183 replies to this topic

[M4st0d0n]

Yeah back in the days people never bothered to fill a proper bug report and were just trolling the forums, leaving devs with a serious shortage of gamedata and serious feedback. Then cockpit show reveals new patch and HAB, and it's joy in every hearts for a whole week. And then a few topics on the forum about mildly upset dedicated guys trying to understand why they weren't picked by the lottery of Hawken forced labor, and it's the forum war again.

Beside that...

THANKS A LOT HAB MEMBERS TO WORK FOR US! For three players ranting here there will be a hundred in game getting a better game experience because of you.

[Roundlay]

HideyoshiYaoi, on July 31 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

I would say a readable hab forum and discussions outside of that forum regarding hab content on this site are not allowed_

RedVan pretty much nailed why giving the community eyes only access to the HAB forums is problematic.

HideyoshiYaoi, on July 31 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

Some of us just want to know what the eff is going on and not be left in the dark... Not all of the people that were left out of hab are blubbering idiots incapable of deducing test settings and real stuff.

You hit on what I think is the most troublesome part of the current arrangement, but I think it's pretty clear that Adhesive didn't invite players based on testing proficiency. Judging by what some HABs have said thus far, being a vocal member of the forums/community was the major factor in their selection.

[Roundlay]

M4st0d0n, on July 31 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

Yeah back in the days people never bothered to fill a proper bug report and were just trolling the forums, leaving devs with a serious shortage of gamedata and serious feedback.

BS. Source: was in Alpha 2, etc.

[M4st0d0n]

Roundlay, on July 31 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

M4st0d0n, on July 31 2013 - 04:56 AM, said:

Yeah back in the days people never bothered to fill a proper bug report and were just trolling the forums, leaving devs with a serious shortage of gamedata and serious feedback.

BS. Source: was in Alpha 2, etc.

Was not talking about you speciffically but hey...
Good luck for HAB's next round. Hope you'll work as hard for us as they are right now.

[ReachH]

Roundlay, you've been complaining about favouritism and exclusivism ever since the dev Q&A. It doesn't surprise me that you'd be all over this topic. [font=comic sans ms,cursive]This isn't a social movement, this is an open beta test.[/font]

BiO, on July 30 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

For me... The main problem was the way HAB was handled from the beginning by ADH. It should not have been announced to all the members, but should have kept a low profile. The member that got in, shouldn't be able to announce that they got in, this only causes that the members who didn't got in HAB, feel like they were excluded from a important part of information about the game.
-snip-

True, but if they didn't announce it, and it did get out, wouldn't people still make noise_ Kind of a 'dead if you do and dead if you ain't' scenario.

[font=comic sans ms, cursive]I think people are missing the crucial (and exceedingly obvious) point that [/font]this is a big step in the right direction.[font=comic sans ms, cursive] The sense of entitlement and moral justice being paraded around in this thread is Comic... COMIC SANS MOFOS. EAT IT.[/font]

Edited by ReachH, July 31 2013 - 05:25 AM.

[onehourleft]

ReachH, on July 31 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

This isn't a social movement, this is an open beta test.

Best line in this whole thread!  I want it on a T-shirt.

[RedVan]

HideyoshiYaoi, on July 31 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

I would say a readable hab forum and discussions outside of that forum regarding hab content on this site are not allowed_

Some of us just want to know what the eff is going on and not be left in the dark...

Not all of the people that were left out of hab are blubbering idiots incapable of deducing test settings and real stuff.

I'm into 3d modeling and texturing and am no stranger to testing environments, and i find it ridiculous and unhelpful to alienate hundreds of people from seeing any progress.

Even if discussing HAB were not allowed outside of HAB forums, you know it would just create a headache for mods. Look at this thread, people who know better than to post NDA stuff have already done so. Giving everyone access to see HAB info and expecting them to not talk about it is beyond the capabilities of the majority of forumites.

[Roundlay]

ReachH, on July 31 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

Roundlay, you've been complaining about favouritism and exclusivism ever since the dev Q&A. It doesn't surprise me that you'd be all over this topic. This isn't a social movement, this is an open beta test.

So what you're saying is... I've continued to discuss something I've shown interest in discussing in the past_ Crazy! You'd almost think this was a discussion forum!

Not sure if this is a straight straw man or cherry picking or ad hominem or a mixture of all three. Either way, I recommend you read through what I've written before you start putting words into my mouth. It's rude and uncomfortable.

[defekt]

I love the smell of drama in the morning.

In my now much depreciated opinion the HAB is a good move; it just happened far too late and appears to have been pretty roughly man-handled into place.  (It should have been implemented more discretely instead of being used as a ‘positive news announcement’ in lieu of anything more substantive; that tack may have backfired somewhat.)

Regarding speculation on HAB recruitment criteria: only ADH know, and it appears to be a broad spectrum of current players.  All I know for certain is that I was a considerably active closed Alpha/Beta tester, both in-game and on the forum, and I haven’t been invited into the HAB.  (Then again not everyone gets their Hawken obituary read out on The Cockpit!)  If I were ADH I wouldn’t attempt to re-activate lapsed assets either.

If the same names I saw contributing constructively (cf. vociferously) in the CA/B environments are now loaded into the HAB then I’m somewhat confident that Hawken’s early promise might just be salvageable, and to that laudable end I wholeheartedly support their involvement.  Who knows, one day their stalwart efforts might be enough to tempt me into dusting off the old Fatty, sticking a bit of slap on the old girl’s radiator, and spinning up her gyros once more.  Oower musses!

[LU0P10]

AsianJoyKiller, on July 31 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

N0stalgia, on July 30 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on July 30 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

Pretty sure they're regretting putting me in HAB.

Nice annoucement AJK.
Adding fuel to the fire_

I honestly believe that the community division created by HAB is a necessary evil. The quality of feedback is several orders of magnitude better than the public forum. The discussions had are much more productive and don't end up being petty arguments with thinly veiled insults being hurled (Hell. Xacius and I have been getting along great, and people have seen how violently we've butted heads publically). It's a much more constructive environment, befitting of proper game testing.

This only makes me happy. Carry on...

[DaPheel]

AsianJoyKiller, on July 30 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

Pretty sure they're regretting putting me in HAB.

That's it A.J.K. keep the dev's in line!

[SmoothBoar]

I don't post much at all, and I've been on a break from playing for about a month or so now. I'm sure a few people have seen me in game, I normally play with SandwichCannon. We both check the forums pretty regularly(we don't post because a lack of updates just means a circle jerk) and watch the Cockpit, but ever since the announcement of the HAB its kinda turned us off a bit.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad at being not chosen and I do think the HAB is a good thing. My issue with it is how it was implemented and the selection process. Lets just break it down.

1. Selection for the HAB.

In the cockpit Hughes said forum post count wouldn't be a factor in choosing this. When the details came up for what are the guidelines, the first thing is actively participating in the forums.

First off what does active even mean. Does it mean posting, cause it sure sounds like posting, or does it mean just logging in and visiting_ Does it mean posting in General, or does it mean I can go slow jerk in some stupid gif thread in off-topic or elswhere_ Having the selection criteria being based off anything forum wise is absurd. I don't post here much because, especially right now, there is nothing to talk about. We've been on the same build for a few months now, all the errors, nerfs, op stuff has been fleshed out. The Devs just sit in their cave of solitude and don't answer anyone.

2. The NDA.

Honestly I could over look the selection process if the NDA wasn't there. This game is in Open Beta and close to release, why have an NDA now__ We all get that a test server is just that, stuff that is being worked on and may or may not ever make it into the game. There is absolutely zero reason to hide things behind a curtain.

If I can't be in the HAB, I want to know what they are testing because I want to stay excited about this game. I've been with the game since Closed Alpha 2 and I want this game to do well. But, it is extremely difficult to stay motivated to even keep playing when there is nothing to talk about. If i'm not motivated to play then I cant keep my friends motivated and then no one is playing.

By removing the NDA it also allows you to get a better response on if the community actually wants what your developing. Its fine using the HAB for tweaking but not for testing reactions to new things which in its current state is what it will be used for.


I propose two different ways to make this better for everyone.

1. Simply remove the NDA and give us a list of who is in the HAB. The more open we are about what is happening with the game the better for all parties. Knowing who is in the HAB is strictly for being able to verify information.

or

2. Redo the sign up process. Make it so the only barring factor is time played. If you are under 40-50 hours then you are not eligible. Final Fantasy 11s test server has what I believe to be one of the best setups for a test server.

1. They have have set phases the test server is open. Several weeks before a patch hits they open it up.

2. They take a set amount of applicants per testing phase, Once the max number of participants are chosen, application for the test server is closed for that phase. If you don't meet the requirements then you cant even apply.

When a new phase is open, everyone resubmits applications.

3. There is no NDA.

This system allows for those that want to test, to test, and those that just want the information the ability to only get that. It also grants a larger pool of people to voice opinions even though you can keep it limited to a small cross section of the player base. This keeps things balanced for everyone in the spectrum of noob to hardcore, because what hardcore people thing to be balanced, isn't always actually balanced out.


These are just my rambling thoughts on the matter. I do hope that something changes regarding the HAB because its current implementation and the current lack of Dev interaction and secrecy regarding every little change is starting to become a large turn off to actually enjoying the game.

[Daronicus]

AsianJoyKiller, on July 31 2013 - 12:29 AM, said:

(Hell. Xacius and I have been getting along great, and people have seen how violently we've butted heads publically).

It's cats and dogs living together!


Edit:

SmoothBoar, on July 31 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

In the cockpit Hughes said forum post count wouldn't be a factor in choosing this. When the details came up for what are the guidelines, the first thing is actively participating in the forums.

If I remember correctly, what Hughes said was that it wouldn't just be people with high post counts or something like that, not that forum activity is totally irrelevant.

Edited by Daronicus, July 31 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[SmoothBoar]

Having anything to do with the forum in general is still ridiculous in my own opinion considering there is only ever enough content in a patch to discuss for maybe a week, then its back to slow jerking.

[Wargasim]

HideyoshiYaoi, on July 31 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

Wargasim, on July 31 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

Houruck, Enlighten me as to the fallacy...(although on re reading I did see a spelling error   )

It's a red herring

And simply saying there are greater issues than the one that somebody is complaining about does absolutely nothing to contest the merit of their complaint.  

You know what's a bigger issue than world hunger_ Our sun going out.  What's bigger than that_  Andromeda galaxy colliding with us.  Your argument is fallacious.

lol cute. I will try not to lose sleep about the sun burning out. I wonder if the people who are going to bed hungry tonight or who's neighborhoods are being shelled are worried about the sun or Andromeda galaxy colliding.....probably not.

As for not contesting the merit of the complaint - I was merely pointing out how pathetic it was.

[Pastorius]

2nd post in thread...

Pastorius, on July 30 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

I'm sorry but I don't think that the HAB has divided the community. I think that the community is doing that by itself with threads such as this one.

*scratches beard*

Edited by Pastorius, July 31 2013 - 09:51 AM.

[HideyoshiYaoi]

Wargasim, on July 31 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

HideyoshiYaoi, on July 31 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

Wargasim, on July 31 2013 - 03:34 AM, said:

Houruck, Enlighten me as to the fallacy...(although on re reading I did see a spelling error   )

It's a red herring

And simply saying there are greater issues than the one that somebody is complaining about does absolutely nothing to contest the merit of their complaint.  

You know what's a bigger issue than world hunger_ Our sun going out.  What's bigger than that_  Andromeda galaxy colliding with us.  Your argument is fallacious.

lol cute. I will try not to lose sleep about the sun burning out. I wonder if the people who are going to bed hungry tonight or who's neighborhoods are being shelled are worried about the sun or Andromeda galaxy colliding.....probably not.

As for not contesting the merit of the complaint - I was merely pointing out how pathetic it was.

But pointing out how trivial something is compared to unrelated global issues does not address the thing you're trivializing.  In other words, red herring.  You have been enlightened

[Seron16]

I tire of this topic. It has evolved into something that is barely related to the HAB anymore, or at least anything constructive concerning the HAB...

[Bazookagofer]

OMG EVERYONE STFU.WHAT IS DONE IS DONE AND NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WHINE ABOUT IT IT WILL NOT HELP YOU. AND IN MY OPINION THEY MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE WITH THE HAB BUT THEY SHOULD OF MADE IT NINJA STYLE OPERATION.

[Seron16]

Pastorius, on July 31 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

2nd post in thread...

Pastorius, on July 30 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

I'm sorry but I don't think that the HAB has divided the community. I think that the community is doing that by itself with threads such as this one.

*scratches beard*

Right out of Battlestar Galactica hmm_