72 replies to this topic

[ShadowWarg]

If they make a secondary version of the EOC, I want it to be a single shot projectile that travels like the RPG mode of the Corsair, sticks to and an all surfaces including mechs. No timer detonation. No Mine function. And has manual donation. And you cant fire it again until the previous bomb fired has exploded.

[hoghead]

DaPheel, on July 11 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

I want an A class with the EOC as a secondary, and the Heat Cannon as a Primary. Because Explosions.

It should probably have cooldown as it's ability. Certainley for my one.

@ Devs - just so you know I make a mean Steak and Sausage pie, with little pickled silverskin onions in it. I bake a  good chocolate cake too. You all know how it works - you look after me, I bribe you with rich food.....

My left arms going numb already, and the steak and sausage pie sounds good too!

[Wondrz]

Naw. i want DUO EOC's I Will slay people who are repairing and the SPAM, OH THE SPAM. MEAT EVERYWHERE

Spam you get it_

[DaPheel]

Wondrz, on July 12 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

Naw. i want DUO EOC's I Will slay people who are repairing and the SPAM, OH THE SPAM. MEAT EVERYWHERE

Spam you get it_

Because Explosions_

[Akaon]

Could be interesting, but I'd hate a secondary that requires charging. Also, heat+eoc would be really silly, having 2 weapons that can charge.

[Wondrz]

DaPheel, on July 12 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Wondrz, on July 12 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

Naw. i want DUO EOC's I Will slay people who are repairing and the SPAM, OH THE SPAM. MEAT EVERYWHERE

Spam you get it_

Because Explosions_

No.
This

[Garx]

Leonhardt, on July 11 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

Perhaps they will release another version of the EOC as a secondary and nerf the primary one a bit. That could be very interesting, but only time will tell. I really want to see new weapons that are innovative like the EOC.

  leon_ kitty

[Leonhardt]

Garx, on July 12 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

leon_ kitty

Never fear kitty is here!

Edited by Leonhardt, July 13 2013 - 03:39 AM.

[FakeName]

DO NOT TOUCH DAT EOC!!! The EOC is a great weapon (maybe another version of it as secondary .. fine but why_ GL is also quite effective). And why you guys want the EOC nerfed again_ If you want the EOC beeing nerfed then I want the Flak beeing nerfed as well. because the EOC needs pretty much skill to hit every 6 pucks on a mech (dircet hit) if the mech is moving or dodging. The Flak needs almost no skill, like every other Shotgun as well. If you miss then it's no problem because short reload time + projectile spread.

Also, this topic was just about EOC as secondary and not about nerfing it.

My opinion to this topic.

Well, EOC as secondary_ Why not 2 EOC_ Wouldn't it be great_

[Wondrz]

I SAY NO TO LE NERFING ZE EOC's IT ALREADY GOT ZE NERF BAT.

[Leonhardt]

Wondrz, on July 13 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

I SAY NO TO LE NERFING ZE EOC's IT ALREADY GOT ZE NERF BAT.

Psssshhht you call that a nerf_ Look at the heat cannon for serious nerfs. lol

[FakeName]

Leonhardt, on July 13 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

Wondrz, on July 13 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:

I SAY NO TO LE NERFING ZE EOC's IT ALREADY GOT ZE NERF BAT.

Psssshhht you call that a nerf_ Look at the heat cannon for serious nerfs. lol :P

Heat cannon is still pretty okey though, But don't nerf dat EOC >:( it already got nerfed.

Edited by FakeName, July 13 2013 - 05:27 AM.

[Wondrz]

210 = 180, big nerf bro, but srsly pls no nerf, i like EOC's tooo much

[FakeName]

Wondrz, on July 13 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

210 = 180, big nerf bro, but srsly pls no nerf, i like EOC's tooo much

Me too, I really like the EOC, mostly because of denying enemies to use special ways, if they do, they will be damaged pretty well

[Leonhardt]

I hate to break it to you guys, but it is likely that the EOC will receive a slight reduction in damage. As far as I can tell the general consensus among the community is that the EOC is still a tad bit too strong. In all honesty I think its a good thing that ADH didn't hit EOC hard with the first nerf because now they can put it into a good place like the heat cannon.

The heat has been nerfed a ton and now it is in its arguably best place ever. I still think the no increased damage while charging is BS, but I like the heat where it is and thats coming from a heat user before and after it was nerfed.

I know that there is always the argument "but EOC is hard to use so it deserves to have such high rewards" and thats true, but there is a point where the rewards are too high. In my opinion EOC is just outside of that range of comfortability. I've used the EOC a lot since the old days when it was considered to be one of the worst weapons in the game.

A slight reduction in damage to each puck would probably bring it in line with the other "high skill" weapons. Plus it would probably help with reducing the effectiveness of EOC raiders which have been too strong for a while now. IDK why nobody seems to notice that... lol

[FakeName]

@ Leon

If you wanna reduce the EOC's dmg, pelase do it with the FLak too, The Flak needs no aiming skills and has almost the same damage rewards like the EOC. It's really BS that the HEAT does not increase its damage if charged but I think the HEAT will become a better Prestige weapon for an Inflitrator or an Raider than the EOC will be if nerfed again. I play Hawken because it's extreme, extreme in movement, damage and the extreme short duration of time you get to think what you are doing next in combat. I was very dissappointed to hear, that the Hawken gameplay got a nerf because some people said "it was too fast" (I wasn't there when it happened, I just heard about that). If you keep nerfing Hawken it will end up in League of Legends, a quite boring game. TTK is really too high, no adrenaline boosts, no extreme situations, no skill needed anymore.

But I also don't want Hawken to end up like Combat Arms. One-hit-headshot-kill (sniper camping). That's what Hawken shall never be, The TTK is much longer than in every other FPS game, wich I really like, but I think it shall stay in the middle between the Combat Arms "one-hit-headshot-kills" and the League of Legends "1 minute to kill a tank TTK"

However, why always thinking about nerfing one weapon_ Why not increasing HP of some mechs (wich already is done) or implement new items against explosion weapons_ (something like a new abillity, support item etc.) But in general I stopped playing games because they got nerfed too hard. Started with a cool, fast game, ended up in a slowly boring one. :l

Edited by FakeName, July 13 2013 - 06:00 AM.

[Leonhardt]

FakeName, on July 13 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

However, why always thinking about nerfing one weapon_ Why not increasing HP of some mechs (wich already is done) or implement new items against explosion weapons_ (something like a new abillity, support item etc.)

Well first I'll just say that I think the flak is too strong right now, but for very different reasons. The EOC needs a minor tweak like a reduction of 5-10 damage per puck. I know that can add up, but thats the point. As it is the EOC does more damage than some secondaries in the game which is unprecedented for primaries regardless of skill. The flak doesn't have that problem so fixing it is even easier. Just reduce damage slightly and decrease ROF by a bit which will bring it in line. The problem with the flak stems from high damage and ease of use. Make the ROF harder to deal with and decrease damage some then the problem should be close to fixed.

It is a bad habbit to increase or decrease all mech's HP (or any other major macro element of a game) to account for 1 or 2 weapons in a game. Many veteran pilots have asked that the game be returned to CB2 speeds (faster) and I think that ADH is looking in to making at the very least some kind of compromise.

[FakeName]

Some math:

-5 damage per Puck 5*6 = 30 ; 180 - 30 = 150 ...
Worst case:
-10 damage per Puck 10*6 = 60 ; 180 - 60 = 120 for a FULLY CHARGED EOC!!! this is way too weak for a prestige weapon!!!

A Puck deals 30 dmg so if you would decrease its damage for 10 hit points you would decrease the "hit- damage" by 33,33%
If you would decrease the damage overall of the EOC, The EOC mines (stick on the ground) would deal dmg like followed:

EOC pucks (mines):

-5 damage per Puck 5*6 = 30 ; 120 - 30 = 90
-10 damage per Puck 10*6 = 60 ; 120 - 60 = 60 (Heat cannon deals 80 damage (90 charged))

You decrease the EOC damage by 50% if damage is reduced by 10, this is also way too much + The HEAT would be a better weapon then, Raiders or Inflitrators are simple, cuddle targets with an EOC.

[Leonhardt]

5 damage per puck was really where I was going with this. I was just giving a range as an example. Also EOC and HEAT are not prestige weapons. Prestige weapons do not exist in Hawken. Every mech has 3 primaries to choose from, but none are "prestige" which would imply that they must be better than their counterparts. 120 damage is massive for a primary and be honest it doesn't take long to charge the EOC and all users keep it fully charged most of the time.

I mean if you are seriously going to sit there and tell me that 120 damage is weak on a primary weapon I just... mind = blown. Also your advice about cuddling Raiders is awful. Don't do that anyone who reads this please for the love of god don't do that. Outplaying an EOC user that is proficient takes a lot more than "cuddling the target." I don't want to write out how to do it in most situations since that would take at least a pages worth of information to thoroughly address.

Edited by Leonhardt, July 13 2013 - 06:57 AM.

[FakeName]

With cuddling I mean "not dangerous anymore"

120 for a primary is not much, Look at the Point-D Vulcan around 100 Damager per second.
Look at the current DPS of the EOC: 60, reduce this for 33,33% DPS:40 (with a direct hit) Rate of fire 0.67 (0.33 charged)

Try to play with the EOC and hit every 6 pucks every time. It won't happen so reduce some damage from the EOC. maybe 25% or even 33,33% However, the EOC will not be the weapon anymore as it is now, if you wanna nerf it that hard again. The EOC is and shall pelase stay the best burst weapon ingame.

Quote

• The Repeater has the highest initial burst of any primary weapon assuming a full charge and direct hits with every round.

[Source: Hawken wiki]


Why you even wanna nerf it_ it is not even close overpowered. The Flak is, but you already aggreed on that.

PS: some people read it like this: "The Repeater has the highest initial burst of any primary weapon assuming a full charge and direct hits with every round"

Edited by FakeName, July 13 2013 - 07:06 AM.