21 replies to this topic

[DFTR]

I loathe being EMP'd.  I'd rather be hit by a Detonator or ISM.

I feel it's easier to also dodge/escape both of the later than it is the former.
A shield will counter both Detonator or HE Charge.
EMP however will disrupt a shield and possibly the mech within as well.    
There is no good counter to EMP except countermeasures which themselves were a wretched conception.

I've seen alternative suggestions for EMPs (introducing feathering or eliminating the MK3).  

However for a shooting game, not being able to shoot is extremely the opposite of fun.  
I think the EMP should be reworked_  I compare it to the ISM which is fun; there's a delay when you have a chance to get out of range.  Even when blinded, you don't feel helpless and can sort of navigate or move away.

I propose the EMP disables radar and HUD but the victim can still manually fire weapons_  I know this is not realistic (actually the whole mech shouldn't be moving) but in terms of fun gameplay, I think it would be better.  Add 1 or 2 more seconds so it's not underwhelming.  Perhaps keep the shutdown effect if you catch someone in a shield w/ it due to crossing streams technobabble.  

[JudgeGrey]

there is a counter to most situations which is dodge the EMP there really aren't any defenses to the face hugging launch in your face but otherwise you do just as you say you do with the ISM and sorta navigate or move away to some cover. EMP travel at a slow enough rate that you can just sidestep them and if you are by a wall then boost away from it and then aim for your target and kill it

[DFTR]

Hi Judge,

  If you can dodge an EMP, you can more easily dodge a HE charge or Tow.

  I feel it requires less skill to hit w/ an EMP and you procure greater rewards_  I feel like I need to have my EMP-1 on every mech.  Do you feel there is a better offensive item than EMP right now_  

  What do you think of the gameplay aspect of EMP.  I realize it may not effect KDR but I feel frustrated when hit by EMP and then killed; as opposed to being hit by a Detonator and being destroyed which I just shrug off as a good shot.

[Beefsweat]

DFTR, on December 14 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

I propose the EMP disables radar and HUD but the victim can still manually fire weapons_

What you're describing already exists as the ISM. If an EMP-ed user simply had no HUD or radar but could move and shoot back, what would be the point of using it_ Removing the HUD for a few seconds (or even at all) doesn't exactly take away one's ability to accurately fight back. I find being hit with an ISM creates more panic than an EMP as you can't actually see where you're shooting or moving - being hit by an EMP is more of a nuisance than a guaranteed kill.

[StruttingStray]

Personnally, I think the amount of time it effects is too long. Then again if you make it too short, it won't be worth using it.

How about giving it a curve trejectory like the ISM or HE_

[DFTR]

Beefsweat's right; I guess EMP would be same/weaker than ISM if it was changed_
I'm surprised to hear that he feels more panic from being hit w/ ISM; I have to check the duration, but I've usually manage to reposition myself.  I think it is the lack of control from EMP that bothers me more.  Do you prefer ISM to EMP_

I've used ISM and feel EMP is much easier to land a hit.  I've even had the ISM bounce off some invisible barrier and return towards me!
Now w/ Shields, EMP is all the more easier to use/aim.  I don't know if ISM would bounce off a shield or detonate on contact_

@StruttingStray, making it a lobed/trajectory or requiring a direct hit rather than splash hit would go towards making it more of a skilled base shot.  

I guess if there were an item that shut down movement but allowed you to shoot, I'd feel the same about that as EMP.  It seems counter to a FPS game.

[deusex2]

Personally, I loath EMP as much as I loath countermeasures. However, I do believe that it has it's place in Hawken as a disabler/CC. That being said, I do believe that it's still too powerful in it's current state and is a crutch for no-skill players or instrument of domination for skilled ones.

Which is why the more it's nerfed-the better, if you ask me. Hell, at this point I really want it to have no AOE at all.

[Beefsweat]

DFTR, on December 14 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Beefsweat's right; I guess EMP would be same/weaker than ISM if it was changed_
I'm surprised to hear that he feels more panic from being hit w/ ISM; I have to check the duration, but I've usually manage to reposition myself.  I think it is the lack of control from EMP that bothers me more.  Do you prefer ISM to EMP_

Personally I do prefer ISM to EMP, the former is definitely harder to hit than the latter due to an arc trajectory and that incredibly loud BEEP BEEP BEEP but I find in practice that I can cripple or eliminate an enemy who's been hit with an ISM more easily due to my being able to quickly gain a better position and my target having no ability to see where I'm going or hitting them from. 3 out of the last 5 targets I've hit with an ISM all panicked and attempted to flee only to run, boost and plow bullets into walls helplessly. I almost felt bad when I killed them... almost. This is all from my personal experience and I'm sure someone else will be able to weigh in differently.

Edited by Beefsweat, December 14 2013 - 06:52 PM.

[fingerknitter]

I think EMP MKI's duration is fine, I think that increased MK power should NOT increase its duration but instead increase the lifetime of the affected area where the EMP connects.

EX: On frontline, I am at the AA (or where it usually is if in another game mode) and I enter that "tunnel/hallway". As I exit the tunnel, knowing I have a raider on blitz right behind me, I shoot my MKIII EMP at the exit of the hallway/tunnel and for x amount of time both the graphic and effect of the MKI EMP will haunt that exit point. I think its a neat way to control space with a lot more tactical potential than the rather boorish MKIII that we have now...

I personally detest the Detonator and the HE charge, but that's just me.

[ShadowWarg]

EMP is named poorly in my opinion, it force the mech into an over heated stat. Not really something an emp should do.

[Preternatural]

I actually like EMP.

All credits to Hobo for the vid.

EMPs are not OP. At all, really. Their air speed is extremely slow, and the splash is not that large. It takes at least some skill to hit someone with an EMP without being extremely near them (thus EMPing both your enemy and yourself).

They are extremely useful in tight quarters like the tunnels of Origin, and can turn the tide to your favor by allowing one a few seconds of free shots before the enemy can fire back. Also, if you are low on health, it gives one a few seconds to run away without having to fear a secondary in the back.

In summary, EMP is an extremely useful and viable item, but is not OP. A few seconds of not being able to shoot is exactly the same as overheating, except someone else made you overheat. There is a countermeasure to compete with EMP, but really, if you have any sort of reflexes and/or fuel left it is not that hard to dodge an EMP.

[ShadowGTR]

The EMP is a skill-shift item. If two players are equally skilled, the EMP suddenly puts the favor in the user's corner. If, however, there is a difference, it either slightly balances the players if the lesser skilled player uses it and connects, or puts the lesser skilled player at a great disadvantage if he/she gets hit by one. This is where I feel the EMP is at it's worst. It amplifies a skillful player's killing capabilities while only providing a temporary slight balancer for lesser skilled players. If a game is going to provide any award for skill, it needs to not have items that can throw things out of alignment such as this. It can be used as a form of "get out of jail free" card, but often times it is used for offense, or to put an opponent at a disadvantage.

Personally, I highly dislike EMPs. The number of times I've been denied a kill, or been killed due to one is sickening. I also don't use countermeasures, since they are an HC sink and aren't allowed in scrims. But since I doubt EMPs will ever go away, and the countermeasures work towards balancing the economy (so Ive been told), I have just learned to move as much as I can when I do get EMP'd. Despite sayings of "its easy to dodge because its slow", eventually everyone will get tagged by one when they are on the tail end of their dodge while trying to avoid a TOW while in close combat.

Edited by ShadowGTR, December 16 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[UK_SPAWN]

Emp n ism is good.
Nuff said.
End.
Null
Void arguments
No passbacks

[HugeGuts]

Considering the face hugging currently dominating game play, 4+ seconds of worry free hugging >>> Any other offensive item.

The Disruptor is what the EMP should have been in the first place.

Edited by HugeGuts, December 25 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[CounterlogicMan]

Shield in fact does counter EMP. EMP also counters shield. They really just cancel each other out, whats so OP about that_

Btw all items are "skill shift". That is the whole point, to give you an advantage over another player. The way in which each item does that is different. A skilled player will always increase his ability to kill, or survive, other players with item use, that is part of the reason why he is labeled a SKILLED player as opposed to an average or below average player, who will undoubtably have less effective item use or will use the item to try and even the playing field or supplement mistakes. As I stated, pushing or creating an advantage, it is kind of the whole point of having items.

Chances are the majority of times you are being EMPd is when you try and throw down your shield in a greedy position, when you are about to kill the person, you are or are near a tech, or if you are clustered up with your team. AKA people using EMP against you in situations which it is highly effective.

So my suggestion to you guys that are struggling fighting people with EMP is to use it yourself and take note of when you are most likely to use it. Now switch back to your regular items and keep a note in the back of your mind of when you are most likely to have an EMP lobbed at you, just as you probably already have an idea of when other items are going to be used (det, turret, shield, repair charge etc).

Sorry if my post seemed mean or pretentious but I am getting a bit worried about how many people complain about the EMP and ask for nerfs when the EMP DOES NOT need nerfed in any sense of the word.

[The_Silencer]

Besides the EMP could be manually detonated as the Det and also having an acceleration rate to make it useful in the mid-long and long ranges... would not be a terrible idea to allow the prey to use his/her weapons (in the same way as items) after the last half of the EMP's effects. Not a bad idea.. for now and at this very moment...

That is : Having no radar -and no HUD- and being not able of firing back for half the time of its effects sound like pretty good to me; I've to admit it.

[HugeGuts]

The solution is simple - Give deployable items a larger role in combat, then make it so the EMP only affects items and give it a shorter cool down. The EMP is now a counter to item nests. Bam! I just fixed the EMP.

Edited by HugeGuts, December 30 2013 - 09:11 PM.

[LordTemujin]

HugeGuts, on December 30 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

The solution is simple - Give deployable items a larger role in combat, then make it so the EMP only affects items and give it a shorter cool down. The EMP is now a counter to item nests. Bam! I just fixed the EMP.

This would be acceptable if it actually countered items. If my EMP is going to be limited to only effecting items, it had better DAMN WELL BE ABLE TO DROP THE INFINIBUBBLE fuzzy bunny that TDM is becoming.

Right now it barely scratches it.

If you want to complain about something, complain about a free 300HP bubble that lets your opponent ignore everything you do. It is supposed to stop bullet damage not be an instant !IWIN button.

[The_Silencer]

At least you can use items right now...

[DFTR]

The_Silencer, on December 31 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

At least you can use items right now...

What do you mean_  Is your '1' or '2' key stuck

@HugeGuts, I like your suggestion.  

@LordTemujin, I agree that the Shield also is problematic in TDM; especially the bubble shield mechs.  In DM it's not quite so dominating as good players can steal the shield or as is common EMP it.  But yeah, HE Charge or Tow (even a 4slot version) won't knock down a shield compared to the 2-slot EMP.

BTW, I use both EMP/Shield b/c I feel they are so good; but I want to try using ISM/barrier once I can get some practice w/ it.