90 replies to this topic

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Vivacity, on May 23 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

So your talking about sales_ Sales are a major factor on whether or not something is worth purchasing_
Otherwise

Quote

Meh, i'll wait and see how Nvidia's Shield does.

means what_

Yes, i am talking about sales.
Because, let's face it, if the platform doesn't sell very well from the getgo and/or game sales for it don't do well, few game Devs will bother with it beyond whatever initial releases are planned, 'tis a new platform after all.
Not to mention it introduces some new Tech that's not exactly been tested for full worldwide consumer grade usage (streaming from PC, cloud gaming, etc), so the whole project might go kablooey on Nvidia if things go south on them, especially if you consider the time Nvidia often needs to patch things properly.

On a different note, please learn the difference between 'You're' (a contraction of the words 'you are') and Your (as in Your Gameboy, which = possesive)

Edited by Dread_Lord_Pitr, May 23 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[Thyleon]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on May 23 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Vivacity, on May 23 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

So your talking about sales_ Sales are a major factor on whether or not something is worth purchasing_
Otherwise

Quote

Meh, i'll wait and see how Nvidia's Shield does.

means what_

Yes, i am talking about sales.
Because, let's face it, if the platform doesn't sell very well from the getgo and/or game sales for it don't do well, few game Devs will bother with it beyond whatever initial releases are planned, 'tis a new platform after all.
Not to mention it introduces some new Tech that's not exactly been tested for full worldwide consumer grade usage (streaming from PC, cloud gaming, etc), so the whole project might go kablooey on Nvidia if things go south on them, especially if you consider the time Nvidia often needs to patch things properly.

On a different note, please learn the difference between 'You're' (a contraction of the words 'you are') and Your (as in Your Gameboy, which = possesive)

Not a true statement, just take the Wii for example and then compare console sales to game sales. Pretty sad performance if that was the bottom line. Hot hip and new doesn't mean something is worth purchasing, just means it's the current fashion.

[Audible_Silence]

Vivacity, on May 22 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Audible_Silence, on May 22 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

the fact that i cannot let my room mate barrow a game, for a few hours while im playing a different one, with him having to pay a fee, which is apparently full price, is ludicrous. I can buy and sell clothes, cars, cell phones, TVs, Art, Blu-rays. so why should games be different.

why would somebody be forced to buy a game they may not like___ what if a game is only 10 hours in length, i sure as hell am not going to pay $60 for it if i can't sell it for $30 to a friend.

Your misunderstanding it, your not able to play a game that was bought digitally unless your logged on to the account you bought it with. If you have the PHYSICAL cd you can play it anywhere. Same as now.
But if its a DIGITAL copy then you have to be logged on to your own account.

"So, think about how you use a disc that you own of an Xbox 360 game. If I buy the disc from a store, I use that disc in my machine, I can give that disc to my son and he can play it on his 360 in his room. We both can't play at the same time, but the disc is the key to playing. I can go round to your house and give you that disc and you can play on that game as well.

What we're doing with the digital permissions that we have for Xbox One is no different to that. If I am playing on that disc, which is installed to the hard drive on my Xbox One, everybody in my household who has permission to use my Xbox One can use that piece of content. [So] I can give that piece of content to my son and he can play it on the same system."

Theres been a lot of confusion but the most recent interview is what I'm quoting.

again
Microsoft's Larry Hryb has issued the following clarification:

Another piece of clarification around playing games at a friend’s house – should you choose to play your game at your friend’s house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile.

What this means is that if you take a game to a friend's house and try to play the game on their system using their account, you'll need to pay. If you take it to their house and try to play it on their system using your account, you won't need to pay."

if you take the physical disc to a friends house, or give it to a room mate, they have to pay for it IF they are not using the disc owners account.

person A buys Hawken, installs it on person As account. Goes to person Bs xbox, logs into Person As account, plays for free. BUT, Log into person Bs account, and Person B now has to pay to play the game.

Edited by Audible_Silence, May 23 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[LucasAshrock]

That's exactly how it works. The owner of the disc and the account registered to that disc is the only owner.
You can play with others, and move around your disc between other consoles. Until your account tied to it is logged.
The disk recognize the ownership.
But the trick is allow the new owner to use YOUR disc. (I wouldn't allow a noone who bough my disk to my system, NEVER, not even my brother)
Aka rental market is dead.
Ye you can rent the physical disk. Value=0 , the new owner need a pass. Basically it's like download it from the market online, but instead of download various GBs of datas, you just have to press install and wait a few minutes.
And will be the best choice (accepting the fact you're not gonna sell the digital copy)
So you cannot "try" a game if not using this method (seems)
A solution would be unlock (remove the disk-account bond) the disk. Maybe. (Beware of scams in case lol)
When done, you cannot play with that game anymore (except if buying again a pass)
It has a sense. Considering the content is installed, a couple of friends would be tempted to buy 1 disk, install the game on both consoles, both going online, paying just 1 game. Basically the disk is "absolutely needed".
No more or less than the actual xbox360. (not hacked lol)
You know what_ I just hope C4EVA will crack the console on the first week, or noone will buy this junk of console

Edited by LucasAshrock, May 24 2013 - 01:44 AM.

[Audible_Silence]

so why is this a good thing__

[Thyleon]

Audible_Silence, on May 24 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

so why is this a good thing__

It isn't a good thing for the consumer, but it is a good thing for the company. Anyhow it isn't anything different than the games I buy on Steam so I really wouldn't care. I can't remember the last time I let someone borrow my games and if I was taking a game over to a friends to play it It'd be a multi-player game with which I'd either download my account info or have a memory card with the info on it. That being said I'm not quite sure this is going to kill the rental market. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo have both already worked out used games with Gamestop, so I'm pretty sure they will arrange something with other rental companies.

[Brnmatt7]

LucasAshrock, on May 24 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

That's exactly how it works. The owner of the disc and the account registered to that disc is the only owner.
You can play with others, and move around your disc between other consoles. Until your account tied to it is logged.
The disk recognize the ownership.
But the trick is allow the new owner to use YOUR disc. (I wouldn't allow a noone who bough my disk to my system, NEVER, not even my brother)
Aka rental market is dead.
Ye you can rent the physical disk. Value=0 , the new owner need a pass. Basically it's like download it from the market online, but instead of download various GBs of datas, you just have to press install and wait a few minutes.
And will be the best choice (accepting the fact you're not gonna sell the digital copy)
So you cannot "try" a game if not using this method (seems)
A solution would be unlock (remove the disk-account bond) the disk. Maybe. (Beware of scams in case lol)
When done, you cannot play with that game anymore (except if buying again a pass)
It has a sense. Considering the content is installed, a couple of friends would be tempted to buy 1 disk, install the game on both consoles, both going online, paying just 1 game. Basically the disk is "absolutely needed".
No more or less than the actual xbox360. (not hacked lol)
You know what_ I just hope C4EVA will crack the console on the first week, or noone will buy this junk of console

No doubt they are definitely targeting Gamefly and Gamestop.

[Thyleon]

Brnmatt7, on May 24 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

LucasAshrock, on May 24 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

That's exactly how it works. The owner of the disc and the account registered to that disc is the only owner.
You can play with others, and move around your disc between other consoles. Until your account tied to it is logged.
The disk recognize the ownership.
But the trick is allow the new owner to use YOUR disc. (I wouldn't allow a noone who bough my disk to my system, NEVER, not even my brother)
Aka rental market is dead.
Ye you can rent the physical disk. Value=0 , the new owner need a pass. Basically it's like download it from the market online, but instead of download various GBs of datas, you just have to press install and wait a few minutes.
And will be the best choice (accepting the fact you're not gonna sell the digital copy)
So you cannot "try" a game if not using this method (seems)
A solution would be unlock (remove the disk-account bond) the disk. Maybe. (Beware of scams in case lol)
When done, you cannot play with that game anymore (except if buying again a pass)
It has a sense. Considering the content is installed, a couple of friends would be tempted to buy 1 disk, install the game on both consoles, both going online, paying just 1 game. Basically the disk is "absolutely needed".
No more or less than the actual xbox360. (not hacked lol)
You know what_ I just hope C4EVA will crack the console on the first week, or noone will buy this junk of console

No doubt they are definitely targeting Gamefly and Gamestop.

Not really the logical way to go if you want to have the majority of the market or even compete with the other companies. Removing used games and rentals will lose sales dramatically. Not enough exclusives to convince me to not buy the Playstation 4 if I was still into console gaming.

[ShizNit]

[Mickusey]

If I were actually a console gamer and ever ended up considering buying a new console I'd go with the PlayStation 4 anyway. The XBox "One" (that's going to cause some confusion with the original, I bet) reveal was botched and didn't really focus on the one thing that makes one console unique from another and from PCs; the great exclusives. Not that the 360 has that many great exclusives anyway but still, they should have focused on that rather than hyping up gimmicky features that no one is going to ever find that useful. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

[Audible_Silence]

i understand ppl when they say "I get my games from steam" and i am all for that. steam is awesome.... games on steam are also on sale all the time... and thats where the line is drawn... if i remember correctly, there was a sale on steam where you could get a 4-pack of borderlands 2 for 20-30% off if bought individually. that kinda stuff doesnt  happen on console. nobody is going to pay full prce for a game they might not like.

and as for games like MG revengence or devil may cry, why would i pay $60 for somthing i can beat in 10 hours.

[Alastor_Crow]

It's a super awesome high-tech top-of-the-line ground-breaking media center.
















As a game console_ It's nice.

Edited by Alastor_Crow, May 24 2013 - 11:32 PM.

[Thyleon]

Audible_Silence, on May 24 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

i understand ppl when they say "I get my games from steam" and i am all for that. steam is awesome.... games on steam are also on sale all the time... and thats where the line is drawn... if i remember correctly, there was a sale on steam where you could get a 4-pack of borderlands 2 for 20-30% off if bought individually. that kinda stuff doesnt  happen on console. nobody is going to pay full prce for a game they might not like.

and as for games like MG revengence or devil may cry, why would i pay $60 for somthing i can beat in 10 hours.

You assume prices wont drop on Xbox One's marketplace...... Unless it's a title I plan on playing for a long time I don't ever pay full retail price for any title. Especially not titles I play by myself, they can wait and the stories will be just as good as they were initially. On top of that most single player games have additional DLC that releases later which sometimes comes bundled with purchases. That being said PS4 hasn't released to much details on their business models and I'm pretty sure they are going to be using the same model as Xbox One.

I personally don't see the reason in doing this model if you don't completely remove the middle-man (IE; Walmart, GameStop, Best Buy and other retailers). If you don't completely remove them from the picture you cannot offer discounts on games which inevitably will require them to charge the same price at the retailer (Why the games are still $60, If they sold the games cheaper than the retailers selling their games the retailers would get annoyed). However if you switch to a completely digital market you then lose customers because not everyone has a good connection let alone a connection at all like I said. One other major reason Microsoft would be pushing this business model is because didn't win the disc format war. Seeing as they have moved into the Blu-Ray market costs could potentially be higher than last generation to manufacturer games (I don't know the cost to manufacture the HD-DVD, however based on my knowledge of the CD/DVD/BD. BD are cheaper to manufacture than CD/DVD can expand upon if asked too). The major reason games are expensive right now is because of the retailers, so if this is Sony and Microsofts attempts to remove them from the business model then I for one support the initiative.

[Vivacity]

Audible_Silence, on May 23 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Vivacity, on May 22 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Audible_Silence, on May 22 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

the fact that i cannot let my room mate barrow a game, for a few hours while im playing a different one, with him having to pay a fee, which is apparently full price, is ludicrous. I can buy and sell clothes, cars, cell phones, TVs, Art, Blu-rays. so why should games be different.

why would somebody be forced to buy a game they may not like___ what if a game is only 10 hours in length, i sure as hell am not going to pay $60 for it if i can't sell it for $30 to a friend.

Your misunderstanding it, your not able to play a game that was bought digitally unless your logged on to the account you bought it with. If you have the PHYSICAL cd you can play it anywhere. Same as now.
But if its a DIGITAL copy then you have to be logged on to your own account.

"So, think about how you use a disc that you own of an Xbox 360 game. If I buy the disc from a store, I use that disc in my machine, I can give that disc to my son and he can play it on his 360 in his room. We both can't play at the same time, but the disc is the key to playing. I can go round to your house and give you that disc and you can play on that game as well.

What we're doing with the digital permissions that we have for Xbox One is no different to that. If I am playing on that disc, which is installed to the hard drive on my Xbox One, everybody in my household who has permission to use my Xbox One can use that piece of content. [So] I can give that piece of content to my son and he can play it on the same system."

Theres been a lot of confusion but the most recent interview is what I'm quoting.

again
Microsoft's Larry Hryb has issued the following clarification:

Another piece of clarification around playing games at a friend’s house – should you choose to play your game at your friend’s house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile.

What this means is that if you take a game to a friend's house and try to play the game on their system using their account, you'll need to pay. If you take it to their house and try to play it on their system using your account, you won't need to pay."

if you take the physical disc to a friends house, or give it to a room mate, they have to pay for it IF they are not using the disc owners account.

person A buys Hawken, installs it on person As account. Goes to person Bs xbox, logs into Person As account, plays for free. BUT, Log into person Bs account, and Person B now has to pay to play the game.

Stop looking at the old interview and look at the most recent one. There was a load of misunderstanding and he needed to clarify what he originally said.

http://www.computera...games-and-more/
"I think we will always take a customer or player centric view with this and our plans are very consistent with the way the world works today, which is if I buy a disc I can install it on my machine. I can play it and anyone associated with my machine can play it as well. I can give that disc to somebody else - maybe my son who has his own Xbox One somewhere else in the house - and he can install and play it on his machine.


I can come to your house with that disc, I can install it on your machine and we can play it and while I'm with you we can have all of the capabilities of that game. The moment I go home and notionally take that disc with me, you no longer have the ability to play that game. But the 'bits' are on your hard drive, so if you want to play that game you can buy it - you can go to the online store, buy it and it's instantly unlocked and playable on your machine. All of the privileges I just described in my house would now apply in yours as well.

So that's exactly the same as owning a physical disc, it's just the method of distributing the 'bits' slightly changes. We will have a system that will allow you to trade that ownership back in, but we're not announcing the details of that today. But we will have a system for that."

Thats his most recent interview. That clarifys the confusion and the rumors around the idea of cd's.
Thats what im going to go by, not outdated information.

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on May 23 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Yes, i am talking about sales.
Because, let's face it, if the platform doesn't sell very well from the getgo and/or game sales for it don't do well, few game Devs will bother with it beyond whatever initial releases are planned, 'tis a new platform after all.
Not to mention it introduces some new Tech that's not exactly been tested for full worldwide consumer grade usage (streaming from PC, cloud gaming, etc), so the whole project might go kablooey on Nvidia if things go south on them, especially if you consider the time Nvidia often needs to patch things properly.

On a different note, please learn the difference between 'You're' (a contraction of the words 'you are') and Your (as in Your Gameboy, which = possesive)

Cloud gaming isn't exactly new but i get where your going. Theres still gonna be a limit of what developers are gonna do with a Tegra 4.
The streaming from PC is going to most likely fail. You need a GTx 650 or above to use the feature in the first place. Me running a 7850 won't be able to utilize this feature reducing the Shield to a 400 dollar device capable of playing Angry Birds space.

Edited by Vivacity, May 25 2013 - 08:25 AM.

[Thyleon]

Vivacity, on May 25 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Audible_Silence, on May 23 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Vivacity, on May 22 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Audible_Silence, on May 22 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

the fact that i cannot let my room mate barrow a game, for a few hours while im playing a different one, with him having to pay a fee, which is apparently full price, is ludicrous. I can buy and sell clothes, cars, cell phones, TVs, Art, Blu-rays. so why should games be different.

why would somebody be forced to buy a game they may not like___ what if a game is only 10 hours in length, i sure as hell am not going to pay $60 for it if i can't sell it for $30 to a friend.

Your misunderstanding it, your not able to play a game that was bought digitally unless your logged on to the account you bought it with. If you have the PHYSICAL cd you can play it anywhere. Same as now.
But if its a DIGITAL copy then you have to be logged on to your own account.

"So, think about how you use a disc that you own of an Xbox 360 game. If I buy the disc from a store, I use that disc in my machine, I can give that disc to my son and he can play it on his 360 in his room. We both can't play at the same time, but the disc is the key to playing. I can go round to your house and give you that disc and you can play on that game as well.

What we're doing with the digital permissions that we have for Xbox One is no different to that. If I am playing on that disc, which is installed to the hard drive on my Xbox One, everybody in my household who has permission to use my Xbox One can use that piece of content. [So] I can give that piece of content to my son and he can play it on the same system."

Theres been a lot of confusion but the most recent interview is what I'm quoting.

again
Microsoft's Larry Hryb has issued the following clarification:

Another piece of clarification around playing games at a friend’s house – should you choose to play your game at your friend’s house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile.

What this means is that if you take a game to a friend's house and try to play the game on their system using their account, you'll need to pay. If you take it to their house and try to play it on their system using your account, you won't need to pay."

if you take the physical disc to a friends house, or give it to a room mate, they have to pay for it IF they are not using the disc owners account.

person A buys Hawken, installs it on person As account. Goes to person Bs xbox, logs into Person As account, plays for free. BUT, Log into person Bs account, and Person B now has to pay to play the game.

Stop looking at the old interview and look at the most recent one. There was a load of misunderstanding and he needed to clarify what he originally said.

http://www.computera...games-and-more/
"I think we will always take a customer or player centric view with this and our plans are very consistent with the way the world works today, which is if I buy a disc I can install it on my machine. I can play it and anyone associated with my machine can play it as well. I can give that disc to somebody else - maybe my son who has his own Xbox One somewhere else in the house - and he can install and play it on his machine.


I can come to your house with that disc, I can install it on your machine and we can play it and while I'm with you we can have all of the capabilities of that game. The moment I go home and notionally take that disc with me, you no longer have the ability to play that game. But the 'bits' are on your hard drive, so if you want to play that game you can buy it - you can go to the online store, buy it and it's instantly unlocked and playable on your machine. All of the privileges I just described in my house would now apply in yours as well.

So that's exactly the same as owning a physical disc, it's just the method of distributing the 'bits' slightly changes. We will have a system that will allow you to trade that ownership back in, but we're not announcing the details of that today. But we will have a system for that."

Thats his most recent interview. That clarifys the confusion and the rumors around the idea of cd's.
Thats what im going to go by, not outdated information.

You aren't reading the interview correctly, "The moment I go home and notionally take that disc with me, you no longer have the ability to play that game." Meaning the moment I remove my account from your console and take the disc with me, you no longer have the ability to play that game. If this was not tied directly to your account then you could essentially cheat the system and get two games for one. I would link the game to my account and then sell the disc, if it was capable to be played without my account on the system.

Your account is the only thing that recognizes your location, that being said there are also exploits to this marketing system. If you have a close friend and family that you trust you guys could also just trade accounts for a moment in time until you beat certain games and then trade accounts back.

Edited by Thyleon, May 25 2013 - 08:25 AM.

[Audible_Silence]

yeah, that says what was said before... the disc is still tied to an account.

if PS4 and xbox do this.. then i dunno why ppl would bother... PC sales would sky rocket...

[Thyleon]

Audible_Silence, on May 25 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

yeah, that says what was said before... the disc is still tied to an account.

if PS4 and xbox do this.. then i dunno why ppl would bother... PC sales would sky rocket...

Just means they'll have to offer competitive prices with that of Steam to have a good turnout.

[Teljaxx]

Overall, the XBone looks to me like it is going to be an incredible failure as a game console. With a hilarious flop of a reveal, "innovative" new features that are sure to be more annoying that useful, no backwards compatibility, and their idiotic DRM systems, I will be surprised if it does anything other than go down in flames.

The major issue I have with how games will be account bound on the XBone is not with limiting borrowing games, but what happens after you are done with them. Now, if you want to give a game to a friend once you are done playing it, you will also have to give them access to your entire account. Not to mention that if you want to let someone borrow your game long term, even if you want to get it back at some point, you also have to give them acess for that entire time. Meaning that you cannot play any other games that are tied to that account while your friend has access to it. And of course this will destroy the rental and used games market for the console, which I just know is primarily why they are doing this.

I think I will just stick with my PC games and avoid this trainwreck of a console, thank you very much.

Also, HD DVDs have nothing to do with Microsoft. They were from Toshiba.

Edited by Teljaxx, May 25 2013 - 11:27 PM.

[ShizNit]

I like the controllers though! :3

[Thyleon]

Teljaxx, on May 25 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

Also, HD DVDs have nothing to do with Microsoft. They were from Toshiba.

That's right, I forgot about the expandable HDDVD-D, so then yes even switching to BD, they should be saving money or at least on par with their costs for manufacturing DVDs. Just depends on what company they send to work out too.