183 replies to this topic

[N0stalgia]

For the record, I do NOT wish to be a part of the HAB - and by that I mean I would refuse the invitation if it were even given. I am not a programmer or a game designer. I have no experience with game testing other than Hawken closed alpha and beta. And in them, I merely played - eyes glued to the screen in the glory of the vanquished. That being said...

I'd play Hawken with broken mechanics. I'd play Hawken with map exploits. I'd play Hawken balanced or unbalanced - and I'd play the underdog-mech to play "hard mode". I would voice my opinion in the forums, as I have - hoping the devs know better. The bottom line is that I do not believe in separating a community of beta players (note that I did not say testers) into groups of the haves and have nots.  I participated in the podcast where the HAB was announced, but my voice was never heard and none of my questions were answered. I, like many of you, have been interested in Hawken since I saw its first trailer. I knew it would be special. It is the first game I've been so involved with that this is the first - and only - forum I have ever participated in.

I realize that the devs cannot go back to a closed beta now that it has been opened. Furthermore, I understand that they cannot and will not release a patch or product that is not fully realized. I also understand the potential value the HAB can bring to a final product. However, I also see now how alienating it is to its quiet, yet devoted following.

As it stands now, there is only one forum that matters - and that is the HAB forum. If we all cannot participate in the HAB, we should be able to know what is being said by the player base selected. Don't we all deserve readable access to the HAB forum even if we cannot post in it_

I miss the days of UT glory. So far, only Hawken stands a chance of bringing that awesomeness back to PC gaming. I think ALL the active players in Hawken want the game to be as successful as any HAB member. Adhesive and Meteor say some players are more deserving of an opinion. I say they've made a mistake.

[Chancellor]

[Pastorius]

I'm sorry but I don't think that the HAB has divided the community. I think that the community is doing that by itself with threads such as this one.

I understand your point about the HAB forum and it would be interesting but opening it up to the rest of the community would allow it to become bias by it. This would negate its point. It reminds me of the old saying; "A camel is just a horse designed by a committee."

Apart from one or two, on a whole the HAB members have been very quiet and have not spoken about their appointments on the forum. This is how it should be. I applaud those members for this and wish them luck.

Whereas I perhaps don't fully agree with the idea of the HAB, I think we can best serve the game and the community by allowing them to continue their work with our support.

Edited by Pastorius, July 30 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[dorobo]

With comeback of mayhem servers and HAB in progress there is a noticable lack of players in main game other than that we will see how it will play out when the patch drops. I hope it's not months away..

[Roundlay]

Pastorius, on July 30 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

I'm sorry but I don't think that the HAB has divided the community. I think that the community is doing that by itself with threads such as this one.

I do understand that you're speaking to the tone of recent discourse here, however HAB is structurally divisive by its very nature. I think this is what OP is touching on by pointing out some of the psychological and social effects of splitting up a community when the boss chooses favourites. (Perceptually, at least; I know this is fallacious.) With this in mind, I don't think it's particularly fair to charge people that are simply putting forward their opinions on the topic with dividing the community.

Anyway, I can see the benefits of a small, sectioned off group, such that it is, but at least as far as forum discourse is concerned, I think it's troublesome. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[XiTiX]

This type of testing is quite common, seriously please grow up and deal with it - it is only good for the game.
For one person who is capable of handling content at various level of completion there will be ten who will say the game is fuzzy bunny and leave.

[Roundlay]

XiTiX, on July 30 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

This type of testing is quite common, seriously please grow up and deal with it - it is only good for the game.
For one person who is capable of handling content at various level of completion there will be ten who will say the game is fuzzy bunny and leave.

Not intending to be picky or combative at all here, but can you offer up some the games that've made use of similar player inclusive testing_ Am interested to see how this' been handled in the past.

[Xacius]

The HAB was formed for a reason... It's specific, buggy content that should see as little of the community as possible (Hughes' words, I'm just paraphrasing).

Rest assured that a wide variety of players, both skilled and casual, have been chosen for testing the new content.  I won't reveal anything about it content-wise, as I'm under NDA, but balancing a new build is surely more work than play.

[FakeName]

Hopefully the HAB will focus on the game.. We can't change anything, even If I don't really like that either. But however, if the game gets worse I just leave (aka League of Legends - game of social bans), I still have other games and a life.

[Pastorius]

Roundlay, on July 30 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

Pastorius, on July 30 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

I'm sorry but I don't think that the HAB has divided the community. I think that the community is doing that by itself with threads such as this one.

I do understand that you're speaking to the tone of recent discourse here, however HAB is structurally divisive by its very nature. I think this is what OP is touching on by pointing out some of the psychological and social effects of splitting up a community when the boss chooses favourites. (Perceptually, at least; I know this is fallacious.) With this in mind, I don't think it's particularly fair to charge people that are simply putting forward their opinions on the topic with dividing the community.

Anyway, I can see the benefits of a small, sectioned off group, such that it is, but at least as far as forum discourse is concerned, I think it's troublesome. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I think then that perhaps choosing to title the post "A rant against..." was unwise_ I understand your point though Roundlay and I meant no offence to the OP but yes, I do grow tired of recent "rants" and arguments in the forum. I find them both unhelpful and counter productive.

I fully agree that it is the psychological and social effects that are the problem here but surely that is down to the individual and how they perceive what is happening. It's not the job of the developers to anticipate that the community is perhaps not emotionally ready to deal with the rejection or the psychosomatic sense of segregation that their decisions may bring.  

You make a valid and learned point though Roundlay and thanks for making it.

Edited by Pastorius, July 30 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[SS396]

N0stalgia, on July 30 2013 - 12:24 AM, said:

As it stands now, there is only one forum that matters - and that is the HAB forum. If we all cannot participate in the HAB, we should be able to know what is being said by the player base selected. Don't we all deserve readable access to the HAB forum even if we cannot post in it_

Sorry but I don't think thats possible, for example, back when the alpha was going on, there was a separate area for only alpha members that the rest of the users on the forums could not access, when the alpha was over that area of the forums was hidden from everyone.  I feel that since theres no mention of new stuff, the people who have been invited are under a NDA, which means, they can't disclose anything, and are not really supposed to say, they are even in the HAB.  It sucks, its like knowing what you are going to get for christmas and having to wait a month to actually play with it.  Its even worse if you've been picked and one of your friends hasn't cause you can't talk to them about things.

All I can say is sit back and hope that those people in the group help the game get better so everyone is happier.  Don't think about it in the way that its favoritism or eliteness, its mostly luck, and quality of your personal suggestions, bug reports, and overall time playing the game.   Either way, the dev's and the community manager still look at all the other areas of the forums.

[DerMax]

As a person who has been in a similar situation (but with another game), I can say that the HAB is the best option imaginable, because the general public is too dumb to be effective as testers and devs are oblivious to some high-level balance aspects. So having a bunch of hardcore players working out bugs, glitches and the balance point is the way to go.

[XiTiX]

Roundlay, on July 30 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

XiTiX, on July 30 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

This type of testing is quite common, seriously please grow up and deal with it - it is only good for the game.
For one person who is capable of handling content at various level of completion there will be ten who will say the game is fuzzy bunny and leave.

Not intending to be picky or combative at all here, but can you offer up some the games that've made use of similar player inclusive testing_ Am interested to see how this' been handled in the past.

World of tanks would be a good example - they call it supertest. Supertest has been around since 2011 as far as I know (maybe earlier). Off course the european version of it got scrapped due to leaks, but the russian is still running.

[ropefish]

i knew this would happen =_=

[hawkendestroyer]

DerMax, on July 30 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

As a person who has been in a similar situation (but with another game), I can say that the HAB is the best option imaginable, because the general public is too dumb to be effective as testers and devs are oblivious to some high-level balance aspects. So having a bunch of hardcore players working out bugs, glitches and the balance point is the way to go.

Want to make a game created by the elite is wrong ... The Meteor already did this by choosing a select group of players for alpha and closed beta and gave a current bad quality. The Meteor forgetting that this game was done to be a f2p and none if keeps alive only with players hardcore. This game can not exclude the views of new players, because it relies almost exclusively these to stay alive.

Edited by hawkendestroyer, July 30 2013 - 03:02 AM.

[hendman]

Roundlay, on July 30 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

XiTiX, on July 30 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

This type of testing is quite common, seriously please grow up and deal with it - it is only good for the game.
For one person who is capable of handling content at various level of completion there will be ten who will say the game is fuzzy bunny and leave.

Not intending to be picky or combative at all here, but can you offer up some the games that've made use of similar player inclusive testing_ Am interested to see how this' been handled in the past.

Eve Online has a test server running along side the normal servers. A couple of times a year they mirror the player database to the test server environment, and everybody whos account was mirrored and has a full account can access the test server. To lure players into the test server all items in there cost only 100 isk (where prices in the real game can go up to billions and then some).

That being said, the developer of Eve Online is not so paranoid about revealing possible new content/features as ADH is. Months before an actual game update is released there are dev blogs, video blogs, and of course the test server. New content which is under development and being tested is freely discussed on the forums and in the normal game.

HAB is totally different with its NDA, and its most annoying feature is people who are in the HAB group, posting on these forums saying that they can't say anything. They ask for the "normal" players to trust them, but these are left in the dark with absolutely no information about what is going on.  The producer letter mentioned that the player base would be informed about the new patch "very soon"........but it has been two weeks or more since it was posted, and no new information has been revealed yet.

We probably will have to watch The Cockpit, or follow the PAX conventions to get any information........as ususal

[FakeName]

Why not make it World of Warplanes style_ I was Closed Beta tester (now it's Open Beta). It works really well, I don't get it why they make a HAB now o:

[Pastorius]

Quote

it's most annoying feature is people who are in the HAB group, posting on these forums

I do agree that this shouldn't be happening as it only serves to perpetuate the illusion of segregation and adds fuel to the communities desire to separate themselves into a class system.

In fact, the more I think about this situation, the more I come to realise that it is just natural human behaviour playing out beautifully in this community. The working class (the regular gamers) battling the middle class (the HAB) as they try to widen the divide and impress the upper class (ADH)

[G4M5T3R]

*fixed url*

Edited by G4M5T3R, July 30 2013 - 03:49 AM.