63 replies to this topic

[IareDave]

Whoever thinks hellfires are OP now clearly are not used to high level play. I rarely see hellfires top scoreboards in higher tier games. Dodging hellfires takes minimal skill, slow ROF. As aptest already said, TOW/launcher is a better option

[Cruzxavier]

Even when Hellfires were not nerfed the bruiser was a normal mech and the Rocketeer filled the servers...why_ The SEEKER!!!! That is a OP weapon when in combination with HF....

[Muffintrumpet]

the reason the Rocketeer is popular is because the thing is a 1000hp blimp that’s able to fly backwards as fast as some mechs can boost forwards, whilst letting loose everything it’s got with none of the accuracy penalties that are ordinarily attributed to being airborne, or even attributed to needing to aiming at all
the devs previously stated that things like backdash went against the core battle mechanics of the game, retreat should always come at a cost; however, this Air Dynamics Rocketeer thing does exactly that, and better because you’re in the air!

there's not much joined up thinking going on behind the scenes in this game
/Hawken logic

[Dictatorfish]

Summary of "why Hellfires are bad" arguments:

• Effectiveness at skill floor is too effective, thus the abundance of Rocketeers and Bruisers at low- and mid-level games where players aren't experienced or skilled enough to make better use of other secondary weapons.
  
• Skill ceiling is too low, thus the scarcity of Rocketeers and Bruisers at high-level games where other secondary weapons surpass the Hellfire.

How to address both issues:

• Increase the lock-on time to reduce effectiveness at skill floor.
  
• Tighten/reduce the dumbfire projectile spread to increase skill ceiling.

[dorobo]

agreed no need to nerf even more..

[fingerknitter]

Cruzxavier, on December 24 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

Even when Hellfires were not nerfed the bruiser was a normal mech and the Rocketeer filled the servers...why_ The SEEKER!!!! That is a OP weapon when in combination with HF....

lol the ninja seeker buff...where did that come from haha

[dEd101]

--

Edited by dEd101, December 24 2013 - 01:13 PM.

[Bazookagofer]

dorobo, on December 24 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

agreed no need to nerf even more..

No nerfs ... a complete FCKING OVERHAUL.

[CounterlogicMan]

Instead of locking on and tracking, maybe they should act more like rocket pods on attack helicopters/CAS jets_
You have a loaded pod of rockets, for examples sake lets say 6. The default fire mode is single and you right click once and one rocket fires in a straight(ish) line where you are aiming much like a TOW. If you use the weapon utility you switch the fire mode to all and when you right click all the rockets fire at once. Once all the rockets in the pod are fired there is a decent reload time (less than corsair but more than GL_).

Each mode has its own advantages and disadvantages.

Single Fire:
Advantages
-rapid(ish) rate of fire for 6 shots (1s_)
-can adjust for a moving target
-suppression
-not putting all your eggs in one basket (all your rockets in one shot should be a gamble/calculated risk, ie you miss you are vulnerable during reload)
Disadvantages
-doing damage of one rocket rather than 6
-if you fire say 3 rockets in single fire then switch to all, you only have 3 rockets to fire at once unless you take the time to reload
___

All mode
Advantages
-higher alpha
-just having the ability to fire them all at once can be a deterrent to other mechs
-more overall splash
Disadvantages
-you fire all your rockets at once then have to reload making you vulnerable
-if you missed you may be screwed (putting all your rockets err eggs in/on(to_) one basket/mech__)

So no more lock on and homing mechanic. Arguably more skill based. Definitely requires more thought to use and has obvious drawbacks/advantages.

[Krellus]

This game would be better with backdash, it would avoid the facehugging awfulness. Also there should be no spread penalty when flying, its crud that flying is worse than being on the ground. The seeker is an ok weapon when flying, otherwise the hitscan weapons are better - you cant dodge them and you dont hurt yourself if you get facehugged. Long range seeker bombing is pointless, much to easy to avoid, much like long range hellfires.

[fingerknitter]

Krellus, on December 25 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

This game would be better with backdash, it would avoid the facehugging awfulness. Also there should be no spread penalty when flying, its crud that flying is worse than being on the ground. The seeker is an ok weapon when flying, otherwise the hitscan weapons are better - you cant dodge them and you dont hurt yourself if you get facehugged. Long range seeker bombing is pointless, much to easy to avoid, much like long range hellfires.

>_>

And how did you come to that conclusion_

[Grizzled]

CounterlogicMan, on December 24 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Instead of locking on and tracking, maybe they should act more like rocket pods on attack helicopters/CAS jets_
You have a loaded pod of rockets, for examples sake lets say 6. The default fire mode is single and you right click once and one rocket fires in a straight(ish) line where you are aiming much like a TOW. If you use the weapon utility you switch the fire mode to all and when you right click all the rockets fire at once. Once all the rockets in the pod are fired there is a decent reload time (less than corsair but more than GL_).

Each mode has its own advantages and disadvantages.

Single Fire:
Advantages
-rapid(ish) rate of fire for 6 shots (1s_)
-can adjust for a moving target
-suppression
-not putting all your eggs in one basket (all your rockets in one shot should be a gamble/calculated risk, ie you miss you are vulnerable during reload)
Disadvantages
-doing damage of one rocket rather than 6
-if you fire say 3 rockets in single fire then switch to all, you only have 3 rockets to fire at once unless you take the time to reload
___

All mode
Advantages
-higher alpha
-just having the ability to fire them all at once can be a deterrent to other mechs
-more overall splash
Disadvantages
-you fire all your rockets at once then have to reload making you vulnerable
-if you missed you may be screwed (putting all your rockets err eggs in/on(to_) one basket/mech__)

So no more lock on and homing mechanic. Arguably more skill based. Definitely requires more thought to use and has obvious drawbacks/advantages.

So, my best tactic to use would be area denial or equip failskill and wait for a point blank mega alpha on those A class harassers. Burst is king, and you want to make a rocket god.

[Teljaxx]

I have already made so many suggestions on how to improve Hellfires...

Well, here is another one:
Increase their damage back to pre-Wreckage levels. Revert their tracking to pre-Invasion style. Increase flight speed when dumbfired, and decrease it when locked. Slightly reduce turning speed to compensate for lower flight speed.

This would allow dumbfired shots to have a different advantage over locked shots, and promote the use of both in different situations.

[ropefish]

ironicly i posted this topic as a kinda break in the new forum section joke, but its actually been constructive-ish

[Unknown_Kadath]

Dictatorfish, on December 24 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Summary of "why Hellfires are bad" arguments:

• Effectiveness at skill floor is too effective, thus the abundance of Rocketeers and Bruisers at low- and mid-level games where players aren't experienced or skilled enough to make better use of other secondary weapons.
  
  
• Skill ceiling is too low, thus the scarcity of Rocketeers and Bruisers at high-level games where other secondary weapons surpass the Hellfire.

How to address both issues:

• Increase the lock-on time to reduce effectiveness at skill floor.
  
  
• Tighten/reduce the dumbfire projectile spread to increase skill ceiling.

This, I can get behind.
People keep blowing up the chat whenever I use a Bruiser or Rocketeer, calling me a noob or what-have-you. I only use them because I like to play in teams, and it's a form of support, NOT an experience-based issue. When used in other settings, the point would make sense, but teams require quite a few positions to be fulfilled, especially one that can track someone and hit them from a different angle. People need to understand that it isn't used to make the top of the score board at all, simply to help all the Class-A's to make their kills. Many a Reaper has benefited from a quick salvo into their target, softening them up.

[space_]

Hellfires might be annoying but any HFM mech is still at a disadvantage in 1v1 situations against pretty much everything so although the missiles are annoying its not like the bruiser is ever going to be a 1v1 dominator

[ropefish]

space_, on January 15 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

Hellfires might be annoying but any HFM mech is still at a disadvantage in 1v1 situations against pretty much everything so although the missiles are annoying its not like the bruiser is ever going to be a 1v1 dominator

the MLAR (i actually forgot the name ) is coming soon! MULTI LOCK ROCKETS FOR EVERYONE

[Superkamikazee]

I like hellfires, I don't think they're overpowered at all. If you're not paying attention and you let me get a solid lock, and then you don't run, you deserve what's coming. You basically have all the time you need to get out of dodge. A classes complaining about hellfires_ Seriosuly_ You guys can figure skate around these things all game long, give me a break.

But ff I sneak up on you while you're already engaged in combat then yeah you're SOL. I agree that unlocked hellfire shots need to be tightened up, less spread, and a smidge more damage. A mech with hellfires is at a massive dissadvantage on maps like uptown with lots of corridor battle requiring a quick pop out and fire game. Can't get a lock, so I just blind fire the hellfires to result in basically no damage which leaves me a giant space heater vulcan and a slow reload time on my hellfires while I'm getting jumped in a dark back alley.

[Glacius]

Dictatorfish, on December 24 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Summary of "why Hellfires are bad" arguments:

• Effectiveness at skill floor is too effective, thus the abundance of Rocketeers and Bruisers at low- and mid-level games where players aren't experienced or skilled enough to make better use of other secondary weapons.
  
  
• Skill ceiling is too low, thus the scarcity of Rocketeers and Bruisers at high-level games where other secondary weapons surpass the Hellfire.

How to address both issues:

• Increase the lock-on time to reduce effectiveness at skill floor.
  
  
• Tighten/reduce the dumbfire projectile spread to increase skill ceiling.

[J_Bird487]

They should reduce the turn time of the hellfire to make it easier to dodge