LarryLaffer, on December 27 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:
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there are _very_ few situations where turret mode is preferable to being mobile
It can be applied to all C-class mechs. Actually I find brawler's turret mode quite useful. I peeked some techniques with it from MexichanMan's stream, tried it and can say that turret mode really can save life in some cases
maybe, I'll never say _totally_ useless because even I've benefitted from its use once or twice
however, that's part of my point: it's not useful anything like enough, particularly compared to the other mech abilities
you don't want to give the biggest mechs in the game a highly situational ability that only a few people can manage to eek anything useful out of
it needs to be a clear and material benefit that befits the primary play style of that mech, like all of the other abilities in the game that are considered to be useful
"To the untrained eye this chart may indeed appear to demonstrate a steep and sustained downward trend; however, what you're actually seeing is the line being dragged down because of the strengthening gravitational pull of a player base that is actually increasing in density. Rest assured, this is all going completely according to plan."
From my personal experience, I find the Brawlers turret mode more useful as a mobile repair mode than a combat trick. I still use it in combat, but it's very situational and less effective against veteran players.
Once I built around the ability, I found that I hardly ever have to repair normally in my Brawler. This is probably why the Brawlers ability feels weak. Healing in combat is very powerful, and since there are internals and items that let you heal in combat (and the Tech), the Brawlers ability could easily become OP if the numbers are to high.
I test adv.reconstruction on brawler/rocketeer early. His not help in fight, but C-class with a.r. Repair like a-class (with repair charge you repairing with lighting speed). It very good for whole combat. You total time in fight increase on 10-15%. Very useful for brawler. But useless if you team have a tech =D.
I test adv.reconstruction on brawler/rocketeer early. His not help in fight, but C-class with a.r. Repair like a-class (with repair charge you repairing with lighting speed). It very good for whole combat. You total time in fight increase on 10-15%. Very useful for brawler. But useless if you team have a tech =D.
reconstructor works with the sa hawkins because you engage at long range and can disengage at will. When used with turret mode you have incredibly high healing out of combat. With the armor fusor you have continuous healing as long as you are getting assists or kills (the former being really easy with the hawkins).
I use the adv repair kit and extractor on my main flak brawler because it offers better healing when not in turret mode. The recon+fusor combo only really works with turret mode to get that little bit extra healing that gives them enemy team headaches.
I have gotten accustomed to flak brawlin on all maps these days even the open ones. I like how it feels so big and tanky, the buffs to walk speed made a difference.
To get it to where it should be I think the dodge cooldown needs to be the lowest of the Cs to compliment its cqc while keeping its slow walk and boost. I think thats fair.
Its still far too easy to hit with emps and dets unless the players are super bad. You essentially cant dodge them in a brawler because of its speed and hitbox.
Keep the brawler but remove turret mode, keep the large panales on top and give it better overhead defence, give it the ability to generate a bubble shield OR be like a fat raider.
Right now, a turretmode brawler with flack can outright kill a pred 1v1 because the pred will overheat first. (which is pretty much the case with pred in all 1v1 tbh)
Remember all those A classes being able to dodge out of your sight or jump above you because you had to be that close to effectively hit those tiny hitboxes_
Well, Point-D Vulcan has a higher effective range, which also helps with engaging the enemy with less risk of getting surrounded by the enemy because your allies decided to leave you behind.
It's easier to keep track of the enemy movements.
And... has higher DPS. Which is even more important with reduced armor. And let's remember that the armor difference between A and C is even wider (Light classes lost around 40% of their armor, heavy classes lost around 25%).
Well, with the new patch I tried Point-D Vulcan.
[snip]
Remember all those A classes being able to dodge out of your sight or jump above you because you had to be that close to effectively hit those tiny hitboxes_
Well, Point-D Vulcan has a higher effective range, which also helps with engaging the enemy with less risk of getting surrounded by the enemy because your allies decided to leave you behind.
It's easier to keep track of the enemy movements.
And... has higher DPS. Which is even more important with reduced armor. And let's remember that the armor difference between A and C is even wider (Light classes lost around 40% of their armor, heavy classes lost around 25%).
What's not to like_XD
The fact that the Zerker has a Vulcan, damage amp ability, and can easily vault over your head with 42 Air Dynamics.
I have problems with heavies sometimes in my Zerker, Brawler is a small bump compared to the rest.
It's a Scout that can't move.
Brawler is the first mech I bought based entirely on the description of the mech.
I call it fuzzy bunny. The mech plays NOTHING like the description.
This mech is garbage. It is an obsolete piece of fuzzy bunny in this new meta where people play poke and dodge from distance.
1) A competent brawler can do absolutely NOTHING against competent A/B classes because competent A/B players knows the weakness of the brawler and know how to exploit the hell out of it.
2) Turret ability is a joke. It might as well be non-existent. Competent A/B classes knows how to fuzzy bunny you over so badly you wish you never bought this mech.
I like Brawler. Use flac. A-mechs fall to pieces from "one or two" shots. Speed is enough for The С-class. Turret mode use to move on the map and heal at the same time. Almost never use dron - enough of special abilities.
slightly more walkspeed but thats about it.. the damage and tankiness seems to be fine though, just requires some small tactics and not full blown running in
Well, with the new patch I tried Point-D Vulcan.
[snip]
Remember all those A classes being able to dodge out of your sight or jump above you because you had to be that close to effectively hit those tiny hitboxes_
Well, Point-D Vulcan has a higher effective range, which also helps with engaging the enemy with less risk of getting surrounded by the enemy because your allies decided to leave you behind.
It's easier to keep track of the enemy movements.
And... has higher DPS. Which is even more important with reduced armor. And let's remember that the armor difference between A and C is even wider (Light classes lost around 40% of their armor, heavy classes lost around 25%).
What's not to like_XD
The fact that the Zerker has a Vulcan, damage amp ability, and can easily vault over your head with 42 Air Dynamics.
I have problems with heavies sometimes in my Zerker, Brawler is a small bump compared to the rest.
It's a Scout that can't move.
It depends on how you get them.
As a Brawler, you have to capitalize on the Vulcan increased effective range to engage the enemies on a safer distance. This way by the time the zerker goes above your head you just need a little bump and it becomes scrap metal. Sure, they have the ability that increases damage (which, if I remember well, now increases damage by 13%). But you have 2.4 times their health.
And IMHO Hovering when they come near you might be useful for countering their vaulting. Our goal here is to make the fight on even ground, so that our superior hps count the most.
Flak is useless against guys with small hitboxes vaulting all over the place in front of you, IMHO.
The real problem is that C-Class and hugging distance don't go well together.
Just... don't use the Vulcan in fight clubs around pillars, for it's more of a peakaboo game.
I saw this before and while you did well, those players you were up against had absolutely no idea that they could simply keep a distance from you and wreck you from afar. It would be a game of fat cat and mouse.
You tell me how often do you think things would go so well for the Brawler like in that video_ What about other game modes and being up against A/B mechs that know exactly what they are doing_
I saw this before and while you did well, those players you were up against had absolutely no idea that they could simply keep a distance from you and wreck you from afar. It would be a game of fat cat and mouse.
You tell me how often do you think things would go so well for the Brawler like in that video_ What about other game modes and being up against A/B mechs that know exactly what they are doing_
I can safely say that I regularly play against people who know what they are doing in A's and B's. I usually do so using Brawler. Sometimes, you can't run or create space without dying, and the Brawler is part of making that happen. If you are constantly falling back worrying about the Brawler (who with any sort of skill won't be taking much more damage than you are), you're going to get stuck in a really bad position and the rest of the team is going to punish that hard. Even without a Tech backing it up, it's a mainstay of high-level play, and with good reason. Highest health pool in the game plus Flak/TOW_ You don't need incredible mobility to make that work out.
I saw this before and while you did well, those players you were up against had absolutely no idea that they could simply keep a distance from you and wreck you from afar. It would be a game of fat cat and mouse.
You tell me how often do you think things would go so well for the Brawler like in that video_ What about other game modes and being up against A/B mechs that know exactly what they are doing_
I can safely say that I regularly play against people who know what they are doing in A's and B's. I usually do so using Brawler. Sometimes, you can't run or create space without dying, and the Brawler is part of making that happen. If you are constantly falling back worrying about the Brawler (who with any sort of skill won't be taking much more damage than you are), you're going to get stuck in a really bad position and the rest of the team is going to punish that hard. Even without a Tech backing it up, it's a mainstay of high-level play, and with good reason. Highest health pool in the game plus Flak/TOW_ You don't need incredible mobility to make that work out.
What do you think about the suppression factor from Vulcan_
I find it's better in random games, without coordinated teams.
I saw this before and while you did well, those players you were up against had absolutely no idea that they could simply keep a distance from you and wreck you from afar. It would be a game of fat cat and mouse.
You tell me how often do you think things would go so well for the Brawler like in that video_ What about other game modes and being up against A/B mechs that know exactly what they are doing_
I can safely say that I regularly play against people who know what they are doing in A's and B's. I usually do so using Brawler. Sometimes, you can't run or create space without dying, and the Brawler is part of making that happen. If you are constantly falling back worrying about the Brawler (who with any sort of skill won't be taking much more damage than you are), you're going to get stuck in a really bad position and the rest of the team is going to punish that hard. Even without a Tech backing it up, it's a mainstay of high-level play, and with good reason. Highest health pool in the game plus Flak/TOW_ You don't need incredible mobility to make that work out.
What do you think about the suppression factor from Vulcan_
I find it's better in random games, without coordinated teams.
I've never been very successful with the Vulcan on any mech. It doesn't pair very well with my preferred playstyle (a lot of peekaboo) and the spin-up time always seems to mess me up. Along with that, Flak and Vulcan overlap heavily in effective range, so I'd rather have the front-loaded damage, and it's easier for me to manage heat on Flak as well. Perhaps the biggest issue with the Vulcan that I have is that since the Brawler is so incredibly slow, it's fairly easy to kite. Having burst damage is essential in my opinion to capitalize on the short moments you have sight of a fleeing enemy. All in all, for most maps, I find Flak is preferable and plays most to the mech's strengths and shores up the most weaknesses. If you're playing a long-range game focusing around poking (e.g. you're playing on Last Eco), the SA Hawkins has far superior damage output at those ranges and so is the better choice (though lately I've just been playing Incinerator on the longer-range maps).
Which isn't to say the Vulcan is bad or anything. A lot of my viewpoint comes from preference and practice, as the Flak is what I'm most familiar with. Truth be told, I've never faced what I consider to be a truly great Brawler using Vulcan (admittedly, proper use of the Vulcan doesn't exactly utilize much finesse), but that doesn't mean it can't be so.
Apologies if I come off as patronizing: I don't know how much experience you have with Brawler (or the game in general), but if it isn't that much, I can vouch for using a sustained weapon until you learn the ropes. For most of my time leveling my Brawler, I used the SA Hawkins because I couldn't hit anything with Flak. Once I got used to moving with the Brawler, I revisited the Flak on the recommendation of another player and never looked back. It just works really well with the mech.
I haven't been playing for terribly long, but that was phenomenal usage of terrain and corners with the Flak, and it's making me regret my Brawler purchase less.
Based on my experience with it on the Bruiser, the Vulcan seems like a poor choice when you have something with more burst available, unless you're running some sort of sustained close-range offense on a team.
Perhaps I just missed it, but it seems that you never used turret mode. In your experience, is it bad in general, or was that a consequence of the gametype_
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LarryLaffer, on December 27 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:
