145 replies to this topic

[BlackCephie]

OR your whole team could use your heads and roll all CQC and make it a point to close the distance in every fight. of course that would require actual TEAM COORDINATION and COMMUNICATION, but we all know thats WAY too difficult to manage so...

[TheVulong]

Quote

OR your whole team could use your heads and roll all CQC and make it a point to close the distance in every fight.

Rocketeers tend to fly nowadays so.. good luck with that.

[DerMax]

craftydus, on November 14 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

DerMax, on November 14 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

the problem at hand is the level design, I don't want to be forced to use other mechs out of my will, and ping is about 200−300 ms

I am trying to understand your point of view.
You think maps should be designed around what weapon/mech you prefer and your connectivity quality_!

Your initial grievance I can appreciate.
I've suffered enough hellfire barrages on last eco to find the motivation to eat right and excercise more.
But that other bit about changing map design for the reason's you listed kinda derailed my sympathies.

Yep, I don't want to be forced into specific playstyles because the enemy chose another specific playstyle. I want diversity which (as far as I can tell) we're not provided with in the current setting.

I used the ping part to emphasize that for many players whose connection is not superb there is not much choice as to how to counter skillfirers. If your ping is 150+, reapers and sharpies probably won't work, which means you're forced to counter hellfires with hellfires (cloaked preds can be locked on). Holograms can do just fine, but I don't think there is a way to change your item once the game has started (and even if there were one — how would you talk a pub team into spamming those_)

And please don't bring the 'Oh you just need teamwork yada yada' kind of stuff. I've played enough 4-bruiser games to know how such games end up.

[HatesYourFace]

Whatever they did to Hellfires, I've noticed they are definitely a little extreme post invasion. Especially if the user is lagging somewhat it makes them almost impossible to dodge, and they often do complete 180's in the air to chase you and even pass through walls.

I don't know who was calling for a Hellfire buff, but I'm pretty sure no one was.

The few people who were complaining about "unreliable locks" doesn't really justify the changes imo.

[Zhoyzu]

yea... they were stupid easy to use before. i can almost get hellfires to fly in circles these days as opposed to as before i could get them to do 90+ degree turns.

[BlackCephie]

TheVulong, on November 14 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Quote

OR your whole team could use your heads and roll all CQC and make it a point to close the distance in every fight.

Rocketeers tend to fly nowadays so.. good luck with that.

...and_ The fact that they "tend" to fly is inconsequencial. If your whole team just blitz's in, they can fly all they want. Thats not going to stop you from MIRV'ng them.

[HideyoshiYaoi]

For the last freaking time, the hellfires do not "curve 180 degrees"

They don't start to track a target until about a quarter second after firing them.  That means until then, the missiles travel in a straight line, then begin to track a target.  This isn't magic, it's easily explainable technology.  Reaction wheels or micro thrusters are just two ways the little missiles can change direction before the main rocket begins firing, so stfu about it.  

Hellfires aren't broken.  I would rather fight a team of rocketeers over a team of scouts ANY DAY OF THE WEEK

Just stop running into the middle of a field like a fuzzy bunny and l2p

[burns1124]

Hellfires are probably too easy/good now, and should get their damage toned down to TOW/GL levels with a minor increase in RoF.  

The seeking mechanic was something that always sucked balls though, and feels really good right now.  Especially with all the random client freezes and lag associated with the Friends list notifications and server lag, you're going to see them a lot, I know I use them often on Eco, Bazaar, and even Origin, because Air Dynamics+Compressor+ a good working knowledge of how to tweak, makes for some pretty fun game play when you aren't just sitting somewhere like a Rocket Turret.

HideyoshiYaoi, on November 14 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

For the last freaking time, the hellfires do not "curve 180 degrees"

They don't start to track a target until about a quarter second after firing them.  That means until then, the missiles travel in a straight line, then begin to track a target.  This isn't magic, it's easily explainable technology.  Reaction wheels or micro thrusters are just two ways the little missiles can change direction before the main rocket begins firing, so stfu about it.  

Hellfires aren't broken.  I would rather fight a team of rocketeers over a team of scouts ANY DAY OF THE WEEK

Just stop running into the middle of a field like a fuzzy bunny and l2p

Yaoi, the simple matter is with 2-3 angles, multiple average skill HF users can lock down/burst down just about anyone, and if that person is fighting someone other than the HF user_  Forget about it, you just get free hits.  

I personally have never seen HF 180 on people, but they do track much more aggressively, and a seasoned HF user has no problem hitting at least 80-90% of his/her volleys.  That's a little too much with their higher damage than the other, harder to use secondaries.  


Like was stated earlier in the thread, any team that stacks 1 class, be it Rteer, Scout, Raider, or Tech is going to be annoying for an unorganized team to handle.  

It'd be nice if there was a class lockout once one person picked a class per team, but I'm not sure how well that would be received.

Edited by burns1124, November 14 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[TheVulong]

BlackCephie, on November 14 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

TheVulong, on November 14 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Quote

OR your whole team could use your heads and roll all CQC and make it a point to close the distance in every fight.

Rocketeers tend to fly nowadays so.. good luck with that.

...and_ The fact that they "tend" to fly is inconsequencial. If your whole team just blitz's in, they can fly all they want. Thats not going to stop you from MIRV'ng them.

If they start to fly from the higher position than you (and Last Eco is filled with those), it's a pain in the ass to get them. At least with Vulcan.

[caduceus26]

space_, on November 14 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Hellfires are useless up close and there is always ways to get up close.  It does suck to get hit with 3 hellfires volleys all at once, but it is easily countered.

"Up close..." is the challenge when the other team has the high ground. I find the Last Eco map the most problematic to play in Siege.  Notwithstanding the fact that the map itself is "cramped" for this game mode-- Rocketeers and Bruisers can make access to the EU stations difficult and an approach to the AA darn near impossible if they get there first.  

The only real counter that I've seen work effectively in Siege on Last Eco is a kamikaze rush by the entire team and hope that your aim is better than theirs. Unless it is your team that gets to the AA first, that is.

[Nvain]

HideyoshiYaoi, on November 14 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

For the last freaking time, the hellfires do not "curve 180 degrees"

They don't start to track a target until about a quarter second after firing them.  That means until then, the missiles travel in a straight line, then begin to track a target.  This isn't magic, it's easily explainable technology.  Reaction wheels or micro thrusters are just two ways the little missiles can change direction before the main rocket begins firing, so stfu about it.  

Hellfires aren't broken.  I would rather fight a team of rocketeers over a team of scouts ANY DAY OF THE WEEK

Just stop running into the middle of a field like a fuzzy bunny and l2p

Dat attitude...

Hellfires might not do 180º turns but they do fly around very sharp corners and they do occasionally fly through walls. The number of people reporting issues with them is a clear indicative of the veracity of this. I highly doubt people would bother coming to the forums to complain about something just for the fun of it.

If you're playing Last Eco and low on health it feels like 50% of the time, some random Hellfires will come out of nowhere and take you out, probably after they turned a corner.

[ChubaMecha]

so are hellfires too op or are players getting their ass whooped on last eco_

[Nvain]

ChubaMecha, on November 14 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

so are hellfires too op or are players getting their ass whooped on last eco_

One doesn't contradict the other
It feels like the team stacking the most Hellfire using classes wins, and that results in both teams stacking HFs, at least on pubs. Like someone pointed out before, I don't like that it basically forces you to play a certain mech just to have a fair chance - on the other hand it does force you to learn to play in different ways, as Rajhin pointed out.

As far as I know, both damage and tracking capabilities of HFs got improved with the last patch, I think that they should be nerfed a little damage-wise and the bugs like flying through walls, etc, should be fixed for it to be a fair weapon.

Edited by Nvain, November 14 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[burns1124]

Nvain, on November 14 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

HideyoshiYaoi, on November 14 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

For the last freaking time, the hellfires do not "curve 180 degrees"

They don't start to track a target until about a quarter second after firing them.  That means until then, the missiles travel in a straight line, then begin to track a target.  This isn't magic, it's easily explainable technology.  Reaction wheels or micro thrusters are just two ways the little missiles can change direction before the main rocket begins firing, so stfu about it.  

Hellfires aren't broken.  I would rather fight a team of rocketeers over a team of scouts ANY DAY OF THE WEEK

Just stop running into the middle of a field like a fuzzy bunny and l2p

Dat attitude...

Hellfires might not do 180º turns but they do fly around very sharp corners and they do occasionally fly through walls. The number of people reporting issues with them is a clear indicative of the veracity of this. I highly doubt people would bother coming to the forums to complain about something just for the fun of it.

If you're playing Last Eco and low on health it feels like 50% of the time, some random Hellfires will come out of nowhere and take you out, probably after they turned a corner.

That's the entire point of Hellfires, to make shots that cannot be made by the other more direct fire secondaries.  Ya it's frustrating trying to out maneuver them on maps like Eco, and Bazaar, but they are far, far from OP, and nothing said on these forums will ever change that, this is a vocal minority at best.

The 20-30 people that post regularly on the forums are not the majority of players, and :

Quote

I highly doubt people would bother coming to the forums to complain about something just for the fun of it.

If you believe this, you are being extremely naive.

[Sylhiri]

BlackCephie, on November 14 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

...and_ The fact that they "tend" to fly is inconsequencial. If your whole team just blitz's in, they can fly all they want. Thats not going to stop you from MIRV'ng them.

I found that to be a little weird. Since when did hellfire mechs adopt the Technician counter_

I never really though the seeking weapons to be good for Hawken, they sucked really bad or they became god tier. Finding a good medium is going to take a long time, more so whenever they "throw a wrench in the meta".

burns1124, on November 14 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

I personally have never seen HF 180 on people...

Didn't mexichan do it in that one video_ XD

Edited by Sylhiri, November 14 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[HatesYourFace]

HideyoshiYaoi, on November 14 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

For the last freaking time, the hellfires do not "curve 180 degrees"

I was mostly referring to Hellfire users who are lagging, which severely exaggerates the problem, and yes I've been circling a HF user in a close range fight, his back to me, he shoots his Hellfires and they went 180 degrees over his head and hit me, like I said he was lagging (200-250ish ping) This is potentially exploitable as forcing induced lag isn't exactly hard to do. In this scenario there was literally nothing I could do to stop his Hellfires from tracking and hitting me almost magically, despite being behind him at several points. This is my main complaint with the changed Helfires.

[ArccBR]

HatesYourFace, on November 14 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Whatever they did to Hellfires, I've noticed they are definitely a little extreme post invasion. Especially if the user is lagging somewhat it makes them almost impossible to dodge, and they often do complete 180's in the air to chase you and even pass through walls.

I don't know who was calling for a Hellfire buff, but I'm pretty sure no one was.

The few people who were complaining about "unreliable locks" doesn't really justify the changes imo.

LONEDEADWOLF asked for it. I'm yet to see such a fanboy of rocketeers and OPfire missiles.

[HatesYourFace]

ArccBR, on November 14 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

LONEDEADWOLF asked for it. I'm yet to see such a fanboy of rocketeers and OPfire missiles.

Lol.

Welp.

Better round up the mob, we got ourselves a hanging.

[space_]

On eco especially there is many good cqc mechs that can appraoch the AA and cripple HFM mechs up close..

Raider is able to blitz in, inf able to stealth in, pred able to stealth in, gren able to spam area from a distance and crush up close, the configuration of the AA itself makes it easy to avoid HFM locks with a single dodge from almost any location within the AA box..

It really doesnt help to try and snipe or HFM a team that s already dug in at AA as the team that is dug in gets the huge advantage of using the AA's design to avoid your fire and repair/use techs to keep thier health up.

Approaching using no boost to stay off radar, getting in position to quickly close the gap onto the AA and crushing those HFM mechs in cqc is how to win.

[Nvain]

burns1124, on November 14 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

That's the entire point of Hellfires, to make shots that cannot be made by the other more direct fire secondaries.  Ya it's frustrating trying to out maneuver them on maps like Eco, and Bazaar, but they are far, far from OP, and nothing said on these forums will ever change that, this is a vocal minority at best.

The 20-30 people that post regularly on the forums are not the majority of players

I'm fine with HFs making the shots that cannot be made by direct fire secondaries, and OP is a very subjective word hence I didn't use it
I'm glad that their tracking capabilities got improved, as it seemed to cause trouble for the players who used them regularly, however I do believe that their damage increase was uncalled for and that the bugs that plague them (sharp corner turning & flying through walls) need to be fixed.

As with every other online game, the forum community is always the minority... About the naive part, perhaps you're confusing what I said earlier with "I doubt that people would come to the forums and write silly things", which they actually do, sometimes. I think that the number of people who think "oh I'll just check out the forum and agree/disagree with this to see what happens", without any sort of basic reasoning behind, is low.