107 replies to this topic

[Planerunner]

'This is basically the use of the predator.. It is highly positional and should be use to swiftly pickoff the weak.'

This is what is driving me crazy about this design. It is called the 'Predator'. According to what you just described, it is actually the Vulture.

ADH modeled this mech after the Predator from the movies, down to its look. A predator is an ambush killer, much like a tiger or sabertooth cat. it leaps from cover at short range to kill animals that are larger and often faster.

What you described isn't a hunter, predator, or a killer of much anything. That playstyle is of a scavenger, and a lone one at that. Vultures and hyenas travel in packs for a reason - they typically can't take down much of anything by themselves, let alone full healthy animals.

I agree with your assessment of the mech. This is how it currently ought to be played, because it certainly can't take on a healthy B or C class one on one. Even A classes at full health will give it a run for its money. That means the design is broken, at least compared to what it is meant to do.

This thing should be hunting, not picking up the table scraps from a battle it has no business being in. I keep hearing the same thing, match after match: 'it has potential, but it sucks right now.' Right now, this is a failed design. ADH needs to go back and revamp this thing. I don't think it needs much to get it there, but right now it has serious, serious issues and should not be taken out for anything other than aggressive scouting and having a carefree stroll.

[Leonhardt]

space_, on November 01 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

A key to playing it well is staying in stealth as much as possible

Edited by Leonhardt, November 01 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[space_]

During battles players repair all the time, the point is these are the main targets for pred.  U can easily turn the ride in your teams favour by taking out these guys.

As for the dude who mentioned common sense.. Yah this post u would think is mostly common sense.. But have u played hawken lol _ Most of the people I see have no clue so many try to snipe with the pred, so this thread exists.

Also in any type if combat game u must evaluate the 1v1 capability of any class in order to use it properly. GG tho thanks for coming out.

[ArccBR]

Planerunner, on November 01 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

'This is basically the use of the predator.. It is highly positional and should be use to swiftly pickoff the weak.'

This is what is driving me crazy about this design. It is called the 'Predator'. According to what you just described, it is actually the Vulture.

ADH modeled this mech after the Predator from the movies, down to its look. A predator is an ambush killer, much like a tiger or sabertooth cat. it leaps from cover at short range to kill animals that are larger and often faster.

What you described isn't a hunter, predator, or a killer of much anything. That playstyle is of a scavenger, and a lone one at that. Vultures and hyenas travel in packs for a reason - they typically can't take down much of anything by themselves, let alone full healthy animals.

I agree with your assessment of the mech. This is how it currently ought to be played, because it certainly can't take on a healthy B or C class one on one. Even A classes at full health will give it a run for its money. That means the design is broken, at least compared to what it is meant to do.

This thing should be hunting, not picking up the table scraps from a battle it has no business being in. I keep hearing the same thing, match after match: 'it has potential, but it sucks right now.' Right now, this is a failed design. ADH needs to go back and revamp this thing. I don't think it needs much to get it there, but right now it has serious, serious issues and should not be taken out for anything other than aggressive scouting and having a carefree stroll.

The biggest flaw in the Pred is the EOC P. The Breacher is one hell of a weapon, but the EOC P... Damn, just kills the concept, even for an ambush specialist. It doesn't shoot fast enough, has no damage if used in single shots, and to actually be usefull, needs to be sticked in a single place, but Hawken's map is huge, which leads to two situations:

1)The enemy will NEVER step or get close to the trap.

2) Will step once, and never more. An "accidental" kill. A lightning does not fall in the same place twice.

[dEd101]

Actually predators usually go for the weakest/slowest/oldest/sickest animal in the pack so the current playstyle fits the name perfectly.

That being said I suck with this mech right now but I've only played a few matches with it. I like it but I've got to learn it's tricksy ways.

[flimsy]

I actually have been having a lot of success in CQC with the predator. The fire rate of the breacher is low, but the damage is enormous, and the minelayer is an excellent CQC weapon when you get the hang of it. The minelayer can very easily close off avenues of movement for your opponent, which you can then exploit. If you can actually hit your shots with the breacher, the mech is ridiculously strong. Oh, and if you haven't figured it out already, the breacher can fire through shields.

Also, the fact that you can see every mech in the area through walls is a very powerful ability. I'm actually enjoying the weird meta that's developed in games where the predators are the only ones who can really see the enemy predator incoming.

[ArccBR]

EOC Predator:

- Single Shot mode: Fires only one mine, with a fast firing-rate. Detected by radar. Glows if sticks in a surface. Sends a small soundwave if sticked on surface. 85 dmg. Cannot be detonated mid air.

- Trap layer mode: Charging the EOC P fires three pucks at the same time, with a slow travel rate. Undetected by radar. Not visible by naked eye (can be seen through infra red). 50 dmg each puck.

Dunno if balance needed, but this is how I see fit the EOC P. Would be much more viable, as a trapper, or as a true Predator.

Edited by ArccBR, November 01 2013 - 11:29 AM.

[dEd101]

Been looking at the math:
The EOC-P is by far the highest dps secondary in the game assuming you can land your shots. 70/0.94= 74.46 (that's more than some primaries)

Breacher has comparable dps to assault rifle and sub machine in both it's firing modes. Flak: (27*6)/2= 81. Rail: 100/1.25= 80.
Numbers from: patch notes.

T32 has respectable dps in both it's fire modes.
Uncharged: 105.6. Charged: 125.7.
https://docs.google....lrQjM5Tmc#gid=0

I'm taking a t32 , a failsafe and a detonater and facehugging chumps. Tactics be damned.

Edited by dEd101, November 01 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[Dackstrus]

space_, on November 01 2013 - 05:35 AM, said:

Providing position reports for your team would also be a big role for this mech if we ever get to play with VoIP again lawl but sine you get about one match in ten with VoIP this role is diminished for now.

"Enemy sighted" Still does pretty well for telling people where enemies are. I love sitting in stealth and pinging out the people who are hiding.

My only complaint about the mech is it's mainly a vulture styled mech. I wish it had a little more upfront fighting ability, but eh.

Edit: Oh! And i'd like to be able to switch the weapons on the mech, like... Primary on secondary side and secondary on primary side.

Edited by Dackstrus, November 01 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[flimsy]

If you don't think it has an upfront fighting style I encourage you to fight Dew in his.

[Verde]

dEd101, on November 01 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

I'm taking a t32 , a failsafe and a detonater and facehugging chumps. Tactics be damned.

That's pretty much what I've been doing, find some stray mech, sneak behind it and unload everything you have in his ass. If the other pilot doesn't have quick enough reflexes you can easily get him to ~50% health before he can react.

I'm far from a good player but even I managed to down quite a few C class mechs from full health.

Don't like the Breacher though, it's too slow and my aim is bad so I prefer the T32-Bolt which let's me spray away.

[space_]

This is exactly what I'm getting at last few posts have maths to back it up.. Pred is to be used as close as possible to enemies.. I see the majority of pred pilots usin it ranged right now.

Using the stealth and being patient just allows u to really cripple enemy teams by whiping out enemies from behind enemy lines where they think they are safe.

[BlackCephie]

Wasabi_Wei, on November 01 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

So the key to playing the Predator is to lurk around taking ones sweet time engaging while your team loses battle momentum_ Seems about right.

This is the main problem I've been having with the Pred. I only go into hunt mode when the enemy is on the retreat. Flanking is always good, but when your team needs you, its much better to fight with them and pepper the enemy side of the battle with as many mines as possible. You will end up doing a LOT of area damage. I tend not to wait after peppering the enemy to go on the hunt. Once they realize that they are taking massive damage from mines, they will fall back. Start your flank BEFORE this point, that way you are in position to finish them off by the time they fall back. If you wait, the wounded ones will be fully healed by the time you run over to flank them.

[flimsy]

BlackCephie, on November 01 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Wasabi_Wei, on November 01 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

So the key to playing the Predator is to lurk around taking ones sweet time engaging while your team loses battle momentum_ Seems about right.

This is the main problem I've been having with the Pred. I only go into hunt mode when the enemy is on the retreat. Flanking is always good, but when your team needs you, its much better to fight with them and pepper the enemy side of the battle with as many mines as possible. You will end up doing a LOT of area damage. I tend not to wait after peppering the enemy to go on the hunt. Once they realize that they are taking massive damage from mines, they will fall back. Start your flank BEFORE this point, that way you are in position to finish them off by the time they fall back. If you wait, the wounded ones will be fully healed by the time you run over to flank them.

Yeah, I think this is good advice. The predator is uniquely suited to picking off injured, repairing mechs because not only can you sneak up on them, you can see them repairing through the walls.

[PhysicsCrime]

Planerunner, on November 01 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

This is what is driving me crazy about this design. It is called the 'Predator'. According to what you just described, it is actually the Vulture.

It would make a lot more sense if the Predator and Infiltrator had their names swapped.

And the main thing the Infiltrator is worse at than the predator is infiltrating.

Edited by PhysicsCrime, November 01 2013 - 01:53 PM.

[havoc5]

The predator is also great for leading your team because you can see enemies way before they see you (besides other predators). If you're using voice chat you can relay all this information to your team.

None of the Predator's weapons need buffs, l2p. My first TDM on Pred went 8-2-15 in a close game. I saw quite a few Pred players that were absolutely atrocious, just running straight into enemies like they were on a Vanguard or something. I have a feeling some of those are here now complaining.

Edited by havoc5, November 01 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[ropefish]

fact about the pred: its a hard mech to master

even its creator (played a MA match with him yesterday ) said it, its a versatile mech, their is no ONE way to play it, find a way that suits you

[Kureno]

what is this stealth you are talking about_

[havoc5]

Planerunner, on November 01 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

snip

Predatory animals will usually target weak/sickly prey. A scavenger wouldnt be involved in the killing at all, so what you're saying isnt even accurate.

Anyway it's just a name. The name is an ode to the Predator's camouflage ability, it doesn't necessarily need to have any meaning on gameplay.

Edited by havoc5, November 01 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[Krellus]

i tried Pred for 2 hours on 250 ping last night. i agree it works as a vulture mech, at least. i find the tbolt better than the breacher, the breacher doesnt seem to give any better range than the tbolt, so why use it_ i found it very fun to play, and viable in tdm. i didnt score high but i definitely contributed positively overall, scores like 3/2/9. i feel like there is much to learn with this mech and love that it plays so differently to most other mechs. i give it a thumbs up and hope for more new gameplay style mechs like this in future.now if the devs can just fix the servers and that pause when a friend joins/leaves!!