183 replies to this topic

[FakeName]

G4M5T3R, on July 30 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

*Broken link*

Wut_

[Leonhardt]

HAB is all about constructive feedback. This kind of stuff is the exact reason why it even exists.

[h0B0]

I honestly believe a HAB like testing environment is essential to any games competitive and long-term success. And this is easily demonstrable both starcraft titles worked closely on balancing the game with their top tiered players. So did street fighter and LoL. Getting the best of the best to share their knowledge of the game helps the devs work out all the possible exploits that might arise from ill informed balance.

However as i have stated in the past, ever since the announcement of HAB from hughes on the cockpit i knew it would create negativity in the community. From my understanding it isn't there to adress purely balance changes and therefore shouldn't be limited to the elite. Furthermore, some players are bound to be butthurt at not being selected and should never have known there was a special test group. It doesn't provide a good platform to help the communication between hawkenites and devs and only serves to reinforce the disconnect that is/was already present.

Best case scenario would be to have 2 open servers. 1 with the "live bug free balanced" game. And 2 is an open test realm where people of all backgrounds can comment on the new features about to be implemented in their Favorite_ game. All this whilst leaving pure balance decision in the hands of the .01%

[G4M5T3R]

FakeName, on July 30 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

G4M5T3R, on July 30 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

*Broken link*

Wut_

I posted a broken link. Then fixed it.

[Roundlay]

hendman, on July 30 2013 - 03:02 AM, said:

Eve Online has a test server running along side the normal servers. A couple of times a year they mirror the player database to the test server environment, and everybody whos account was mirrored and has a full account can access the test server.

...

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Great example of systems that involve players in the testing process. As you point out, Singularity is systemically quite different from HAB's current set up, being open to the public, but I really like CCP's approach to testing content in this way; the people who want to dig deeper will be there and those that don't, won't. The whole playerbase thing helps too, I'm sure.

Also a great point re. HAB motivating these saying-everything-and-nothing style posts—"I'm in HAB. I'm in your post. I can't really comment on why you're wrong. Just trust me."—potentially detrimental to discussion on the vanilla forums going forward.

[FakeName]

@ HOBO If there is just one unbalanced game in this world, then it's LoL.
And if there was any kind of HAB, then they did no good work.

[Leonhardt]

FakeName, on July 30 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

@ HOBO If there is just one unbalanced game in this world, then it's LoL.
And if there was any kind of HAB, then they did no good work.

LoL is based around imbalance to create a meta game. It is a highly successful and engaging way to make a multiplayer game constantly evolving.

Perfect balance is boring and stale while perfect imbalance creates constantly evolving meta games.

[FakeName]

This is kind of off topic now but do you really wanna tell me it's good to have imbalance_ Like getting passively 25% of attack dmg while the ADC needs tonnes of gold for that_
Then the EOC needs to have its 210 burst damage back as you said imbalance is succesful.

[HideyoshiYaoi]

I just think it's retarded that we can't know what's going on. I'm thinking meteor is just trolling us. Not a single screenshot or substantive release of information in ages. WE KNOW YOU HAVE THE ART DONE FOR THE NEW MECH. JUST POST A FRIGGIN SCREENSHOT

[Leonhardt]

FakeName, on July 30 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

This is kind of off topic now but do you really wanna tell me it's good to have imbalance_ Like getting passively 25% of attack dmg while the ADC needs tonnes of gold for that_
Then the EOC needs to have its 210 burst damage back as you said imbalance is succesful.

Perfect imbalance is about making slight changes to balance in order to create a meta game. Creating a clearly superior weapon as you have suggested is not perfect imbalance in LoL, Hawken or any other game. How much of LoL have you played/understood_ The game has a lot of player knowledge that needs to be learned before one can really understand the changing metas fast enough to actually take advantage of them.

Edited by Leonhardt, July 30 2013 - 04:36 AM.

[DaPheel]

I think HAB is necessary, for the same reasons that the closed alpha was. There are things that won't make it to the final cut, and people who never got to try them will be upset if others are freely discussing it. We'd spend all our time mourning the potential "might have beens"

Better to keep it quiet with a small test group.

[FakeName]

@Leon for LoL I played around 1800-2000 games (normal, ranked) + ARAM abit but however, LoL is not about skill anymore, it's about thinking and strategy, PURE! Hawken is an FPS so skill should be the most important thing. Strategy is not so important right now as Hawken is not a strategy game. Also in LoL it's just about how to counter and how good the team is, while Hawken is about action, adrenaline and the skill of each pilot in every fight. One mistake may lead to a lose, while in LoL it does not matter if you are good or not, if the team is dumb, you will lose and your rating will go down.

PS: there are many things in LoL wich are clearly owning, aka Darius.

[Leonhardt]

FakeName, on July 30 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

@Leon for LoL I played around 1800-2000 games (normal, ranked) + ARAM abit but however, LoL is not about skill anymore, it's about thinking and strategy, PURE! Hawken is an FPS so skill should be the most important thing. Strategy is not so important right now as Hawken is not a strategy game. Also in LoL it's just about how to counter and how good the team is, while Hawken is about action, adrenaline and the skill of each pilot in every fight. One mistake may lead to a lose, while in LoL it does not matter if you are good or not, if the team is dumb, you will lose and your rating will go down.

PS: there are many things in LoL wich are clearly owning, aka Darius.

Eh errr...... *sigh* you are entitled to your opinion. We are clearly off topic so lets leave it at that.

[ropefish]

people worry to much, this is what i get from the last two topics about HAB













p.s. the list of people reading his scares me

[Immortal009]

I don't understand any of this stupidity. Just play the game and have fun, then try to have even more fun when the new content comes out.

It seems like the devs tried to reassure the community by announcing the HAB but it looks like they shouldn't have even bothered seeing as how many people are crying about how they feel uninformed.

[KyRoS]

I agree about letting us see what's being said in the forums. Make it so you have to have a registered account to see it, but those of us who play and many of whom have paid for things like founders packs and have large amount of time certainly deserve to know what's going on and what decisions are being made. When there are test servers, the forums are generally available to all. I don't have the time to really be an involved tester, but would certainly like to know what's going on with the progress of the game.

And really, the worst thing is just being kept in the dark. All these new changes and we can't get a bit of info_ Our new community manager is supposed to be the man, now in Cali, on-site and ready to roll out info, yet we've not seen a screenshot of the new map, UI, mech... no hint of the progression system, internals, etc. I'd be even OK without seeing the forums of there was just the slightest bit of communication.

If you want to see how communication is done correctly, look at Marvel Heroes or Loadout. The devs post stuff all day long and are very active in so many threads. They are both small companies in general, but they have show dedication to their community. I have given them both money because I respect this. The silence is what irks me personally. That's one reason I gave up on Blizzard. They never communicate and when they do, it's some generic response. Try keeping it real. Those of us who have played 100's of hours understand it's tough making a game, realize the problems that have plagued this game, and are behind you guys. But how about throwing us a bone here and there_ Like I said, some screenshots or just a bit more info. Get your community manager involved in the actual community.

Edited by KyRoS, July 30 2013 - 05:35 AM.

[ArachII]

I am totally for  the HAB, even if I am not included in it. Hell, I am far from being a good bug/glitch hunter, and many people are more efficient than me for this kind of tasks. I contribute rarely on the forum, since multiple players say in a better and more constructive way what I thought.  It is a good thing I am not a HAB tester.

The problem I see actually is that the next patch will change so much the game, that there is no real reason to debate or discuss about the actual non-HAB version of Hawken. Non-HAB players are just waiting and speculating, having no desire to talk on the forums. If the HAB was some kind of Starcraft II balance test map, where only balance or small changes are tested to gather information before implementation in the game, normal players would have a reason to discuss about the features not affected by the balance test.

On a side note to these HAB members:
I don't know if any of you has brought this concern, but what will become the "Brand new internals" in the next internal system_ They are a nice little help for beginners, and like their strength decrease as the new player skills increase, they act as a tricycle until the newcomers are experienced enough. In my opinion, the Brand new internals are a better solution for beginners than the countermeasures. I don't ask you guys to give us answers, or say it is no more required or been brought to the HAB forums. I just don't want them to be forgotten. If this was already discussed, please ignore this whole paragraph and accept my sincere apologies. Keep the good work, HABs!

h0B0, on July 30 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

Best case scenario would be to have 2 open servers. 1 with the "live bug free balanced" game. And 2 is an open test realm where people of all backgrounds can comment on the new features about to be implemented in their Favorite_ game. All this whilst leaving pure balance decision in the hands of the .01%

Exactly what I thought!

To conclude, HAB should allow developers to test multiple scenarios in the same time, which is a great thing. However,  the actual state of the HAB makes discussing about the actual state of the open-beta version a bit useless. This is why I believe some people feel like they are useless and excluded.
*Edit: should have read twice hOBO, clearly a good summary of my opinion

Edited by ArachII, July 30 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[ropefish]

you notice how there is always disagreement when threads like this are made, its really fun to watch the fight  go back and forth

[EliteShooter]

[Ysenberg]

Hi guys!

Let me break a lance for the HAB-idea...

This is a game in _beta-testing_  state and we are allowed to play it for free, right_
There are many people playing Hawken atm, so a lot of data comes in from testing.
Some people are good at "translating" the ingame glitches and bugs to a bugreport, and some aren't.

So what could be a better plan than to select some people that are above average at reporting and describing bugs in order to nail the issues with a new content-patch_

I enjoy playing Hawken as it is, but that won't keep me from wanting the best game i can have - no matter if i'm part of the HAB or not.
I was a tester for other, closed betas and i know the chores of finding bugs and pinning them to the fixing board. Trust me when i say that i'm happy to be part of an OPEN beta now.
If they should call me into the HAB i'll be fine with it and do my best. Otherwise i just have fun playing the game
Like Spiderman's uncle said."With great power comes great responsibility!"

Best regards from the land of the Intershop

Ysen

Edited by Ysenberg, July 30 2013 - 06:59 AM.