63 replies to this topic

[ropefish]

discuss
i think they need more of a mechanic change instead of a damage nerf

[PhysicsCrime]

Yes.  They need to be made harder to use.  Autolockon is stupid.

Edited by PhysicsCrime, December 12 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[ropefish]

the only auto lock is when your in turret mode of the rocketeer, if you not in turret mode or are using the busier you have to aim to lock on o-o

[Unknown_Soldiers]

ropefish, on December 12 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

the only auto lock is when your in turret mode of the rocketeer, if you not in turret mode or are using the busier you have to aim to lock on o-o

Plus the actual Lock-on ability does not track correctly they still disappear off into the sun even after a definite lock-on is established they don't like the description and diagrams we have seen in the past actually track their locked target and they have to be purely direct line of sight a lot to be significantly able to do the correct amount of damage regardless of the nerf which is good as it was like Hell-fire Alley in Afghanistan in some Maps which can be ridiculous.

[Aims]

As WarPig so aptly put it:

WarPig, on December 06 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

... I know it's easy to be like "OH I deal with them fine ur just a nublet" but fo realz the issue is beyond skill based and comes down to straight up enjoyment and honestly I hear less and less enjoyment from people which is scary.. the balance issues in this game are atrocious and the lock on targeting for a game trying to provide depth/skill is laughable.

IS ANYONE able to provide GOOD suggestions as to what we could all maybe poll on as something we would like to see with the topic at hand.

Edited by Aims, December 12 2013 - 07:44 PM.

[HugeGuts]

Multiple lock on mechanic. Three lock ons you can stack on one target or spread over multiple targets. Damage potential and cool down are proportional to the number of lock ons before firing. Overall, it now takes much longer for the Hellfire to do the damage it does now.

Problem solved.

Edited by HugeGuts, December 12 2013 - 09:50 PM.

[Highchu]

Even after the small damage nerf its still a little to powerful for its ease of use. If anything it shouldn't be doing any more damage than a direct TOW/GL. They should just revert the targeting system back to the way it was before which was fine to begin with. That or they could:

• Restrict the distance of lock-ons (Minimum/Maximum)
  
• Increase lock-on time based on distance of target
  
• Reduce damage based on distance of target

[Bazookagofer]

Make it more similar to seeker maybe that they track the target only if the cursor was on enemy mech_ That way you have to aim.
Or two modes. One fires 1 single powerful lock on missle and the other mode shoots like 3 missles that do a nice bit of aoe damage. Used for suppresion something like that. Or make it unique that you only have the seeker, eoc or heat when not in turret mode but when in turret mode you deploy hell fires which would be something like this:



Turret mode increases your hp by 1000-1500.YOU CANNOT MOVE. Damage reduced by 25% and right mouse button unleashes volleys of missles that do massive aoe damage. But this would be rocketeer only... It would be though a siege/ma mech only though. Oh and a limit of one per team probably lol. I can imagine these things perched on the aa raining hell on earth.

Edited by Bazookagofer, December 12 2013 - 10:33 PM.

[PhysicsCrime]

My suggestion:

+ Increase RoF
+ Slightly increase missile speed
+ Make missiles follow your cursor after being launched
- Remove lock on
- Reduce damage slightly if neccissary


Personally I don't see any way that hellfires can be properly balanced without removing the lock on mechanic.  It is simply too unreliable and makes the weapon far too easy to use.

Edited by PhysicsCrime, December 12 2013 - 11:11 PM.

[Aims]

If they insist on keeping the current mechanic, I would like to see the missiles do reduced damage whilst locked on and full damage when dumbfired, giving them a bit more depth at least.

Edited by Aims, December 13 2013 - 12:16 AM.

[MexichanMan]

Hellfires have been a strange ride for the past couple of months. Since the Ascension patch, hellfres have gotten harder to avoid and easier to use. This is because of the addition of air dynamics tuning and the change to how hellfires track their targets. Personally, I have been playing hellfires less often that I used to, because of their low skill cap.

Without changing how the lock-on mechanic works fundamentally I would do a few things:

- Increase the time for lock-on so that using the auto tracking will significantly reduce lock-on dps and promote dumb-firing
-Make hellfires easier to avoid out in the open by decreasing their speed and/or acceleration.
-Bring back its old damgae in order to compensate for the above changes.

By making the lock-on time significantly longer, you make the lock-on less versatile and make the user have to decide whether or not to lock on or dumbfire. Then allowing players to avoid the missiles much more reliably, it makes it so that player skill can overcome the ease-of-use. However, give the hellfires their damage back so they don't feel completely useless.

Edited by MexichanMan, December 14 2013 - 12:39 AM.

[Hyginos]

Can anyone elaborate for me on why hellfires considered broken_ Perhaps its a function of my low rating, but I've never had any problems on either end of them. They seem interesting mechanically both in terms of play and counterplay.

If they must be changed, it seems lowering their turn speed could potentially lower the skill floor of avoiding them and thus make counterplay much easier without fundamentally changing the mechanic.

Edited by Hyginos, December 14 2013 - 10:04 AM.

[Amisto]

MexichanMan, on December 14 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Hellfires have been a strange ride for the past couple of months. Since the Ascension patch, hellfres have gotten harder to avoid and easier to use. This is because of the addition of air dynamics tuning and the change to how hellfires track their targets. Personally, I have been playing hellfires less often that I used to, because of their low skill cap.

Without changing how the lock-on mechanic works fundamentally I would do a few things:

- Increase the time for lock-on so that using the auto tracking will significantly reduce lock-on dps and promote dumb-firing
-Make hellfires easier to avoid out in the open by decreasing their speed and/or acceleration.
-Bring back its old damgae in order to compensate for the above changes.

By making the lock-on time significantly longer, you make the lock-on less versatile and make the user have to decide whether or not to lock on or dumbfire. Then allowing players to avoid the missiles much more reliably, it makes it so that player skill can overcome the ease-of-use. However, give the hellfires their damage back so they don't feel completely useless.

suggested lock on delay a while ago.  It is the best answer. or give us chaff , flares.

[EliteShooter]

ropefish, on December 12 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

the only auto lock is when your in turret mode of the rocketeer, if you not in turret mode or are using the busier you have to aim to lock on o-o

+1111111111111111111111111111

[PhysicsCrime]

Hyginos, on December 14 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Can anyone elaborate for me on why hellfires considered broken_ Perhaps its a function of my low rating, but I've never had any problems on either end of them. They seem interesting mechanically both in terms of play and counterplay.

If they must be changed, it seems lowering their turn speed could potentially lower the skill floor of avoiding them and thus make counterplay much easier without fundamentally changing the mechanic.

They are just too easy to use and boring.  Since the recent adjustment they don't seem OP anymore at least.

[fingerknitter]

MexichanMan, on December 14 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Hellfires have been a strange ride for the past couple of months. Since the Ascension patch, hellfres have gotten harder to avoid and easier to use. This is because of the addition of air dynamics tuning and the change to how hellfires track their targets. Personally, I have been playing hellfires less often that I used to, because of their low skill cap.

Without changing how the lock-on mechanic works fundamentally I would do a few things:

- Increase the time for lock-on so that using the auto tracking will significantly reduce lock-on dps and promote dumb-firing
-Make hellfires easier to avoid out in the open by decreasing their speed and/or acceleration.
-Bring back its old damgae in order to compensate for the above changes.

By making the lock-on time significantly longer, you make the lock-on less versatile and make the user have to decide whether or not to lock on or dumbfire. Then allowing players to avoid the missiles much more reliably, it makes it so that player skill can overcome the ease-of-use. However, give the hellfires their damage back so they don't feel completely useless.

For anyone that doesn't know this guy, his Hellfires with the old pathing had sexier curves than Scarlett Johansson xD

I would personally like to simply add 2 more tiers to the lock mechanic. Fastest lock would be faster than the current one, but the missile spread would be much more than what it is now. Increasing the amount of time locked would increase missile density.

This does a couple of things:

- Gives the user more options than the current dichotomous hellfires: dumbfire or lock on...yipee...
- Removes "Spamming" the lock-on as an acceptable means of doing huge burst damage, and instead would "suppress" and "pepper" like a suppressive weapon should.
- Through an interesting mechanic, manipulates the damage at each level. The weak lock, having high missile spread, would be harder to completely avoid because of their splash, but would result in "missing" missiles and missiles that get snagged on terrain which, accompanied by the loss of overlapping splash radii, would reduce the damage directed at a single mech. Waiting out the level 2 lock on until level 3 would result in the TIGHTEST missiles, more direct target damage, and overlapping splash.

Edited by fingerknitter, December 14 2013 - 08:05 PM.

[Bazookagofer]

Amisto, on December 14 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

MexichanMan, on December 14 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Hellfires have been a strange ride for the past couple of months. Since the Ascension patch, hellfres have gotten harder to avoid and easier to use. This is because of the addition of air dynamics tuning and the change to how hellfires track their targets. Personally, I have been playing hellfires less often that I used to, because of their low skill cap.

Without changing how the lock-on mechanic works fundamentally I would do a few things:

- Increase the time for lock-on so that using the auto tracking will significantly reduce lock-on dps and promote dumb-firing
-Make hellfires easier to avoid out in the open by decreasing their speed and/or acceleration.
-Bring back its old damgae in order to compensate for the above changes.

By making the lock-on time significantly longer, you make the lock-on less versatile and make the user have to decide whether or not to lock on or dumbfire. Then allowing players to avoid the missiles much more reliably, it makes it so that player skill can overcome the ease-of-use. However, give the hellfires their damage back so they don't feel completely useless.

suggested lock on delay a while ago.  It is the best answer. or give us chaff , flares.

One item to counter one weapon is a terrible idea... They should just revamp the hellfires so you need skill to use. Unfortunately they will not do this because they still didn't get rid of techs sticky fuzzybunny beam.

[Requiem132]

The new name for hellfires is skillfires guys we must get it right! I am only mad that infiltrators cloaked can now be locked on makes me feel even more useless in it.

[Bazookagofer]

Requiem132, on December 15 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

The new name for hellfires is skillfires guys we must get it right! I am only mad that infiltrators cloaked can now be locked on makes me feel even more useless in it.

Not sure if serious or trolling... because there is no way you should feel useless in a infiltrator even if you didn't have cloak... EOC+ GL+670 makes you a fast front line fighter who could take a punch or two.

[Beefsweat]

Requiem132, on December 15 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

The new name for hellfires is skillfires guys we must get it right! I am only mad that infiltrators cloaked can now be locked on makes me feel even more useless in it.

This has always been present and highlighting a cloaked mech will still give you an IFF outline, there have always been ways to spot cloaked enemies.