201 replies to this topic

[AsianJoyKiller]

I keep seeing people saying the grind in Hawken isn't that bad. And many, many of the people I see saying this are those who have lots of time to dedicate to Hawken, as well as are veteran players.

Let's take a look at some numbers.
127 HC per win low average
180 HC per win high average
15 minutes per match average (averaged across all gametypes, excluding co-op)

6408 HC per weapon (2 weapons per mech)
5128-6510 per HC T3 Item (Because the cheaper items are useless)
3846-5128 per HC T2 Item (Because the cheaper items are useless)
T1 Items not listed, as most are free.
1920 HC per 3 Slot Internal
1280 HC per 2 Slot Internal
640 HC per 1 Slot Internal

Cost to unlock all weapons for a mech: 12816 HC
Average cost to buy full set of T2 or higher items: 7397 HC
Average cost to buy full set of internals: 3840 HC

Cost to fully outfit 1 mech: 24053 HC

Cost to fully outfit current roster (w/o Cupcake): 408901 HC
Mech purchase cost included: 570377 HC

Low average grind
Grind time to fully outfit all mechs (w/o any Daily Bonus): 1123 hours (47 days)
Grind time to fully outfit all mechs (with all Daily Bonuses): 1007 hours (42 days)

High average grind
Grind time to fully outfit all mechs (w/o any Daily Bonus): 792 hours (33 days)
Grind time to fully outfit all mechs (with all Daily Bonuses): 735 hours (31 days)

Keep in mind, all these numbers (especially the high average) are extremely optimistic, as they do not account for losing, the wait times between matches, or buying more than 1 set of items and internals.

To get anywhere near these numbers you would need to get back to back matches with minimal wait times, and win constantly.

EDIT: This also assumes you are able to purchase everything right away, and does not account for experience gain.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, March 02 2014 - 02:43 AM.

[DerMax]

These numbers are not extremely optimistic, they are improbable. You can easily multiply them by 1.25 to 1.5 to account for losses. Now add the upcoming G2 mechs and outfits for them and you will get closer to 1,000,000 HC. This is exorbitant compared to other F2P games I have played.

Edited by DerMax, March 02 2014 - 01:29 AM.

[Ker4u]

just donate ^tm

[schwanzlurch]

thanks AJK for playing the number game here...but i come from a time, in which we played games for more than a day...with this massive overflow of different games every month, some people want all ( content / stuff) and right now;  the progression over time and the related rewards are drifting more and more into background and out of sight...

[Ker4u]

schwanzlurch, on March 02 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

thanks AJK for playing the number game here...but i come from a time, in which we played games for more than a day.

wasn't everything accessible from day1 in those fine days_

[DerMax]

AJK, could you please calculate the amount of MC needed for purchasing everything_

[Ker4u]

DerMax, on March 02 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

AJK, could you please calculate the amount of MC needed for purchasing everything_

mc to hc ratio is approximately 1 to 9 so its 63 000 mc~ (450$) _

Edited by Ker4u, March 02 2014 - 01:52 AM.

[Beemann]

Ker4u, on March 02 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

schwanzlurch, on March 02 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

thanks AJK for playing the number game here...but i come from a time, in which we played games for more than a day.

wasn't everything accessible from day1 in those fine days_

And a lot of them had spectate, you could host your own servers, you could make your own mods and you could fix up the HUD if you didn't like it
Heck, the Tribes community went and supported the game all on their own once it went abandonware (This is true for both Starsiege and Tribes 2 AFAIK)

Also I like how there's no middle ground between 1 day and 47 days of straight gameplay (which is more like a year of play for most people)

[schwanzlurch]

Ker4u, on March 02 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

wasn't everything accessible from day1 in those fine days_

in some games...true...but in others you have to run through a bunch of levels/hours to get the bigger gun/ armor/ item...sanity ^^...and you have to jump the hoop over and over again...till it was done...ohh the rage and fustration...and finally delicious success !

[AsianJoyKiller]

schwanzlurch, on March 02 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

Ker4u, on March 02 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

wasn't everything accessible from day1 in those fine days_

in some games...true...but in others you have to run through a bunch of levels/hours to get the bigger gun/ armor/ item...sanity ^^...and you have to jump the hoop over and over again...till it was done...ohh the rage and fustration...and finally delicious success !

And what games would those be_

[Dr_Freeze001]

You have to keep in mind tho, if you want to fully unlock a mech, you don't actually have to grind 47 or 42 days. You can unlock thing one at a time, as many as 2 items a day if you're good. This can lead to the grind "feeling" less long.

People don't think in terms of "I want the full mech" but "I want this item/internal/thingy". And if they play enough they can get that item they want that very same day, wich feels very rewarding and makes them play even more. And playing more means getting more HC and unlocking more things daily and before you know it you've bought everything for that mech.

[Krellus]

I agree its too grindy

[Eman29]

well multiplayer games have A LOT of replay value.  
I got 280 hours on left 4 dead 2, easy.
Then add $10-$60 to the bundles which im sure theyre gonne have that unlock a lot from the start, and the fact that you dont even need every single thing from every single mech, it really isnt that outrageous like you make it sound.

If the grind wasnt rough, thered be no incentive to pay.
And when your running off donations.. well we all know how that goes...

[Beemann]

Eman29, on March 02 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

well multiplayer games have A LOT of replay value.  
I got 280 hours on left 4 dead 2, easy.
Then add $10-$60 to the bundles which im sure theyre gonne have that unlock a lot from the start, and the fact that you dont even need every single thing from every single mech, it really isnt that outrageous like you make it sound.

If the grind wasnt rough, thered be no incentive to pay.
And when your running off donations.. well we all know how that goes...

It's not every single thing from every single mech... it's 1 set of items/internals for each mech
Also to unlock every mech in hawken currently, max them, and put one set of items and internals on them you'd need to nearly quadruple your L4D time
And more stuff will be added by the time you do that. Some of it will most likely be more powerful than a good chunk of the stuff you already have

Dr_Freeze001, on March 02 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

You have to keep in mind tho, if you want to fully unlock a mech, you don't actually have to grind 47 or 42 days. You can unlock thing one at a time, as many as 2 items a day if you're good. This can lead to the grind "feeling" less long.

People don't think in terms of "I want the full mech" but "I want this item/internal/thingy". And if they play enough they can get that item they want that very same day, wich feels very rewarding and makes them play even more. And playing more means getting more HC and unlocking more things daily and before you know it you've bought everything for that mech.

"It feels" != "It is"

[AsianJoyKiller]

Dr_Freeze001, on March 02 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

You have to keep in mind tho, if you want to fully unlock a mech, you don't actually have to grind 47 or 42 days. You can unlock thing one at a time, as many as 2 items a day if you're good. This can lead to the grind "feeling" less long.

People don't think in terms of "I want the full mech" but "I want this item/internal/thingy". And if they play enough they can get that item they want that very same day, wich feels very rewarding and makes them play even more. And playing more means getting more HC and unlocking more things daily and before you know it you've bought everything for that mech.

Let me do a little more math for you.

Let's assume you can only play 2 hours a day. Assuming you constantly win with minimal wait times, it'll take you roughly 24 days to outfit one mech, and you'd only be able to buy the cheaper internals in one session.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, March 02 2014 - 02:16 AM.

[Dr_Freeze001]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 02 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Let me do a little more math for you.

Let's assume you can only play 2 hours a day. Assuming you constantly win with minimal wait times, it'll take you roughly 24 days to outfit one mech, and you'd only be able to buy the cheaper internals in one session.

I see, so by "outfit one mech", you mean buy one set of internals. My bad, I didn't understand.

Also, it is assumed in your topic that you CAN buy every internal, meaning that you have to be pilot level 30. Getting to that level in itself is quite a grind.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Dr_Freeze001, on March 02 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 02 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Let me do a little more math for you.

Let's assume you can only play 2 hours a day. Assuming you constantly win with minimal wait times, it'll take you roughly 24 days to outfit one mech, and you'd only be able to buy the cheaper internals in one session.

I see, so by "outfit one mech", you mean buy one set of internals. My bad, I didn't understand.

Also, it is assumed in your topic that you CAN buy every internal, meaning that you have to be pilot level 30. Getting to that level in itself is quite a grind.

Correct. I did not account for the XP grind.

[Dr_Freeze001]

You're right, this looks like quite a mountain to climb.

[schwanzlurch]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 02 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

schwanzlurch, on March 02 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

Ker4u, on March 02 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

wasn't everything accessible from day1 in those fine days_

in some games...true...but in others you have to run through a bunch of levels/hours to get the bigger gun/ armor/ item...sanity ^^...and you have to jump the hoop over and over again...till it was done...ohh the rage and fustration...and finally delicious success !

And what games would those be_

hmm...i would like to generalize both ways here with two games everybody knows (  based on skill and reaction time )...quake arena: everything is on the table...grab weapon... search & destroy  - Contra: embrace the progress...start, charge, die...try again

[Beemann]

schwanzlurch, on March 02 2014 - 02:33 AM, said:

hmm...i would like to generalize both ways here with two games everybody knows (  based on skill and reaction time )...quake arena: everything is on the table...grab weapon... search & destroy  - Contra: embrace the progress...start, charge, die...try again

Except in Contra you earn everything in gameplay. You don't start off a new game of Contra with whatever gun you want
You also don't play it against other people, unless you're counting speedruns in which everyone starts off on even footing