55 replies to this topic

[django18]

Mech__Warrior, on February 28 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

django18, on February 28 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

Mech__Warrior, on February 28 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

django18, on February 23 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

hmm...those weapons seems to work for some people, while others can't get used to it.
I'm not sure...
Are the devs going to change the economy model_ I think this would make our lives alot easier. Can't stand the fact that I have to play 15-20 games just to buy a weapon that may not even be worth the grind.

Why should they change the economy model_  You have to think from a business perspective.  They are trying to make money from this game.  If people don't like the "grind", or aren't playing just to have fun (part of the problem... change your viewpoint), then they can spend the money to unlock it early.  You can't expect it to be handed to you.  This is a business.  If you don't have the money, then you can afford to have the patience.

You know, I've head this kind answer a lot. But when a game is such a huge grind WHY should I even spend money on it_ Not gonna happen. Ever. I would most likely just stop playing the game alltogether. I am certainly willing to spend money on a game that has a balanced, fair economy. Hawken doesn't have that at the moment. So, from a "buisness pespective", I think it would be much more lucrative for the developers to balance out the economy, because if they won't, I'm sure they will lose A LOT of potential customers and players eventually.

God, 15-20 games.  What a murderous ordeal.  Keep in mind it's also a game, and have fun.

It would be perfectly fine if we could get an opportunity to actually TEST the weapon. I'd love to play even 50 games when I know that the gun I'm going to buy fits my playstyle. But if i don't konw how the gun works, then yes, 15-20 is way too much and I don't see it being fun at all. This is the reason why I started this topic.
Btw, thanks for all the answers so far!

[Mech__Warrior]

django18, on March 01 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Mech__Warrior, on February 28 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

django18, on February 28 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

Mech__Warrior, on February 28 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

django18, on February 23 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

hmm...those weapons seems to work for some people, while others can't get used to it.
I'm not sure...
Are the devs going to change the economy model_ I think this would make our lives alot easier. Can't stand the fact that I have to play 15-20 games just to buy a weapon that may not even be worth the grind.

Why should they change the economy model_  You have to think from a business perspective.  They are trying to make money from this game.  If people don't like the "grind", or aren't playing just to have fun (part of the problem... change your viewpoint), then they can spend the money to unlock it early.  You can't expect it to be handed to you.  This is a business.  If you don't have the money, then you can afford to have the patience.

You know, I've head this kind answer a lot. But when a game is such a huge grind WHY should I even spend money on it_ Not gonna happen. Ever. I would most likely just stop playing the game alltogether. I am certainly willing to spend money on a game that has a balanced, fair economy. Hawken doesn't have that at the moment. So, from a "buisness pespective", I think it would be much more lucrative for the developers to balance out the economy, because if they won't, I'm sure they will lose A LOT of potential customers and players eventually.

God, 15-20 games.  What a murderous ordeal.  Keep in mind it's also a game, and have fun.

It would be perfectly fine if we could get an opportunity to actually TEST the weapon. I'd love to play even 50 games when I know that the gun I'm going to buy fits my playstyle. But if i don't konw how the gun works, then yes, 15-20 is way too much and I don't see it being fun at all. This is the reason why I started this topic.
Btw, thanks for all the answers so far!

Well, it certainly would be great in life to be able to enjoy all the things we purchase, and dip your toes in the water.  It just doesn't happen with everything,  You just have to bite the bullet sometimes.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

I (edit:  arguably) mastered the EOC Infil last summer.

I prefer the HEAT Infil (and HEAT Scout, but because it's a bigger challenge than Mini-Flak Scout).

HEAT has bloom you can use around corners - it's like a very fast, focused TOW (or grenade). It's MUCH easier to hit flying targets with it than EOC.

EOC, when we had slightly higher health pools, was a master's weapon. Flirt with appearing, lure your enemy around a corner to step on mines while circling to herd him with grenades back into your EOC + Det (or alteratively, pepper him with flat-trajectory EOC and drop a grenade around a corner when he ducks).  

It was immensely satisfying to be a cat toying with a mouse.  

The issues came when the mouse could shoot back and hit you, regardless of how you jinked.

Many new guys won't recognize true masters (and mistresses) of the EOC (yet), but if you get into a match where you're dying and you just don't know why... look to see if the EOC is killing you.

HEAT is more reliable for me against really skilled players.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, March 02 2014 - 01:12 PM.

[django18]

Mech__Warrior, on March 01 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

django18, on March 01 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Mech__Warrior, on February 28 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

django18, on February 28 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

Mech__Warrior, on February 28 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

django18, on February 23 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

hmm...those weapons seems to work for some people, while others can't get used to it.
I'm not sure...
Are the devs going to change the economy model_ I think this would make our lives alot easier. Can't stand the fact that I have to play 15-20 games just to buy a weapon that may not even be worth the grind.

Why should they change the economy model_  You have to think from a business perspective.  They are trying to make money from this game.  If people don't like the "grind", or aren't playing just to have fun (part of the problem... change your viewpoint), then they can spend the money to unlock it early.  You can't expect it to be handed to you.  This is a business.  If you don't have the money, then you can afford to have the patience.

You know, I've head this kind answer a lot. But when a game is such a huge grind WHY should I even spend money on it_ Not gonna happen. Ever. I would most likely just stop playing the game alltogether. I am certainly willing to spend money on a game that has a balanced, fair economy. Hawken doesn't have that at the moment. So, from a "buisness pespective", I think it would be much more lucrative for the developers to balance out the economy, because if they won't, I'm sure they will lose A LOT of potential customers and players eventually.

God, 15-20 games.  What a murderous ordeal.  Keep in mind it's also a game, and have fun.

It would be perfectly fine if we could get an opportunity to actually TEST the weapon. I'd love to play even 50 games when I know that the gun I'm going to buy fits my playstyle. But if i don't konw how the gun works, then yes, 15-20 is way too much and I don't see it being fun at all. This is the reason why I started this topic.
Btw, thanks for all the answers so far!

Well, it certainly would be great in life to be able to enjoy all the things we purchase, and dip your toes in the water.  It just doesn't happen with everything,  You just have to bite the bullet sometimes.

Comparing the game with the real life just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Neither the gameplay reflects that, nor should the game mechanics/economy... It's a GAME.

[Mech__Warrior]

django18, on March 10 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

Mech__Warrior, on March 01 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

django18, on March 01 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Mech__Warrior, on February 28 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

django18, on February 28 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

Mech__Warrior, on February 28 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

django18, on February 23 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

hmm...those weapons seems to work for some people, while others can't get used to it.
I'm not sure...
Are the devs going to change the economy model_ I think this would make our lives alot easier. Can't stand the fact that I have to play 15-20 games just to buy a weapon that may not even be worth the grind.

Why should they change the economy model_  You have to think from a business perspective.  They are trying to make money from this game.  If people don't like the "grind", or aren't playing just to have fun (part of the problem... change your viewpoint), then they can spend the money to unlock it early.  You can't expect it to be handed to you.  This is a business.  If you don't have the money, then you can afford to have the patience.

You know, I've head this kind answer a lot. But when a game is such a huge grind WHY should I even spend money on it_ Not gonna happen. Ever. I would most likely just stop playing the game alltogether. I am certainly willing to spend money on a game that has a balanced, fair economy. Hawken doesn't have that at the moment. So, from a "buisness pespective", I think it would be much more lucrative for the developers to balance out the economy, because if they won't, I'm sure they will lose A LOT of potential customers and players eventually.

God, 15-20 games.  What a murderous ordeal.  Keep in mind it's also a game, and have fun.

It would be perfectly fine if we could get an opportunity to actually TEST the weapon. I'd love to play even 50 games when I know that the gun I'm going to buy fits my playstyle. But if i don't konw how the gun works, then yes, 15-20 is way too much and I don't see it being fun at all. This is the reason why I started this topic.
Btw, thanks for all the answers so far!

Well, it certainly would be great in life to be able to enjoy all the things we purchase, and dip your toes in the water.  It just doesn't happen with everything,  You just have to bite the bullet sometimes.

Comparing the game with the real life just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Neither the gameplay reflects that, nor should the game mechanics/economy... It's a GAME.

Sure it makes sense!  This GAME is giving you real life annoyance.  And if you don't like this GAME, you can be vote with your real life feet and pocketbook, and do what you say: "I would most likely just stop playing the game alltogether."  And now, I bid adieu.  Bye bye, it's been real "fun".

[Dethcord]

For now I have 140~~ matches solely on infiltrator with 1900mmr, maybe I'm noob and all but I can't think who can use heat and even worse - EOC over stock rifle in their right mind.

Both those weapons deal less damage then assault rifle, they're much harder to use, and even if you master them - they're very easily dodgable, why AR is undodgable consistent damage at almost any range, and from my experience (of shooting immobile targets, just to be sure), AR does more damage.

Heat cannon can be used to quickly shoot it and dodge to cover, so it can be useful when played smart, but I can't even imagine any use for EOC.

[IareDave]

Dethcord, on March 16 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

For now I have 140~~ matches solely on infiltrator with 1900mmr, maybe I'm noob and all but I can't think who can use heat and even worse - EOC over stock rifle in their right mind.

Both those weapons deal less damage then assault rifle, they're much harder to use, and even if you master them - they're very easily dodgable, why AR is undodgable consistent damage at almost any range, and from my experience (of shooting immobile targets, just to be sure), AR does more damage.

Heat cannon can be used to quickly shoot it and dodge to cover, so it can be useful when played smart, but I can't even imagine any use for EOC.

If you're using AR on an infil you're doing it wrong. If you're going to use a sustain primary a zerker is a much better option. Heat infils are one of the top tier classes and the heat cannon is arguably the best burst primary in the game.

[Dethcord]

IareDave, on March 18 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

If you're using AR on an infil you're doing it wrong. If you're going to use a sustain primary a zerker is a much better option. Heat infils are one of the top tier classes and the heat cannon is arguably the best burst primary in the game.

You don't benefit from burst damage in this game, dps is the only thing that matters. Why would you deal less less reliable burst damage, when you can do more of reliable sustained damage_ Doesn't make sence. It's not like there is some kind of CC or anything.

[IareDave]

Dethcord, on March 18 2014 - 09:13 PM, said:

You don't benefit from burst damage in this game, dps is the only thing that matters. Why would you deal less less reliable burst damage, when you can do more of reliable sustained damage_ Doesn't make sence. It's not like there is some kind of CC or anything.

I believe you're paying too much attention to the numbers associated with the dps from sustained to burst than actually understanding the benefits of having a burst weapon.

[Stingz]

IareDave, on March 18 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

I believe you're paying too much attention to the numbers associated with the dps from sustained to burst than actually understanding the benefits of having a burst weapon.

Burst is much more devastating when jumping someone else, and sustained is much less reliable when people start factoring things like dodging and their own hit rate (hitting 100% rarely happens on air-dodging mechs).

[Dethcord]

Stingz, on March 19 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

IareDave, on March 18 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

I believe you're paying too much attention to the numbers associated with the dps from sustained to burst than actually understanding the benefits of having a burst weapon.

Burst is much more devastating when jumping someone else, and sustained is much less reliable when people start factoring things like dodging and their own hit rate (hitting 100% rarely happens on air-dodging mechs).

Hitting with EOC never happens on air-dodging mechs.

[XyXly]

Mech__Warrior, on February 28 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

It is not a problem.  They are choices.  You're choosing a weapon, vs. another weapon (a.k.a. mech).

I wouldn't pay as much for a satellite navigation system option as I would for a new car

[Phantasmo]

Dethcord, on March 16 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

For now I have 140~~ matches solely on infiltrator with 1900mmr, maybe I'm noob and all but I can't think who can use heat and even worse - EOC over stock rifle in their right mind.

Both those weapons deal less damage then assault rifle, they're much harder to use, and even if you master them - they're very easily dodgable, why AR is undodgable consistent damage at almost any range, and from my experience (of shooting immobile targets, just to be sure), AR does more damage.

Heat cannon can be used to quickly shoot it and dodge to cover, so it can be useful when played smart, but I can't even imagine any use for EOC.

This, this, this.

Why do people keep saying that some weapons need skill and learning curve when the reality is that some weapons are simply not useful_

Try to 1vs1 with the EOC Repeater against a Scout or a Berserker. You are dead.
Landing a shot is very, very difficult. It's not a matter of skill but mere luck: the travel speed is so low that your enemies have plenty of time to air-dodge them.

Shooting to the floor is useless since you enemies will fly.

Face it guys: the EOC repeater lacks burst damage to act as an ambush weapon, and it also lacks rate of fire to act as a sustained weapon.
It would be a very good secondary, but as a primary it fails. A Vulcan or an AR will work much better against ligh mechs.

Firing then hiding then firing again will only work if the other guy is ignoring you.

[Stingz]

EOC Repeater definitely has less use than before with how many people use Air Compressor to make Air Combat viable. Boosting the speed of the EOC pucks (slightly-moderate speed boost) could help since they're quite slow for a primary.

Holding down fire on EOC charges it up and loads more pucks, up to about 6 total.

Edited by Stingz, March 21 2014 - 05:18 AM.

[kazuya989]

EOC is underpowered now for sure,  but still delivers a decent amount of burst, combine with grenade and detonator and it can still deliver a good alpha strike.

Heat cannon is also very effective.

DPS only works if you can continue to hit your target over time,  most good pilots dodge into cover immediately, and duel you from that point.

Now you may only hit them a fraction of the time you fire, so when you do it has to be big burst damage.

[Dethcord]

As an infiltrator I can hit them in the cover with a GL, I don't need that. I need an advantage in face-to-face combat, because often it's not you who impose rules, and often you have to play by enemies' rules. If I'm caught in the open - what to, run for cover_ I'll be dead by then.

Face it, it's not that those weapons "require skill and they will be good", they just suck, plain and simple. This game is not an MMORPG, burst damage doesn't matter.

With AR I can outdamage vulcan mechs at long range, I can finish off fleeing wounded mechs, and I can still kite people around the corners with my GL, I can appear, toss a grenade, and dodge back into cover. With any of secondaries I can't do the same for example.

[Stingz]

Dethcord, on March 21 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

As an infiltrator I can hit them in the cover with a GL, I don't need that. I need an advantage in face-to-face combat, because often it's not you who impose rules, and often you have to play by enemies' rules. If I'm caught in the open - what to, run for cover_ I'll be dead by then.

Face it, it's not that those weapons "require skill and they will be good", they just suck, plain and simple. This game is not an MMORPG, burst damage doesn't matter.

With AR I can outdamage vulcan mechs at long range, I can finish off fleeing wounded mechs, and I can still kite people around the corners with my GL, I can appear, toss a grenade, and dodge back into cover. With any of secondaries I can't do the same for example.

At that point pick up a Bezerker, with the right pilot it will melt just about anything head-on. Abillity is Ballistic Barrage, boosts damage for 5 seconds by about 25-50%. Also fastest flyer in the game, good for chasing down targets and negating cover.
It has the options of SMC, AR, or Vulcan +TOW for your face-melting needs.

Infiltrator with AR like having a Bezerker that's better at escaping fights, it's good, but could be even better.

Edited by Stingz, March 21 2014 - 12:47 PM.

[Dethcord]

Stingz, on March 21 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

Dethcord, on March 21 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

As an infiltrator I can hit them in the cover with a GL, I don't need that. I need an advantage in face-to-face combat, because often it's not you who impose rules, and often you have to play by enemies' rules. If I'm caught in the open - what to, run for cover_ I'll be dead by then.

Face it, it's not that those weapons "require skill and they will be good", they just suck, plain and simple. This game is not an MMORPG, burst damage doesn't matter.

With AR I can outdamage vulcan mechs at long range, I can finish off fleeing wounded mechs, and I can still kite people around the corners with my GL, I can appear, toss a grenade, and dodge back into cover. With any of secondaries I can't do the same for example.

At that point pick up a Bezerker, with the right pilot it will melt just about anything head-on. Abillity is Ballistic Barrage, boosts damage for 5 seconds by about 25-50%. Also fastest flyer in the game, good for chasing down targets and negating cover.
It has the options of SMC, AR, or Vulcan +TOW for your face-melting needs.

Infiltrator with AR like having a Bezerker that's better at escaping fights, it's good, but could be even better.

I just got berzerker and can't wait to get my vulkan. My impression is it's better then infiltrator in everything but fuel tank, but I feel guilty that I play such a noskill mech that doesn't require anything apart from "F" and left click. It's not as bad as G2 Assault, but still.

Tbh it would be better if this game had no "hitscan" weapons at all.

Edited by Dethcord, March 21 2014 - 02:05 PM.

[Eman29]

After some more play time with it, its actually a good weapon.  It's my go to if I see a lot of C classes on the other team, and on certain maps like wreckage.  Laying mines on walls and floors, and playing peak a boo with finesse you can do lethal damage without your opponent even seeing you.  the Weapon is my favorite to use around corners. the problem is the learning curve is brutal

Scout and Zerk are a hard counter, though.

[Stingz]

Dethcord, on March 21 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

I just got berzerker and can't wait to get my vulkan. My impression is it's better then infiltrator in everything but fuel tank, but I feel guilty that I play such a noskill mech that doesn't require anything apart from "F" and left click. It's not as bad as G2 Assault, but still.

Tbh it would be better if this game had no "hitscan" weapons at all.

Facing formidable players you can really feel the low health of the Bezerker, Vulcan is nice but I'm using SMC a whole lot more with all the dodging in the matches I get thrown into.

Good Scouts can challenge a Bezerker quite well, abusing cover and ground speed to maximize their burst weaponry.

Edited by Stingz, March 21 2014 - 06:32 PM.