the Kinect, "Advertising."

Consoles are aimed at the broader market since the majority of people in the world don't know how to build a PC, let alone use one. Simple stuff sells. I am not promoting or encouraging people to purchase a console I am merely informing you of proper business practices. Take an Informatics class, information is the most valuable feature a console can provide. Keeping up with every changing trends in their customer base with generate more revenue than you can even imagine.

[Teljaxx]

Thyleon, on May 30 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

It's cute that you don't see the between the lines. The Kinect is exactly like a free to play model, however excluding hacks you cannot use the Kinect without a console so there is no reason to sell the Kinect by itself. Thus giving the Kinect out with every console is the only legitimate business model. If every person that owns an Xbox One buys one Kinect game it will most likely pay for the Kinect (Not factual just an example). Now if they buy two games then you just doubled your money. By that I mean Kinect exclusive cause lets be honest and you have made the statement many times before, people aren't buying the games that aren't Kinect exclusives for the side features in their other games.

If they were to sell the Xbox One without the Kinect they would then have to allow for users to play the Xbox One without the Kinect. Which in essence would defeat the entire purpose of the Kinect, "Advertising."

Consoles are aimed at the broader market since the majority of people in the world don't know how to build a PC, let alone use one. Simple stuff sells. I am not promoting or encouraging people to purchase a console I am merely informing you of proper business practices. Take an Informatics class, information is the most valuable feature a console can provide. Keeping up with every changing trends in their customer base with generate more revenue than you can even imagine.

Once again, you are justifying corporations not caring about customer satisfaction by saying it is profitable. You know what else is profitable_ Focusing on customer satisfaction. Just look at LEGO. They have always focused on giving their customers the best experience with their products as possible. And just recently they became the most valuable toy manufacturer in the world, so it obviously works. So why could a company like Microsoft not do the same thing_

All of the features, not just the Kinect, that the XBone has besides game playing are there primarily to sell consoles. They are not there because Microsoft thinks that they make the console better. But why is this a good thing_ Why not make it with features that will genuinely make the customer's experience with the console better, instead of piling on easily marketable gimmicks with no real advantages_ Profits_ if that is all the company cares about, then sure that makes sense. But that is the reason for the overall very poor opinion that the public has for Microsoft. So is this really the best way for them to do things_

Oh, right, it does not matter. Because they hold a monopoly on the computer market. So they can do whatever greedy fuzzy bunny they want and people are still going to buy their products, because they have no choice. So even in their foray into the console market, where they do not have a monopoly, it does not matter if they fail, because they have their PC monopoly to fall back on if they do.

And the sad thing is that I doubt that the XBone will fail. Because the general consumer market will just grin and buy it like it is the best thing ever, because they do not know any better.

[Thyleon]

Teljaxx, on May 30 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Thyleon, on May 30 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

It's cute that you don't see the between the lines. The Kinect is exactly like a free to play model, however excluding hacks you cannot use the Kinect without a console so there is no reason to sell the Kinect by itself. Thus giving the Kinect out with every console is the only legitimate business model. If every person that owns an Xbox One buys one Kinect game it will most likely pay for the Kinect (Not factual just an example). Now if they buy two games then you just doubled your money. By that I mean Kinect exclusive cause lets be honest and you have made the statement many times before, people aren't buying the games that aren't Kinect exclusives for the side features in their other games.

If they were to sell the Xbox One without the Kinect they would then have to allow for users to play the Xbox One without the Kinect. Which in essence would defeat the entire purpose of the Kinect, "Advertising."

Consoles are aimed at the broader market since the majority of people in the world don't know how to build a PC, let alone use one. Simple stuff sells. I am not promoting or encouraging people to purchase a console I am merely informing you of proper business practices. Take an Informatics class, information is the most valuable feature a console can provide. Keeping up with every changing trends in their customer base with generate more revenue than you can even imagine.

Once again, you are justifying corporations not caring about customer satisfaction by saying it is profitable. You know what else is profitable_ Focusing on customer satisfaction. Just look at LEGO. They have always focused on giving their customers the best experience with their products as possible. And just recently they became the most valuable toy manufacturer in the world, so it obviously works. So why could a company like Microsoft not do the same thing_

All of the features, not just the Kinect, that the XBone has besides game playing are there primarily to sell consoles. They are not there because Microsoft thinks that they make the console better. But why is this a good thing_ Why not make it with features that will genuinely make the customer's experience with the console better, instead of piling on easily marketable gimmicks with no real advantages_ Profits_ if that is all the company cares about, then sure that makes sense. But that is the reason for the overall very poor opinion that the public has for Microsoft. So is this really the best way for them to do things_

Oh, right, it does not matter. Because they hold a monopoly on the computer market. So they can do whatever greedy fuzzy bunny they want and people are still going to buy their products, because they have no choice. So even in their foray into the console market, where they do not have a monopoly, it does not matter if they fail, because they have their PC monopoly to fall back on if they do.

And the sad thing is that I doubt that the XBone will fail. Because the general consumer market will just grin and buy it like it is the best thing ever, because they do not know any better.

Clearly that's what I'm saying, obviously I'm not justifying why the Kinect is given away with the console. I complain about free fuzzy bunny all the time too, cause free fuzzy bunny is horrible. The features you think are 'horrible' the general market clearly wants, or Microsoft wouldn't include them.

Also you are the funniest person in the world saying that consumers don't have a choice about which OS they use. When there are thousands of free Linux Distributions at your fingertip. Hilarious my friend.

Edited by Thyleon, May 30 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[ropefish]

you guys still going at it _

[Thyleon]

ropefish, on May 30 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

you guys still going at it _

Funny thing is neither of us are avid console gamer's, but you know how it is.

Edited by Thyleon, May 30 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[RedVan]

nice looking blueray player!  But whats with that weird remote_

[Audible_Silence]

PS4 it is.... even if they also do a used games thing like MS... (which would swing alot of people to PC only) the always online thing kills it for me.

http://www.ign.com/a...s-always-online

also this is an interesting article... i had to read it a few times to understand it.

http://www.neogaf.co...ad.php_t=576869