Atmos_Dwagon, on February 20 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:
OmegaNull, on February 19 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:
I will put this here:
*snip*
I haven't been playing for terribly long, but that was phenomenal usage of terrain and corners with the Flak, and it's making me regret my Brawler purchase less.
Based on my experience with it on the Bruiser, the Vulcan seems like a poor choice when you have something with more burst available, unless you're running some sort of sustained close-range offense on a team.
Perhaps I just missed it, but it seems that you never used turret mode. In your experience, is it bad in general, or was that a consequence of the gametype_
I know I'm not the one in that video, but I can answer from my perspective: It's very rare in my experience that turret mode extends life as much as artful dodging and proper positioning. It's just easy to become overwhelmed since you can't reposition easily, and fighting more than one enemy is a losing proposition because one can just slip behind you for the extra damage. There are still circumstances where it can be useful, especially with team support, but... I dunno. I've just never had much success with it (or needed it to be successful).
To be fair, I've been trained to never touch it. It's much better than it used to be, but for the majority of my experience with Hawken, it has been a death sentence to press "F" in a Type-C. Every now and then I see another player use it to good effect and think maybe... but then I try it and I just end up stuck in a bad spot, dying quickly. You really need a stable group around you (no flighty A-mechs that dash off the moment an enemy looks at them wrong) or you just get swarmed.
I know I'm not the one in that video, but I can answer from my perspective: It's very rare in my experience that turret mode extends life as much as artful dodging and proper positioning. It's just easy to become overwhelmed since you can't reposition easily, and fighting more than one enemy is a losing proposition because one can just slip behind you for the extra damage. There are still circumstances where it can be useful, especially with team support, but... I dunno. I've just never had much success with it (or needed it to be successful).
To be fair, I've been trained to never touch it. It's much better than it used to be, but for the majority of my experience with Hawken, it has been a death sentence to press "F" in a Type-C. Every now and then I see another player use it to good effect and think maybe... but then I try it and I just end up stuck in a bad spot, dying quickly. You really need a stable group around you (no flighty A-mechs that dash off the moment an enemy looks at them wrong) or you just get swarmed.
That's what I figured. It's seems pretty worthless except as a limited team fight option where you're baiting gutsy A-classes into tight quarters.
I did a recent pub run, where I had an Infiltrator and Predator as backup during a siege map (can't remember the name of the stage; it's the big city with the AA tower in the middle), and I kept popping in and out in turret form under the AA awning.
The enemy rotated between Freds, Scouts and Berserkers (with the odd Reaper), but no matter what they did, they kept running face first into my teammates' grenade fire and mines. My Brawler got trashed pretty bad in each exchange, but they lost more than they took each time thanks to that armor regen mode on the turret. (I'll gladly trade 1 mech for 3 and territorial control).
For more open maps and other modes though, I'm definitely not touching F in any C-Class. It just gets me killed.
I saw this before and while you did well, those players you were up against had absolutely no idea that they could simply keep a distance from you and wreck you from afar. It would be a game of fat cat and mouse.
You tell me how often do you think things would go so well for the Brawler like in that video_ What about other game modes and being up against A/B mechs that know exactly what they are doing_
I can safely say that I regularly play against people who know what they are doing in A's and B's. I usually do so using Brawler. Sometimes, you can't run or create space without dying, and the Brawler is part of making that happen. If you are constantly falling back worrying about the Brawler (who with any sort of skill won't be taking much more damage than you are), you're going to get stuck in a really bad position and the rest of the team is going to punish that hard. Even without a Tech backing it up, it's a mainstay of high-level play, and with good reason. Highest health pool in the game plus Flak/TOW_ You don't need incredible mobility to make that work out.
What do you think about the suppression factor from Vulcan_
I find it's better in random games, without coordinated teams.
I've never been very successful with the Vulcan on any mech. It doesn't pair very well with my preferred playstyle (a lot of peekaboo) and the spin-up time always seems to mess me up. Along with that, Flak and Vulcan overlap heavily in effective range, so I'd rather have the front-loaded damage, and it's easier for me to manage heat on Flak as well. Perhaps the biggest issue with the Vulcan that I have is that since the Brawler is so incredibly slow, it's fairly easy to kite. Having burst damage is essential in my opinion to capitalize on the short moments you have sight of a fleeing enemy. All in all, for most maps, I find Flak is preferable and plays most to the mech's strengths and shores up the most weaknesses. If you're playing a long-range game focusing around poking (e.g. you're playing on Last Eco), the SA Hawkins has far superior damage output at those ranges and so is the better choice (though lately I've just been playing Incinerator on the longer-range maps).
Which isn't to say the Vulcan is bad or anything. A lot of my viewpoint comes from preference and practice, as the Flak is what I'm most familiar with. Truth be told, I've never faced what I consider to be a truly great Brawler using Vulcan (admittedly, proper use of the Vulcan doesn't exactly utilize much finesse), but that doesn't mean it can't be so.
Apologies if I come off as patronizing: I don't know how much experience you have with Brawler (or the game in general), but if it isn't that much, I can vouch for using a sustained weapon until you learn the ropes. For most of my time leveling my Brawler, I used the SA Hawkins because I couldn't hit anything with Flak. Once I got used to moving with the Brawler, I revisited the Flak on the recommendation of another player and never looked back. It just works really well with the mech.
I started with the Flak and changed to Vulcan.
I admit I wasn't that good with the Flak, and used to play on US servers as European, having 100 ping and being unable to hit faster mechs.
Now that I play on UK servers thing are better (example: I can reliably hit with TOW). So maybe now I might use the Flak decently.
Problem is I still have no confidence with the map, and often end up banging against walls instead of dodging.
Another problem is that sometimes I get teamed with people who are all into staying grouped up at the longest distance possible, while the enemy can easily flank and slaughter them. In those situations, I can't go short range without getting overrun, and even guarding my allies brings me in the same situation.
Considering I can't choose my allies, Vulcan helps me with its longer range.
Said that, I really hope one day I'll be able to use Flak well.xD
I've had moderate to great success with the Brawler running SA Hawkins. Granted terribad for 1v1, but it is superb in defending AA in Siege, very hard to uproot and can dish out stable damage to enemies thinking of coming close.
Just hunker in your bunker and let it rip. The Hawkins does surprisingly good dmg to unaware foes if you can hit, and while playing with the Hawkins, you don't really want to be right in the middle of it all, but more on the side when they do finally grow balls and make the push.
You can then just pick them off or keep acting a bullet sponge.
Mind is like a parachute, it only works if it's open
This mech needs to be changed to a B class and its special ability is an activated healing otherwise just remove this piece of junk and give me back my credits.
This mech needs to be changed to a B class and its special ability is an activated healing otherwise just remove this piece of junk and give me back my credits.
Brawler is currently in its most balanced form, imo. It still requires thought before engaging in combat due to its slowiness, but if you can aim your shots well, it's extremely deadly (especially with Flak). Keep practicing.
I say it's time to switch it up: Give the Brawler the Corsair as its secondary. Too many mechs have the tow, I don't see why the Raider gets to be special. The dual fire modes would give the brawler at least a FEW options when deciding how to commit itself to combat. Go SA Hawkins and lob shots in at the enemy or switch to secondary mode with the Flak and move in for some insanely delicious burst damage.
In any firefight, the best way to ensure survivability is to to reduce your enemy count to as close to 1 as possible. The combo of Flak and KLA-Corsair would allow the Brawler to literally blow away any mech that decided to get to close, ensuring that the Brawler can hold position as no one would want to get too close (which would in turn make its turret mode at least a bit more viable).
I say it's time to switch it up: Give the Brawler the Corsair as its secondary. Too many mechs have the tow, I don't see why the Raider gets to be special. The dual fire modes would give the brawler at least a FEW options when deciding how to commit itself to combat. Go SA Hawkins and lob shots in at the enemy or switch to secondary mode with the Flak and move in for some insanely delicious burst damage.
Can I have the Breacher on my Raider then_ I don't see why the Predator gets to be special.
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Atmos_Dwagon, on February 20 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:
